Bevan  00:00

But the one thing I've learned working with beginners is the belief changes when you create experiences that are safe and realistic that they can succeed. And so like with my get up to five group, people don't join us if they're going to like running. And they think they're gonna fail. Always about six weeks, they come up to us and they say, Bevan I see other runners and I think I'm like them, or they'll say, Bevan, I can't believe I like running. Now, what's happened in next six weeks is we've created a safe environment, at a level of exercise where they can succeed and every time and basically have like 18 to 20 different experiences, which are starting to shift in a belief around themselves. And the ultimate point we're trying to get to is, I feel dissonance if I'm not exercising.

Will:  00:44

Okay, welcome to Group Fitness Real Talk. My name is Will Brereton and we are bringing you all the most important information for being a group fitness instructor in 2022 and beyond. And today, my special guests is one of my Group Fitness role models, Bevan James Eyles, how are you?

Bevan  01:00

I'm back for the second time on here.

Will:  01:01

Yeah, you're a repeat guest. Well, it couldn't couldn't be any other way, I have to say. I was working out like this being 2022, we have known each other and been colleagues and fitness for what, 21 years now. Which which ages us.

Bevan  01:19

Really? Yeah, well, I've got a daughter, she's 25. And when you were 25 year old, you go jeez, I cut down my own age.

Will:  01:27

But yeah, listeners of the pod world will know given from previous episodes, which we will link to in the show notes. But the reason he is coming on today is because he has written the book and I want you all to hear about it. So I'm going to ask Bevan, tell me, what have you written and why did you write it?

Bevan  01:42

Okay, the book is called "I will make you passionate about exercise:  how to go from being unmotivated, unfit and lost to having energy being fit, healthy and loving exercise". So a few, I've worked in fitness forever. Exactly, unfortunately, Will knows the date. But so worked in fitness for a really long time. And, you know, I've achieved a lot in fitness, I've worked for Les Mills at the highest level, I've won fitness instructor of the year, you know, sustained a career in a really hard industry, you know, a lot of people are in it can't survive. And so, you know, like, I've, you know, I've achieved a lot. I was an Ironman triathlete, you know, it's I've kind of lived the athlete life and the fitness instructor's life and around about 2010, Mit Thomas, you know, Mit well, Mit Thomas is also a...And we were in Florida and we're doing this fitness conference in Mit, you know, it was like, we always go deep and meaningful when you're hanging out with each other. And Mit just turns around to me one night, she goes to me, you realize we're failing with fitness. And I'm just thinking, she's an idiot. Like I'm a professional athlete be on, you know, doing all this stuff on them forward to presenting like, I'm killing it fitness and I just didn't get what she was on about. And she goes well, and so I literally said, "What do you mean, we're failing fitness?" And she said, "well, more people are putting on weight. And less people are moving". If it's our job to help society be healthier and fitter, we're failing. And it was a real lightbulb moment for me. And it was actually a quite a confrontational moment for me, because it made me realize it made me realize I'm really good at helping fit people. Yeah, you know, if you're fit, I'm a legend in, you know, like, I know how to, I know what you need from the exercise experience. And so you know, like, again, I, I know that game really well. And so at that moment, it was a real kind of confronting moment for me. And I determined that at that moment, I want to put some of my focus in my career into helping those who are failing with exercise. And so at that time, I had a running business, and we were training half marathon people. And so we decided we'd start a beginner running group, and we started a, a beginner 5k running program. And it was a real, it was a team training experience three sessions a week, targeted at beginners. And we have probably about six months working creating it. And when it first started, it basically failed. But the first group we ran through, pretty much no one ran 5k. And it was a real disappointing experience for me because like, I really wanted to help these people. But ultimately, it was a it was another kind of moment where I realized I didn't actually know how to help these people. Because these people have a completely different set of problems and a different journey. They need to go on with exercise and what what else is, which is ours is ultimately we just want to destroy ourselves, you know? Yeah, you know, we just want to walk away from the workout knowing, we feel really satisfied that we've pushed yourself to a certain level. And it's almost the worst thing you can give to the beginner. And so I did this 5k experience, it failed, but I didn't give up. I don't know I've got it. I've got stuck at this. And then we did the second group. And I think we had somewhere around 40 people who signed up and 37 of the minute running to 5k. And many of those went on to do a half marathon. So in that moment, I knew I was onto something and for the next five or 10 years we've just developed this product and It's been really we've trained over 4000 people to run 5Ks and most of those have gone on to do half marathons.

Will:  05:06

And those are primarily people that are coming from nothing, right? It's zero to 5k is the prouduct? 

Bevan  05:13

You know, our demographics kind of 35 to 60.

Will:  05:17

Overweight, deconditioned, out of exercise...

Bevan  05:19

Deconditioned, vulnerable, and insecure. Yep. Like, you know, they, their self talks, I hate exercise, always fail with exercise. You know that the hardest thing for us to do is...

Will:  05:31

I'm past my prime, my body is giving.

