Tracy  00:00

By the year 2025, which is just two and a half years away, there will be 1 billion women in the menopause transition. That's a massive market. So anyone that's in the fitness industry, freaking get upgraded, because not only is that a huge amount of women, that's a lot of women that pay for their own health, happy to buy, you know, happy to pay for gym memberships, more than happy to have a personal trainer three days a week, but they won't pay for a personal trainer who doesn't know their situation.

Will:  00:31

Hey, it's Will and welcome to a Group Fitness Real Talk. Today's episode is about something that is extremely important to anyone that works in the fitness industry and is also super timely. So at SH1FT Fitness, we like to make sure we are giving our instructors what they want in terms of education, product, and also the topics they want to hear about on this podcast. We did our global instructor survey recently. And we were really stunned by the number of instructors who really wanted to hear more about menopause, hormones and the impact of these on people and on us as fitness instructors. And I thought well, I don't think I'm the best person to be giving advice on this specific topic. But I know who is. My friend and colleague and a previous guest, Episode 12 of this podcast, is Tracy Minnoch. And in that podcast, she talked about Studio Fitness in Your 50s. Since we recorded that Tracy has gone on to create Sexy Ageing, which is an amazing resource that is focused around menopause. And as you're gonna hear on the show, menopause isn't just one day, it's not just one thing. It is a process that half the population is going to go through at some point. And it is something that I have to admit I'm pretty stunned I knew so little about. I learned so much from this episode and it was completely serendipitous and fortuitous that it just happened to be that we had planned to release this episode today on World Menopause Day. So no matter when you're listening to this, you're either thinking that's super relevant to me, or this is not something that's relevant to me right now. However, don't switch off because as a fitness instructor, this is something you need to know about. Whether or not you will personally go through this process, your class members will and having a base level of understanding that allows you to be a more compassionate and sympathetic instructor will also allow you to be more empathetic and to create better connections with your classes. This show is all about making you a better Instructor. And as you're going to hear from Tracy, menopause is a process that changes the way people interact with fitness. I'm really glad that we managed to get this episode dropping in World Menopause Month and I'm also really appreciative to Tracy for taking the time to explain this process to me so that I can be a better instructor. So that's enough talking from me, onto the show. Tracy, how are you?

Tracy  02:58

I'm good. Thanks Will, thanks for having me back. I think like the last time we did an interview together, I was absolutely terrified. I didn't know very much about podcasting. You know, since then I've gone on to do a podcast. And now it's like, oh, it's like catching up with a friend. I'm gonna have this conversation. It's really cool.

Will:  03:17

100%. So Tracy was on Episode 12, which you're welcome to go back to a somewhat related topic to what we're talking about today, it was on the studio fitness in your 50s. And what we probably didn't talk about on the podcast that we had a little chat about after we finished recording was that Tracy, you were planning a bit of a pivot into something new, including a podcast and a whole lot of other resources that we're going to talk about. And so it's so exciting to have you back to be able to talk about the thing that you were planning on doing and getting ready for the last time that we had this conversation.

Tracy  03:47

Yeah, I'm actually just reflecting on what we did speak about Will, and it's something that's still close to my heart, it's how do you stay relevant in the industry, you know, past the age of 50. And there's actually some real challenges with that, that I've found out for myself personally, through my own journey, but also talking to a lot more woman in the industry. And I talked to women every day about this particular topic, which is menopause, the M word. And it's kind of my gig now and I've fallen down the rabbit hole of everything to do with it. And I've but you've mentioned the word pivot I've kind of taken on, you know, the science and the background of how to manage menopause and put it into a fitness concept, wellness concept, I cover nutrition, how to train, how to race, how to recover, how to deal with stress, you know, basically across all the foundations of wellness. And when I talked to you last time, the only thing that I had kind of in my mind, which I thought would be kind of cool would be a podcast. Since then it's like run off with me and it's become my life, it is my life. Oh, yeah.

Will:  05:01

That's super awesome. So I'm going to say right at the outset that this is a topic on which I have absolutely zero expertise. So I'm going to be asking Tracy to explain everything that you want to know. And I'm going to ask for your forgiveness if I ask any dumb questions, but I'm going to play the part of the room of the man that doesn't know anything about this topic. And seeing as our listeners are both male and female, I think this will be great, because there'll be a lot of people listening that will have an intimate knowledge of this topic. There are a lot of people who will want to know more, and people like me who won't be going through it themselves. But we'll definitely be interacting with people in this context, and would really benefit from knowing this information. So if I jump in with any dumb questions, forgive me. But I think it's quite useful to make sure that even the most sort of basic questions are asked, but I just wanted to kind of hand over the floor to you, Tracy. So why don't you tell the listeners a little bit about what you do with sexy ageing and all the different resources? Obviously, you've touched on a bit, and then we're just going to jump straight into what is menopause? Because I think that is just the first question that I would love to cover.

Tracy  06:00

Yeah, great. So I just want to say, you know, you don't have any personal experience with menopause. But if you have a sister, or a mom or an aunt, then you actually do have a personal relationship with it. Because while you're not may not have had any conversation with those women in your lives, they're actually going through it. Now. A big part of that is no one is talking about it right. Or there's very limited discussion.

Will:  06:25

Up until recently, right? 

Tracy  06:26

Now it's like, TRENDING. Yeah, I know, I'm so excited. And I'm just happened to be in one of the hottest trends right now. That's no pun intended. But so with when it comes to menopause, that's one of the interesting things is, most women will enter menopause without any idea that that's actually what's happening to them. And so before menopause, we would have a normal menstrual cycle, and estrogen would go down and progesterone would go up. Those are the two six hormones that help you have a normal menstrual cycle. And you know, if an egg is fertilized, so you get pregnant, and if it's not, then you'd have a period, right? So that's generally how your menstrual periods work. One, one to two women out of 10 will have some challenges with those menstrual cycles. They might have, you know, endometriosis, or PCOS. These are all things that I've learned about as well. So there are some challenges with them having regular cycles. Now, when you come into perimenopause, those six hormones have a radical shift. So progesterone doesn't die, but it's slow. It goes down slowly. Think of progesterone like cannabis.

Will:  07:46

Okay, that's not where I thought you were going with that.

Tracy  07:49

Yeah, I just sort of like to make it kind of easy for people to understand. So if you've ever you know, smoked cannabis, it's the one that makes you feel good. It makes you feel relaxed. It helps you sleep at night. So that's what progesterone is rollers and a woman's body. And so it's the one that decreases. Well, it's decreasing slowly over time. It doesn't have radical shifts. Now the next one, estrogen just goes on this crazy roller coaster. Like think of the craziest roller coaster you ever been on? I think you've done one recently.

Will:  08:21

I haven't for a while actually. Okay.

Tracy  08:24

So yeah, so what happens is the estrogen will reach peaks it's never had before, even during puberty, which is also another time where things are quite challenging for a woman. So it reaches peaks it's never heard before. And what it's actually saying to the body is, come on girl, you can do it one more time, one, one last chance to get pregnant. And and so what happens is the estrogen peaks massively, and then it declines like you wouldn't believe and the decline of estrogen is what causes up to 35 known symptoms.

Will:  08:59

So this is the rapid increase in the rapid decline is something that repeats in a cycle. So it's not a one-off thing.

Tracy  09:04

Well, it's not cyclic, it's like unpredictable. Oh, wonderful. Oh, it's so fun. It's just freaking awesome. So one of the things that women will probably experience first is the menstrual cycles become a retic. They might also experience more pain, heavier, bleeding, Zuberi, similar to when they're a teenager, and we call these two periods of life, the bookends of the reproductive cycle. But we talked about

Will:  09:34

the question that's in the back of my head. So I know that this is not going to be an exact answer. But what what age like roughly, are we talking about that this impacts women sort of majority of the time knowing that there'll be lots of outliers on this?

Tracy  09:46

Yeah, that's true. There are a lot of outliers. So the average age for a woman to enter perimenopause, where the symptoms are a little bit more noticeable is anything between 45 and 51 years of age. But we do know that some women enter perimenopause much sooner, as early as 35. And that's actually something I've learned that made me think, wow, I had my first baby at 35. And I had my second at 42. And it was very difficult in between to sustain a pregnancy. So I've told I've mentioned this before that I had like four miscarriages before I actually ended up having my Super Soul guy. But it just makes sense to me now, like, you know, up to about 35, you would be having sort of quite a balanced, you know, who you'd have, you know, your hormones are quite balanced, you're having regular cycles. But then after that, it starts to get a bit off whack. And here we are, you know, gung ho woman having babies in our 40s. And thinking if she can do it, I can do it. Now. I understand why that's actually a problem. Yeah. So why doctors tell us Yeah, you know what, you should be having babies before 35. So I'm super grateful that it all worked out. But I can completely understand why it's so difficult for women. So

Will:  10:59

Yeah, that's the real fitness thing. A lot of women in the fitness industry have babies late because obviously, if you are working in fitness, then you you know, you might put that off, because you've got certain opportunities that taking nine months off in a way that you can't be teaching. Not everyone, obviously, but I know for a fact that a lot of our friends and colleagues have definitely been mothers later in life compared to compared to maybe other industries.

Tracy  11:20

Yeah, it's so true. We see a lot of fitness women, you know, having babies in their 40s. And a big part of that is because they are really relatively healthy, you know, like their body is healthy. They tend to look after themselves. They eat well, they trade well. So there is a slight advantage to that. But you know, we know that women can enter perimenopause from as early as 35. So just letting everybody know.

Will:  11:44

We're going to say that at the outset.

Tracy  11:46

Yeah. And then what we call perimenopause is the time it can be up to 15 years of these radical symptoms.

Will:  11:55

Okay, so this is a question that actually had so perimenopause, menopause, is that like, the technical definition is menopause when it stops impairing and opposes the period up when it's changing but hasn't stopped. Okay, so this. This is good. Okay, cool. So I think that like, I hadn't heard the term perimenopause until relatively recently, obviously, I follow you on social media. And so I've seen you post about it. But I was I was wondering, like, I wasn't sure if menopause was like a blanket term for because I think back in the day and my kind of like old conception of this, I thought that menopause was the whole process rather than...

Tracy  12:30

Look at it as a blanket term. You know what it is a blanket term. Sometimes I alternate between saying period, menopause and menopause. But let me give you a little education for you. 

Will:  12:38

Please do. 

Tracy  12:39

Menopause is actually only one day. And everything after that...Yeah, it's the day that you haven't had a period for one year.

Will:  12:50

Okay, now, I didn't know that.

Tracy  12:52

Yeah. So but it's actually really hard to track. Right. So you won't be able to think back? Oh, I haven't had a period since January the 12. It's actually kind of hard to figure that out. But then you would think retrospectively, oh, well, I think it's been over a year. I've had a period. And you go, Oh, I'm in post menopause. So I wouldn't know a lot of women that would go, yeah, today's my menopause day. That one day, there's not a lot of people that would know that. So basically, you've perimenopause and your post menopause and post menopause is what happens after you have stopped or your periods. And some of the symptoms start to decline, which is what I would consider the Nirvana of midlife or, you know, where the best parts of aging kind of kick in, because you're not having all these radical symptoms, you know?

Will:  13:39

Okay, interesting. I've learned a lot already.

Tracy  13:43

I actually want to pick up on something you said. First up, well, I just applaud you for being having so much courage to have a conversation with a woman non perimenopause. It's so awesome. And it is really, really relevant to fitness. So the other thing is, you said that you've never heard of the word, perimenopause. I hadn't heard of it. And I was in it for three years. So that's crazy. Cause being in fitness, you have this feeling like you should know what's going on with your body. And you should have learned this Becker University. Yeah, correct.

Will:  14:15

It's amazing how many things that we didn't learn around fitness and nutrition and all this sort of stuff. So it's good that you know, we're taking the time to learn it now.

Tracy  14:23

Yeah. Okay. So what other questions have you got for me? Okay,

Will:  14:26

So let's wind back. I want to hear more about sort of perimenopause. So I think when I cut in and asked you about age, you were talking about the fact that the cycles aren't, aren't always consistent. So like, how does that present itself and what challenges does that present?

Tracy  14:39

Where do I start? I want to talk a little bit from personal perspective, but also from a fitness perspective, a fitness professional because I feel like fitness professionals will know this as soon as I say it. So the physical symptoms the first ones that I encountered were fatigue, joint pain, my periods became, you know, erratic recovery was a lot harder. And then I just kind of thought, oh, that's me getting older. What

Will:  15:12

This is  what I was about to say I'm like, I feel like I've got all of that.