Bevan  05:35

Yeah. And also, they will say, oh, I've got bad knees. So I can't do this, you know, they've got massive limiters in front of them. And yeah, they're hardest part is to get them to sign up once they sign up with line because we know how to help them along the way. But they're so scared, you know, they're so scared of failure. And so, so over the years, we just, we've figured out that formula. So like other people who join our 5k program, over 90% of them end up running 5k. And again, these are the unconditioned, you know, insecure, you know, vulnerable people around exercise. So we kind of figured that out. And I wrote a book a few years ago called the fitness attitude, and it was a, you know, it was a kind of, you know, I good feedback on it. But it was very much just kind of subjects that are kinda talked about on my podcast. And I remember at the time, someone gave me a bit of, they just kind of said, I'm not really sure how much is new to the game, in this book, you know, and maybe that's fair, I think maybe I put the fitness angle on it. But, you know, fair enough. And it did, it did make me think, you know, what, I need to do something for what I'm doing get up to five and bring it to the world. Yeah, because when we think about fitness content, you know, particularly like, you look at fitness books, they're either weight loss, specific movements. So it might be how to get a better become a better runner, or the mind, you know, the how to be the mind game. There's nothing out there for those who are failing. Yeah. And so, you know, a couple years ago, I sat down, I thought, Okay, I'm gonna write a book for those who are failing. But I wanted to design it in a way where it's kind of a journey. So the book works like this basically, is, you know, if you interjected and kind of introduced the concept and the basic kind of things, but there's kind of 10 lessons people have to learn. But the one thing I've learned working with beginners, is the belief changes when you create experiences that are safe and realistic, that they can succeed. And I say it again, because really important, they believe changes when you create experiences, which are safe and realistic, that they can succeed. And so like, if I get up to five groups, people don't join us, they're gonna like running like that. And I think they're gonna fail. Like, they actually think they're gonna fail coming into it. Always about six weeks, come up to us, and they say, even I see other runners. And I think I'm like them. Or they'll say, even a company, we're like running. Now, what's happened the next six weeks is we've created a safe environment, at a level of exercise where they can succeed and every time and I've basically had like 18, to 20 different experiences, which are starting to shift their belief around themselves. Now, these people still haven't got that long term submit of exercise, right? When we get people up to half marathons, which is normally like a year to a year and a half journey. That's when they've got to that point. And the ultimate point we're trying to get to is, I feel dissonance if I'm not exercising. So like you and I, if we miss exercise, you know, like if we had a month of exercise would be feeling like we're losing ourselves completely a year. You know what I mean? And dissonance is a really good thing, because it keeps us aligned to it.

Will:  08:33

We talked about this on the last podcast, actually, I remind how if you're a person that works in fitness, or does lots of fitness stuff, it's difficult for you to actually put yourself in the mindset of someone that doesn't, because it is such an intrinsic part of your personality, like I exercise, I mean, I got into exercise for aesthetic reasons, because I wanted to lose weight, because I wanted to be fat, because I like sport. But now I if I'm injured, I will still go for a long walk, because I know, just getting outside physical activity and it doesn't need to be heavy or hard. But you know, lifting lifting my heart rate for a sustained period is something that will make you sleep better will make me happier, will just lift my mood entirely. But it's hard for me to think of not being like that. And so it's often hard to put yourself in the mindset of someone that doesn't have that intrinsic motivation. And I think most fitness instructors through the nature of becoming a fitness instructor love fitness. And so they're coming from a different headset.

Bevan  09:25

And also everything you have and I have as well was it's a part of our identity. You know, we it's ultimately the kind of endpoint of this book is we're trying to get people where that place where it's because the book is a let's do a four week challenge. You know, it's how do we create a lifetime love of exercise. And so you so this is kind of his team listens. And basically in each chapter, I kind of introduce I tell a story which reveals a listen. And then there's a challenge that goes alongside it because I want to create an experience that someone can actually start to shift themselves. Then from there within the challenge, I give them the rules of the challenge. and the strategies and the mindsets of the challenge. So like, this isn't rocket science stuff, but it's just an a format where people can believe so like, the first, the first chapter or the first I call them baby steps, the first baby step is, you got to learn how to start excited, you're learning how to get out the door basically. Now, what most people who aren't exercising do is they never prioritize exercise. This is the biggest problem. And no, they know they need to bring exercise into their life, but it's the thing they'll do tomorrow. And here's, here's the thing, this is always a reason why I can't start today. But the problem is, there's always going to be a reason why you can't start tomorrow, you know, and often, these are really justified reasons, you know, often your life is busy, you get regular exercise or still face those same problems. So it's prioritization problem. So the first thing we're gonna do is we're going to help them learn to fit exercise in their life. So the first rule was learn to get out the door with the right attitude. The first challenge is to do 12 excitations in a month. But the rules are things like you're not, the exercise has to say mentally and physically extremely easy. So if you do 12 sessions, where you go for a five minute walk, in my mind, you have one, now people are gonna go pick it up for walks, they're gonna do anything for me, or they're not, you know, you're not gonna get any physical results in five minute walks. But we're trying to teach you how to get out the door. And you're never gonna start exercise until we start prioritizing it and your timetable in your life. Yeah, and so the first rule is as a mentor, because if we go up to 12, 30 minute runs, well, that's a mental barrier, you're not going to do it. Whereas if you go, five minute walk, of course, I can do that. And that's what we're trying to do both physically and mentally at a level where I know I can succeed. So you can whenever roses, you're not allowed to measure the results of the physical training, because you're not going to get metaphysical results in it for his period. And if you're looking to lose weight, and you know, choose your heart rate, and all the rest of in that first month, and you're not getting that you're going to feel like a failure. So the only thing we're measuring is, did you get out the door? So did you get that door? Did you start your exercise and that first month, have you started your total winner in my mind. And that's what we're trying to encourage them to do. So basically, then what I do is like, given kind of the rules and the strategies to help them be successful in that first period of time. And at the end of that first month, what they've learned is how do I fit exercise into my week, and then from there, then we start to go on to next. So like, the next part of the journey is, I fundamentally believe you see the people who are most passionate about exercise, if they have a movement they love. You know, and the great thing about movement is because there's so many types of it. Yeah. You know, and I always I struggle with people who've got shit on movements. I struggle with people who should on CrossFit or people who should own runners or, like, it's such a stupid way of thinking. 