Tracy  15:17

Well andropause, let's talk about that later. So that's for the guys. That isn't thing, by the way. So in the weight gain, so I, you know, started to put on a little bit of a belly, and I'm, you know, you've met me, well, I'm not a big person, I'm an ectomorph, naturally, so it would be a little bit harder for me to put on weight, I do find it hard to build muscle, I worked really hard at it. But I did start to put on, I think you call it a muffin top. So I because it wasn't really extreme, for me, I just started to train harder and cut back on, you know, bad foods, or treat foods and but I found that the training harder then started to hurt more and then I wasn't sleeping properly. Because you know, I had so much cortisol in my body stress from building a new business stress from not recovering properly. Because you have, you know, your estrogen is not balanced. And therefore, you've got, you've got like millions of estrogen receptors all over your body. And as soon as you've not got the same consistent amount of estrogen and it's starting to decrease, then of course, your muscles are more tired. Of course, you get as bloated, of course, basically, you're an inflammatory state, you're highly inflamed because estrogen keeps, you know, inflammation down.

Will:  16:30

And another dumb question. Estrogen is not just something that women have, right, like it's a hormone that exists across both sexes, but it just it just changes a lot more and woman at this particular time, as I'm sure that testosterone has the same kind of changes in men that aren't necessarily seen in women.

Tracy  16:47

Yeah, women also have testosterone. And that decreases during the perimenopause phase as well. And testosterone is really important for muscle density. And for libido, you know, so, but, you know, we hear about guys and their testosterone lowers, and they feel like their libido lowers. It's the same for women. Okay, so it's not just similar in that way. But..

Will:  17:13

So it is responsible for the menstrual cycle and female reproductive health. What's it responsible for in the body generally?

Tracy  17:20

Us being, you know, that's our superpower. Just, that's, you know, estrogen is, you know, the key hormone for us to reproduce. But it also, it's responsible for, you know, your skin looking good, it's responsible for your hair being lashes, and your nails been strong. And it's responsible for you to recover from workouts, as far as I'm concerned, the things that really kind of I took a hit. But one of here, here's where that where things get really gnarly. Well, I'm more than open to shear here, because I feel like this could really reach out to women in the fitness industry. If I started to doubt my abilities, I started to feel very anxious. I had massive impostor syndrome, I would have to talk myself...

Will:  18:13

And this is not something you had, this is something that kind of came on then wasn't something you had dealt with earlier in your career. So it was it was a change that you were feeling.

Tracy  18:21

Massively, and I want to give it put it into context. So I'm an educator. So I would stand up and educate a group of instructors across you know, how to teach a class and how to be a better communicator, and how to sell your product and, you know, concepts that were beyond how to do a jab or a cross, actually, like quite

Will:  18:42

And it was something that you've been doing for, you know, decades, and we're very high expert at.

Tracy  18:46

Yeah. And then I would stand up and actually forget what I was going to say, and stumble and feel really out of my depth. And then to the point that the next day when I had to do something similar, I would be absolutely terrified. I would be sitting in my car talking myself and you can do this trace, you've done this before. And so you know, for me, that was probably like, while the physical symptoms were there, I could figure out how to deal with those. Yeah, that the mental sent them same upon me, were just out of the blue left field. I write about it in my book, I have a book called My Menopause Memoir. And I really do sort of highlight how much the mental wellness is affected during perimenopause.

Will:  19:31

Can I, so a question that I've got for you, hearing you talk, one of the things I think is it like it sounds like it was difficult to distinguish between just the normal effects of aging and being stressed and having lots of you know, you're responsible for a business you're responsible for your relationship and your children you know, and then this is during the pandemic as well I guess was part of this was happening. So how did you like it? Was it difficult to distinguish between these are just the normal things that happen when you age and such as you know, you recovery takes longer your joints hurt a little bit more. When was it that you realize that this wasn't just an aging thing? This was a perimenopause or menopause related thing.

Tracy  20:08

When I started to doubt myself worth more actually, yeah.

Will:  20:13

And that's a bit that's a big problem for a lot of women, right? Because they don't really realize the impact that this is having on their, their their interiority and their ability to sort of be confident.

Tracy  20:23

Yeah. And then you see why people leave, not just the fitness industry, I actually think probably one of the biggest things and something that, you know, in some ways, I feel like I would have more credibility if the symptom had impacted me more, which is weight gain. Yeah. But I am very close to a lot of fitness trainers, we have very open conversations about the weight gain that happens. Now, we're talking about women that have trained like religiously for decades, they are they love trading, and that's why they are in the fitness industry, because they love to impart that knowledge and joy to the people in front of them. But once the weight comes on, and it is pretty radical weight gain, you know, that's the difference between sort of five and 10 kilos over a quite a short period of time.

Will:  21:10

I'm guessing if it's hormonal, it's potentially in different places, then you've had it before.

Tracy  21:15

Correct, yeah. So it's tends to be the belly and the hips, although that I mean, though, you know, if you put our weight that it kind of is that too, but it is extremely more. And that really messes with your head. Because now the clothing that you've got to wear when you get on stage, the way people remember you or the photos because everything's on social media now, like they can compare you. Oh, look, and now look at her.

Will:  21:39

And I know that I know that that's a big thing for women in the fitness industry, right? It's sort of having having people know you and respect you for who you were, say five years ago and then have your physical like, this applies across across both genders. But I know that it is. It is something that I've I've heard colleagues of mine, like talk about and and be stressed about.

Tracy  21:59

Yeah, absolutely. I hear it all the time. Because you know, in the space. Yeah, exactly. It is probably and not just for fitness. But for women in general who train at the gym. I can see someone in perimenopause a mile away. You know, they're doing multiple hit classes, day after day, sometimes twice a day, they're literally eating air. And they're not shifting any weight. And this is not a calorie and calorie out situation. Now, that doesn't work for women and perimenopause. So what I try to do is help women understand that this is a natural life stage. There are things that you need to tweak. But you need to think long term about what do you want the rest of your life to look like? Yeah, you're going to, there are going to be some issues with weight gain that you're an 80% of women that go through perimenopause, have weight gain, you're in a big team here. So don't feel like to expose just understand this as a natural stage of life. And you can actually work it to your advantage. Now, that's how I feel as a fitness trainer to be open and communicative to that stage of life. Like if we can now start having that normal conversation. And I'm not saying you get on stage with your, you know, your weights to teach a fitness class and you go, yo, where's my perimenopause checks here, you know, nothing, not quite like that. But it is that it does say, Look, if you're feeling that your hormones are kicking your ass today take it a bit easier. Like it's actually just sort of changing the narrative a little bit, because I think we can all see those people in front of us now. They are the long stayers. They are our dedicated clients, they have the money to show up day after day, they pay for the best personal trainers, they are loyal as anything that you know, stuff has changed, and nobody was talking about it. 

Will:  23:47

So what do you think this is a little bit I want to get back to kind of the fitness side of it and the things that we can do as fitness professionals to really learn more and enable clients and and people within our classes to sort of encounter this stage in a more sort of smart and compassionate way. What do you think changed the conversation to a point where people are talking about this now, because I feel like menopause is one of those it was a punch line in a sitcom kind of gag, or something that everyone went through what changed recently in the way that we you have public discourse that has put it to the front and center. Because I know that in the UK, there was a TV presenter a couple of years ago, who really cool Yeah, who really like she kind of went through this and decided she was a fitness person as well, actually. So you know, had the intersection of media and fitness. But what, what what changed in the culture that we're now talking about it from your perspective?

Tracy  24:38

Yeah. I think about this a lot. And that's such an awesome question. And it's amazing, you have that insight, but I feel that it's our generation of woman that actually like to look good, feel good, wear nice clothes, take care of ourselves, and we actually know how to do it. So we've had the education, you know, this is how you train this is how you lift weights. This is what you should be eating You know, low GI carbohydrates. Here's your balance of protein. Like we kind of got the equation, right, yeah. And then, you know, when we come up against perimenopause, we're like double take. And we're all feeling

Will:  25:15

There's this energy equation, and it's supposed to work and it's not working for me. What's the deal?

Tracy  25:18

That's not working? Yeah, right. Right, right. Somebody, somebody somebody's telling me. And then of course, you've got social media, and we're growing. We've grown with it as well. And so we can see that people are all having the same conversation. And I think that it's like, oh, I think the question has come up. Why the fuck is nobody told me about this?

Will:  25:36

Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Tracy  25:39

Yeah. And I guess because we're all, you know, we want to know, so now it's like this groundswell? Yeah. You know, a groundswell hey, look, if this is a woman's health challenge, then why have we not got the content? Why have we not got the education, the medical support? Why the GPs don't even know about it?

Will:  25:58

That's why, right? Because we're living in a patriarchal society where where the investment wasn't put into it for a long time.

Tracy  26:05

And you said that! And I didn't say, you said that. But yeah, bingo, it's like...

Will:  26:13

Sorry, keep going. Yeah. 

Tracy  26:15

Anything to do with women's health is kind of put on the shelf. And there's that saying, you know, women are not small men? You know, we...

Will:  26:21

I saw a stat about how testing on drugs was done on like, was almost always done on men. And so that, like the average dosages were done around what an average male doses would be. And obviously, most women are smaller because they're shorter and more compact. And that this was just something that has always gone on and pharmaceutical testing that no one had really called out until quite recently.

Tracy  26:44

Yeah, I forgotten the name of a book that actually highlights that across a lot of products. Anything from cars, to public transport. Yeah.

Will:  26:54

It's yeah, crash test dummies and all that sort of stuff.

Tracy  26:57

Yeah. So everything's like tested on guys. And I think one of the other really interesting questions is that, you know, for decades guys have been able to get why Viagra across the counter, we're struggling to get our hormonal needs met, you know. So Jeff, kind of breaking through now, which is great.

Will:  27:16

Yeah. Okay. So we're so the, the narrative is changing, and the culture is changing. And I guess there's that whole, like, you know, 40 is the new 30, and 50 is the new 40. And I guess that when there's when there's a change that 50% of the population go through that they can't really avoid, and that 80% of people have these sort of massive physical impacts. I know, you talked about sort of weight gain, affecting that many, that there has to come a point where we start talking about it. And now we have maybe you could talk a little bit about, like, what do people do in terms of our their treatments or their approaches? Are there things that people who are going through this can do to help with the symptoms? And what are the things that they say? Are there things that about perimenopause and menopause that you just need to kind of suck up and deal with and other other things that you can do as your therapeutic or a, a regime that can help with the symptoms? Sorry, that was very long question. But I know you I know, you know, where I'm going with this.

Tracy  28:10

The short answer is all the things. And if I break it down into, I'll start with the lifestyle, hacks, or the you know, the lifestyle things. And I think most fitness trainers would appreciate that, like, what are the things that I can do every day that I can tweak. And so when it comes to training, strength training becomes the priority, we need to retain muscle density, there's a situation called sarcopenia, where a woman and perimenopause will lose up to 16% of their muscle over, you know, a decade, which is significant, actually. So, we know as fitness professionals that losing muscle density also means that our metabolism will slow down, and hence the weight gain. So strength training is like the optimal, and just staying active, like, you know, we're active people anyway, you know, recovery, like really being conscious of recovery. So you wouldn't be able to do the hit classes back to back hours and hours a week. That's not something that's recommended, I don't know how people do that.

Will:  29:09

Is HIIT still recommended generally, or is HIIT something that you should, because it like people that are listening to this and maybe aren't quite as up to date with all the sides, it creates a lot of cortisol, which is great because it creates a physical response that can help you to get fitter, faster, and all the great things, but it also is very stressful on your body. And so if you're in a period where you'll find the recovery harder, or if there's any reason that you need to be more sort of conscious of the inflammatory response, doing lots of it is not the best and unfortunately, over the last sort of 15-20 years, we have been conditioned as a fitness population to think that I want to lose weight fast I should do HIIT training.

Tracy  29:47

Yeah, I actually think some of that has to do with the lifestyle of we don't have a lot of time. You know, we're time poor people. So we market a fast, effective workout for everyone now, you know, a couple of times, I mean, I love F45 workouts I've done a few. I've been to quite a few clubs around the world. But I have noticed over time that the market is older and I'm like, how are you doing this every day? You know, and then I think they've addressed it. As far as I know, I think there's a few things in the background that are sort of, you know, they have I seen that a big part of their market, which is massive amount of money for them. Probably not suited to that workout any longer. But yeah, there is still a place for HIIT. And I think the important thing to remember is cortisol is at its highest level first thing in the morning. So if you are going to do that type of workout, just get it done early because you need to let your cortisol levels taper off throughout the day to let you get some sleep. One of the biggest problems for perimenopause, a woman is waking up between the hours of two and four and you absolutely need to be asleep. That's where your hormones are regulating. So yeah, having too much cortisol floating around your body doing a late you know, hardcore workout cycle class, even seven o'clock at night, I cut those a few years back, I very rarely teach or participate in any high intensity activity after 12 o'clock in the in the day.

Will:  31:08

Okay, but you'll do your do weights in the in the afternoon or evening, but just never anything that sort of high intensity or do you kind of try and stick to mornings for all the workouts?

Tracy  31:17

Mornings, mornings, for all my workouts. 

Will:  31:19

Was that always the case of were you always a morning workout person, or is this very much a change as you've as you've come into this process?

Tracy  31:27

I've always been a morning workout person, but I always loved teaching nighttime classes.

Will:  31:32

Oh, the same. Me too.

Tracy  31:36

Because the energy and the vibe and there's just hype, and they come in from work, and they just smash it and I'm ready to smash them.

Will:  31:46

And it was a little, it was a bit like afterward drinks, right? Like when I came to the UK and everyone would go to the pub after work. I'm like, I've always done this, but my pub was the gym and I would go into a class and have a bit of social experience.

Tracy  31:57

Yeah, so but that's not possible anymore. And I found out the hard way.

Will:  32:02

Okay. So that's one of those things that is just, you know, unfortunately, that's a reality that you have to deal with. And if you want to be able to regulate your hormones during the most important part of the sleep cycle, you probably need to reformulate when you are exercising and how you're exercising.

Tracy  32:17

Yeah. And the other part is nutrition. So I've really glazed over a lot of that I'm just giving like the top 10.

Will:  32:23

Yeah, well, don't worry, because we're gonna put all the links to all of your resources in the show notes for this. So if people want to seek out more information or check out your podcast, we've had an amazing guest talking about a whole range of different things like that will be directed to all of that. So we can just go for the, for the surface level for this. And if anyone wants any more info, then we'll give them all of that.

Tracy  32:42

Yeah, awesome. So on the nutrition side, protein has to you have to pay attention to your protein. So I'd recommend for a fitness instructor to look at between minimum 1.8 to maximum 2.2 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight, which is actually a lot and bloody hard. So supplementation has to factor in so you know, really pump up protein in the first half of the day. Keep it nice and steady. And low GI carbohydrates because you're in an inflammatory situation. So having high GI foods or carbage, I call it which is white carbohydrates.

Will:  33:20

I like that. That's very good. Yeah, so basically, what what white carbs right, effectively.

Tracy  33:25

White carbs for carbage. So stay away from it because you know that's actually inflaming it causes the bloating sensation that a lot of women feel. Whereas if you have low GI carbohydrates and at night, like don't cut out carbs at night, like that's not going to help woman and perimenopause either. So low GI carbs, you're talking brown rice, quinoa, quinoa, pumpkin, like they just actually help you rest and, and there's really good science that shows that will help you sleep as well because it's just slow release. It's gentle on the body. It gives you the energy to train the next day. And then omega three so you know your fish oils are really important for joint health, brain health. When you've got brain fog and your joints are hurting your you know, keep your omega threes in your in your diet. Coffee to down and done before 12 and alcohol cut it after seven o'clock at night.

Will:  34:23

Oh, that's a tough one.

Tracy  34:26

No party. So my recommendation is start at lunchtime. Go the seminars? No, actually, I think woman generally in their late 40s even when they don't know that they're going through menopause will notice how alcohol really impacts on their sleep and recovery. They're just like, Oh, I'm getting too old for this but they'll start again the next day. And of course there's the thing around alcohol when you don't know what's going on with yourself. It just kind of takes the edge off. And I remember going through that and it was through the pandemic as well thinking, ah yeah, it's gin o'clock, you know?

Will:  35:02

Yeah. And also if you if you've had a day, if you're feeling more stressed, and you haven't got to the bottom of why you're more stressed, and you're having that, you know, you're living a life where you've got impostor syndrome, then, like, I know that on a stressful day, I will pour myself a glass of wine and relax into the couch, right? I remember being a teenager, a year old and watching, like movies and television, where they'd have a glass of wine. And I was always like, why are they doing that? I don't understand. And then at some point in my late 20s, or 30s, and had a stressful day at work, I poured a glass of wine. I hadn't even drunk in it yet. But just the fact that I was holding a glass of wine, I had that kind of a wash of less stress came over me. And then I realized that that's what adults do that maybe you need to rethink that. Yeah, it's true.

Tracy  35:40

Yeah, I just think it's just being really conscious of how alcohol does impact on your symptoms. And yeah, just being a little bit more mindful of it. So those are some general points. Yeah, for me, fitness, and how to train is quite a big thing. I have a online course, which I think is perfect for fitness professionals, to be honest. So especially anyone that's a personal trainer, like I see personal trainers training, you know, lots of perimenopausal woman.

Will:  36:07

And this is not part of what a personal trainer learns, right? Like, we're at the point where we're talking about it. And you've obviously got your resources and you're hearing people talk about perimenopause and menopause more in the media. But it's still not, for example, a module that a PT or fitness instructor would go through.

Tracy  36:24

Yeah, they don't. Well, they're starting to be starting to be specialist training.

Will:  36:29

But it's not something that you get as part of yours or sort of baseline qualification.

Tracy  36:33

No, not at all. And what I find really interesting is, by the year 2025, which is just two and a half years away, there will be 1 billion woman in the menopause transition. That's a massive market. So the fitness industry freakin get upgraded. Because not only is that a huge amount of woman, that's a lot of woman that pay for their own health, happy to buy, you know, happy to pay for gym memberships, more than happy to have a personal trainer three days a week, but they won't pay for a personal trainer who doesn't know their situation.

Will:  37:05

And also probably looking for someone that can help them with the insights that for example you've given us and that you go into, and you're 60 aging resources, but someone that can help them with this, because they know that they don't necessarily have all the information because we don't get taught it.

Tracy  37:18

Yeah, I know, it's kind of heartbreaking. I guess I'll swing between sort of frustration and anger and joy that we're actually talking about it. So I know a lot of people will feel frustration, especially if they've either gone to the doctor thinking that something's wrong. And the doctor says, I'm going to do a blood test and test your hormones now. That's absolute bollocks.

Will:  37:41

Oh, tell me why. So, explain that a little bit more.

Tracy  37:45

Okay. Because during perimenopause with the fluctuations of your hormones, one time of the day. That's right. Well, you're testing it we're in it could not prove anything. And it could be thyroid hormone issues. It could be anemia, it could be anything. But a blood test won't, won't predict that you are in the menopause.

Will:  38:06

Okay, so how is there? Is there an app for that? I feel that there's an app for everything is there? How does some How does someone like? If someone's listening to this? Can they self diagnose based on their symptoms?

Tracy  38:16

They can. Now what they can do is download a symptom tracker. And I have one on my my website. But there's also really you're right, there's apps for it. There's a fantastic app in the UK called the balance app. And it's put out by a leading doctor in this field, a menopause specialist called Dr. Louise Newson, I've actually interviewed some of her colleagues on my podcasts because I wanted the lowdown on what's actually happening to get the facts. And so it's called balance. And a lot of women use it. It's absolutely fantastic. You get heaps of content and information about each of the symptoms. Or you could just, you know, go to sexy ageing and download a tracker. Now what you do is you track your symptoms for a month you just tick you know, there's the 35 keep up with them. Just take all the things that day. You know...

Will:  39:07

Of those 35 Guys want to pull them every second. So we've obviously talked about some of the major ones. What are some of the more like, obscure, yeah, the freaky ones that like people may not know already, like what just just just so we can get a full picture.

Tracy  39:20

Yeah. So dry eyes, your teeth, your teeth start separating, because your teeth start to reduce and your gums start to get looser. Your teeth get looser and your gums itchy skin feels like ants crawling on you. Your hair starts to break your nails. Okay, here's the funny one. So the hair on your head gets better, but you're hair everywhere else grows.

Will:  39:48

Well, I mean, I do feel like that as a man I can I can speak to that a little bit.

Tracy  39:53

Yeah, it's like what you lose from your head ends up down. Okay, on your chin. You You know, you see the joke about you know that when I started to grow beard, nails, what are some of the ones, oh, tingly feet and hands while you're. Like this is one of my worst ones. I would be lying there like just drifting off to sleep and then my hands would go really tingly and hot like, oh, no, you're not. You're not sleeping tonight though. We're just gonna like sit your hands on fire. So yeah, just really strange things like that. And this, they just seem so random. And I think that's what makes it so hard for a woman to go, oh, that's a perimenopause symptom. Oh, that's a symptom.

Will:  40:35

Yeah, because they don't all fit into sort of one bucket that you would associate with sort of things that you've had previously in your life? Can I ask a personal question and ask what so what stage of the process? Do you think that you're at right now? And and where do you and where to from here for you? If that's all right to ask.

Tracy  40:52

Yeah, hey, look, I'm super, I've told you everything pretty much. And, you know, in my book, I, there's no holds barred there. So and I think, you know, it doesn't serve me if I'm going to be a female representative and fitness and talk about this topic. It doesn't serve me to hold back. It's just better to be. So I believe that I'm at the back end of perimenopause, my periods are getting further apart. Some of the symptoms have kind of gone away, I don't get the night sweats anymore, or the hot flashes? I don't get that. You know, I will actually say that I am on hormone replacement therapy, or more menopause hormone therapy. So I do feel that that is actually helping me a lot.

Will:  41:35

Yeah. So let's, let's continue this. And then I want to come back to the hormone theory, because I'm really curious to understand a bit more about that. So continue on with sort of where you feel you're at in the journey, and then we'll circle back to the HRT.

Tracy  41:46

Yeah, I think I mentioned the word I said Nirvana was menopause, I feel like I'm getting closer to there. And a lot of that is just clarity of thought, goal driven, again, really frickin excited to get up and do my stuff in the day.

Will:  42:04

This is interesting, because as when you were talking about the symptoms before like dry eyes and teeth separating. I was like, my next question was going to be after this one. What are like, Are there any positives? Or are there any good sides of it? So like, tell me like, what are the we've talked about the negatives and the challenges and the things that people have to deal with? Because they're different to how it was before? What are the positives and benefits that you feel you've gained from not just menopause itself, but also learning about it, and you're growing more and developing more as a person?

Tracy  42:33

Yeah. I mean, that's one of the things that I really want to represent. Yeah, while there are challenges, there are definitely upsides asend aging should be celebrated. And hence, sexy ageing, they can be together, right? So you don't have to be aging and not feel sexy, and sexy is whatever you make it right. It's like how you feel on the inside. So I definitely feel that for women that get a handle on on their symptoms and understand what's happening to their body, that it's like the scales drop away from your eyes. And you do really get clarity around, where you're going to spend your time who you want to spend time with, having honest conversations, deepening relationships, and having clarity that you have less time in front of you than you've had on Earth. And now is the time to get after it. So that thing you always wanted to do. Freakin go get it. And we also had the hindsight of experience of knowing that failure is learning. And you know, we didn't die when we failed last time. And you know, and we know what we learned and pick ourselves up a lot faster. And so I just think that those are the things that are so cool about the stage of life, and it's just that harrowing to get there. You know? 

Will:  43:44

Yeah, well, I was gonna say, I feel like they're all things that will come once you are aware of what your body's going through. And that until you do get to that point, it must be it must be like you're having the rug sort of pulled from under you, I imagine.

Tracy  43:57

Yeah. And I think that's where you see a lot of fitness trainers sort of step away, or start to have those doubts about their performance. But I also want to mention that brain fog and forgetfulness Yep, forgetting the words. Now you'll see this and woman teaching fitness classes, they would have scripted to the hilt or rehearsed or know exactly what they want to say. And suddenly they can't remember the name of the move. Yeah, the blank, the blank. That happens. It's so scary. And when the blanks happen too frequently, that's when the questions and the doubts come up. So I do want to just say, hey, look, anyone, I've had that happen 1000 times. I often I actually have a kind of good sense of humor. I laugh at myself a lot, but it didn't go unnoticed to me. I just really frickin hope it went unnoticed to everyone else. 

Will:  44:48

What were the strategies that you put in place like if that particular thing because I feel like that's for anyone that presents or teaches classes or does any type of presenting doesn't need to be in the fitness industry? That would be one of those things where, as you said before, but happens too often you start to lose your confidence and then you go into kind of a death spiral of of worry and stress. What was the strategy that you employed? If you if you had the brain fog or mister word like, what would you do specifically?

Tracy  45:14

I would just laugh at myself while I was teaching, I would just go call it what you want. Yeah, or take an extra breath. We're just gonna hang out here for a moment. You know, you do you do a lot of these things in the moment. And then you try to shelve that voice on your shoulder that saying, Okay, you sucked. You messed up.

Will:  45:35

This is after you'd realize the period of life that you'd entered and what your body was doing, I'm guessing there was a, there was a period of time where it was just brain fog. And you didn't know, tell me a little bit about when you kind of Where did you find this out? And how did you discover it? So if anyone's kind of in the sort of 35 plus zone right now, how did how do you go about figuring out that this is what's happening versus just normal aging in normal life?

Tracy  45:59

Yeah, so I did mention about the symptom tracker. Yeah. So yeah, the trackers, you know, like, just highlighting what each of those symptoms are, you will, you will start to realize, oh, yeah, actually, that's happening for me quite a lot. And a normal conversation with a friend. If you lose your track, your train of thought, or if someone comes along, and you need to introduce them, and you can't remember the other person's name, and you've met that person two or three times before, that's almost a sign.

Will:  46:25

So so that was the brain fog and the missing of names or words that was kind of the big one.

Tracy  46:31

Yeah. So yeah, I think the it's a hindsight thing a lot. Yeah, when it because it's when I went on hormone replacement therapy, that within 48 hours, there was a, like a massive change of something that I could do that I couldn't do two days before...

Will:  46:52

What a perfect segue into this. So tell us a little bit more about the hormone replacement therapy.

Tracy  46:56

Yeah, so the brain fog thing was quite challenging. I found it really hard to stay focused for longer than 20 minutes on one task.

Will:  47:04

I find that as well. But I think there's just a digital age and social media.

Tracy  47:09

Yeah, or maybe something undiagnosed. That could be another topic. A trending topic. Yeah, it was, it was. Yeah, so I took hormone replacement therapy. And within two days, I remember putting my phone down. And at the time I was writing, writing my book. I put the phone down. I always listened to classical music and I didn't look up from writing for 45 minutes. And that hadn't happened in year.s

Will:  47:39

That's something that you hadn't done for a long time. 

Tracy  47:41

That had not happened in years that I had worked for 45 minutes without stopping. And I knew exactly what I wanted to say. And I feel like it was just and I remember putting, you know, pushing stop on my timer and thinking, like joy, like, oh, my gosh, I've got me back. I've got me back and my motivation to go and train and enjoy the training. It wasn't just dragging thing, because I've always done it because it started to creep in. Like, if I don't do it, then I'll get fatter or I'll lose all my muscle. It wasn't the depressing thoughts. It was, I want to train because I know this stuff makes me feel good. Yeah. You know, so it was just like, everything we got better.

Will:  48:23

And is hormone replacement something that, like, is that something that most women do? Is it prescribed for some woman? Like, how do you how do you go about knowing whether that's right for you? Obviously, you work with the doctor. But what's the is that something that's very common, or I'm showing that I don't know anything here, but you're gonna tell me...

Tracy  48:40

Actually you and a lot of women don't know. So you're not, you know, it's not just you. A lot of people don't know that, that this is one of the medical choices that you can make. And when it comes down to women's health, that it all is about choice. Okay, so it's not you sit in this camp and you sit in this camp. So you've got you're either on HRT or you're not and you these guys are yelling at each other. That shouldn't be the case at all. I think it's like, here's all the things and all the tools. For example, antidepressants are used to treat hot flashes. And they work very well whether a person's depressed or not, it actually stops you from having hot flashes, right? Because there's a chemical in there that helps your hypothalamus balance. So I just think it's understanding that you have a lot of options and know what those are. So HRT is one of the great option that a lot of women have had benefits from it. It has for some woman, it's been absolutely life changing. If you're talking about depression and suicide, and someone goes on HRT and they get themselves back, that's life changing stuff right there. Right? Now, it's it doesn't work for everyone. I had a really good fitness friend who she's actually a fitness influencer in the space. Her name's Amanda Thede. She's from the UK she wrote a book called MenApocalypse. I'm shouting out because she's been she's been really simple. would have my work. And she couldn't do. She can't take menopause hormonal replacement. So because it gave her migraines. And so we talked about that, and we did, you know, conversation on IG live where you have two fitness trainers talking about who does who's on it, who's Yeah, different perspectives not having the battle, you know. So I do think it's worth, you know, I say it again, tracking your symptoms, and then going to your doctor and saying, is this something that you think would be good for me? Can I try it? The way I think? Why you just try it? If it makes you feel great, then keep going. And if you if it gives you things that you didn't expect, then you go back to the doctor and you tweak because it isn't one size fits. All right, it's different for everybody.

Will:  48:43

So what I'm hearing is that as much, much like, I guess, you talked about antidepressant mental health, sometimes it's a drug thing, sometimes it's a lifestyle thing, nutrition health is, there's sort of like a smorgasbord of things that you can that you can try. And you probably, if you are experiencing this, or if someone that you love or client is experiencing this, then encouraging them to be open to the wide menu of things that they can do is really important.

Tracy  51:08

Absolutely. I mean, as a Fitness Pro, I'm always going to advocate for the healthy lifestyle options.

Will:  51:13

I think that yeah, totally. 

Tracy  51:16

I mean, it has to start because you can't just, you know, put a bandaid on it. And that's the way I think, you know, HRT could be if you don't make sure that you're moving every day, and you know, you're mobile, you train your core, you sleep well, you eat? Well, you know, you've got to do those things, because then...

Will:  51:32

Sleep, eat, and move right? It kind of all starts with that, and then you can build on that.

Tracy  51:36

Yeah, I think one of the really interesting things that I've learned is that, you know, the number one killer, you know, health issue for women. And the reason that most women die from a health issue, especially heart disease, breast cancer, and all these sort of, you know, things, right...

Will:  51:56

Well, because heart disease is the number one killer for people generally, right? It's just that it's usually more associated with, you know, the overweight man who has a heart attack.

Tracy  52:03

And it accelerates for postmenopausal woman, and there is a link to you know, low estrogen levels. So, you know, HRT can actually kind of help with that.

Will:  52:15

So this actually brings me so we're getting towards the end of the hour. And I wanted to ask about this. So we've talked a lot about perimenopause, because I think that in our industry, there's probably a lot of listeners. And I know I've looked at the data and stats of who who follows me on social media and just generally in group fitness, you know, that this is something that will be impacting a lot of people. What happens post menopause. So what are the changes that happen when menopause happens? And then you move into the postmenopausal period? What's the change there? What can people expect?

Tracy  52:44

Yeah, well, I think when you're a fitness professional, when you're working fitness, then your chances of coming up against the health challenges are less. And so that's why you know, just keep doing all the things during perimenopause, don't fall off the cliff, just keep doing all the things because your future health is dependent on it. So if you're a fitness professional, just keep going. Do the things that make you feel really well really healthy, strong, and therefore, you know, like, for heart disease, osteoporosis, you know, join tissues, that is less so for, for us that are the fitness bunnies. So, but for a woman that, you know, generally don't work out regularly and do have an unhealthy lifestyle, things just massively accelerate diabetes, heart disease, yeah, health is just, Alzheimer's, deteriorates, like, Yeah, it's crazy, the stats. So it really, you know, if you're in the fitness industry, then generally you've got a better chance of living a long and healthy. Which is ultimately what we want.

Will:  53:46

Yeah, totally. What I'm hearing here is that, like, if you haven't been exercising and you hit perimenopause, then it's a good time to start. Not a bad time to stop moving. Right. Yeah.

Tracy  53:56

Yeah, I agree. And, just once again, Will, I'm just so grateful that you wanted to have this conversation. And I just, you know, congratulate you. And, you know, open up the pandora's box.

Will:  54:08

Well, I've been I've been I've been watching you with sexy ageing in the podcast and in the book. And I just want to say congratulations on, on getting all this out there. Because I know full well that it's not an easy thing to a put yourself out there. But creating a podcast and a book and all these resources, particularly when you sort of do it alone and don't have a team or a large organization behind you. Takes a lot of work. So congratulations to you too. And I'm really excited to see you being able to talk about something that's obviously so important to you, and that you care about and that and that has such a potential to improve the lives of the people that are listening to you and following you.

Tracy  54:44

Yeah, thanks, Will. Well, I really do hope that I do eventually have a team behind me. Yeah. Yeah, little segue. Yeah, I'm launching a fitness training app for women and menopause. Cool. It's coming out soon. So watch the space.

Will:  55:00

And so if people are listening to this, and they they're really interested in what you've been saying, and they'd like to learn more, what are the best places to go? We've touched on a little bit of this already, but I'm just telling me directly, like, where are the best places to find you on the internet?

Tracy  55:11

sexyageing.com. Cool. Yeah. And everything's there. So everything you need, there's blog posts, and you know, a lot of stuff is free. And then of course, there's, you know, paid for courses and what have you.

Will:  55:25

and we'll put a link to that in the show notes to this episode as well. Okay, before you go, I do want to ask you mentioned andropause, and obviously, because I'm completely motivated by myself a little bit, because I'm starting to get worried.

Tracy  55:40

Yeah, cuz you've still got a lot of Greece holidays in front of you. Right?

Will:  55:43

Exactly, exactly. As you can't see, because this is obviously not a visual medium. But I'm quite lucky that the headband of my earphones goes over the part of my head that is losing all the hair. But as someone has been filmed doing burpees for 20 years, every time I always freeze frame, and they have a look at how my hair density is going. And you know, it's starting to go, I think a trip to Turkey for a hair replacement. treatment might be coming up. But tell me, what, what is that? What is the impact of growing older men? Obviously, it doesn't have as significant to change. But what are the things that men might experience when they go through this hormonal change process? Because I know it's, it's slower and more gradual, but it does happen. 

Tracy  56:25

Yeah, it's a slow, gradual decline of testosterone, and you will experience the same muscle decline.

Will:  56:31

right, it's 10% per year, for every 10% per decade, every decade after you're 30, right, like 10% of your muscle mass sort of dissipates.

Tracy  56:40

Which is significant. And people are temporary, and I can afford to lose 10%, but you can see it on yourself. So if you're a person that, you know, you've been training, and you know what your body looks like, you see your photo and a decade difference. So you can kind of see it, the softening or the rounding. And for men, they, you know, if they don't have that lean muscle tissue, and they don't train regularly and focus on the nutrition, they will put on around the belly and around the chest. And that becomes dangerous.

Will:  57:06

Right, because those are the areas of the body which are more closely related to heart disease, right? Like the the hips and the hips and butts are not as not as risk, do not have as high risk factor as around the gut and chest.

Tracy  57:18

Correct. Yeah, probably better survival rates if you've got you know, the hips and what have you. And with andropause comes the mental well, health issues as well. And I guess we call it midlife crisis for guys.

Will:  57:31

Yeah, totally. What I'm hearing is that, like, we should probably just all be a little bit more conscious of the changes that people go through in their life cycle now that we're living longer. And we're living better for longer, we need to just be more conscious of the of the things that will help us to like, have more fun and be more active and deal better with the natural things that happen to everybody as they age through life. Because as I said before, you got two choices, right? You either age, or you die, and I will probably I'm gonna be aging.

Tracy  58:00

Yeah, age and aging well, and doing the best thing you can and you know, you've probably got a massive bucket list just like I have. Well, there's so many things I want to do. I'm just so not done. Yeah. So being well, and fit and healthy is the only way that I'm going to get it done.

Will:  58:15

Absolutely. And I think that is a perfect place to finish. So Tracy Minnoch, thank you so much for taking the time to speak to me and to educate me in this very important topic. If anybody has any more questions, then we will put links to your website and your social media in the show notes. But I'm sure that we'll chat again because I feel that you're, you're just getting started on this journey and that there's lots more to talk about.

Tracy  58:36

Thanks, Will. We'll talk again.

Will:  58:39

Cheers! Thank you for listening. If you're enjoying the show, don't forget to subscribe for all the latest episodes wherever you get your podcasts. And while you're there, please drop us a review. You can also get in touch with me at will@sh1ftfitness.com I'm Will Brereton and you've been listening to Group Fitness Real Talk.