Will:  12:46

I follow that James Smith, you know, the British... Yeah, like I like a lot of what he says especially around nutrition and and, you know, body image and all that sort of stuff. But he really, really shits on spin classes. And it's one of my like, most annoying things. Because if someone like likes going into a dark room and listening to music and just spending their legs over, and that's how they get their exercising. Great. Any movement is better than no movement

Bevan  13:09

To me, if you're dicking on, sorry, can I swear on the show, because you're crapping on a movement, what you're doing is you're putting a barrier up to somebody wanting a fixed size. Yeah. ticularly those people who aren't in again, the main job is getting people moving. Now. Sure, there's, you know, if you want to be a high performer, and you're looking for a real high level goal, you know, we can argue this, you know, some metrics of you know, small things, but yeah, but realistically, if someone finds like it's funny, or I'd like you to do a running group, and she end up doing half marathons, you're really good. Nina, she kind of moved away from us. And she end up cutting my hair about two years later. And she was a hairdresser. And she was telling me about dances. She does dance, and she does like goes twice a week and she has competitions. Just ultimately patient about dance. Now we bought her into fitness with running.

Will:  13:56

So she wasn't a dancer before the run. 

Bevan  13:59

Yeah, yeah. And then after that, she couldn't throw I'm gonna try something else. And she started. Yeah, she's gonna dance for the rest of your life. Like and you could see she was passionate,

Will:  14:09

You must have felt like that was a real win. Even if...

Bevan  14:13

Yeah, and it's for me, it's like, I'm fine. You know, like, my job is to get as many people moving as possible. And if I open the door, and they go somewhere else who gives a crap, I've opened the door. And so you know, like, our next job is to help them. So the kind of the next chapter is helping them learn how to find a movement they love. Because if we can help you find is that question of people who say, What's the best? What's the best move for result? All the answers you love?

Will:  14:38

Well, I did a podcast on this recently, like a bite sized one. It was kind of like, is there a best type of exercise? And the answer is the one that you will do.

Bevan  14:44

Yeah, exactly. And if you love the movement, because, you know, people who aren't excited, don't feel good motivation will talk. And I introduced lots of tools and all the chapters that work along and based on where they are and all the rest of it. But if you love the movement, motivation comes a lot easier. it, doesn't it? Yeah. You know, like, you know, when you started a movement, what was what was the first moment when you loved.

Will:  15:06

I mean, I played sport, but I was never a good at it was when I actually was when I went to high high in high impact high intensity aerobics class when the music was going, I was moving in time and the music, not a very good dancer, but I can move to the beat. And I just felt like, I'm good at this. I like it. It's fun, and I'm good at it. And I'm getting a sweat up. And it was like, so it was, that was the first time that I really loved moving because with sport, I was fast. And I was strong, but I had very bad hand eye coordination here in New Zealand, because it's pretty. But I felt like you know, I have fitness and so when it was just moving to the beat, but not in a dancey way just in a like It's like moving. It was yeah, that's when I kind of found that I sort of hit my point. Obviously, I've done it ever since. 

Bevan  15:49

Well, look at that moment changed your life. Yeah. You know, like, really, that moment of you work in sort of a movement that you lived, you literally have changed your life because of that moment. You know, and, and so what we're gonna do is we're going to in the second chapter, what we're doing is we're, we're getting the to explore movements. But we've got to make it really safe for them. Because let's be honest, fitness environments can be really intimidating. You know, there can be really intimidating if you're if you're 120 kg, and you haven't done anything in a long time, going into a fitness environment can be really intimidating. So in the second chapter, what I'm doing is I'm giving them an opportunity to challenge us to basically explore, I think, six different exercises over a certain period of time.

Will:  16:28

I got asked a, a there's Men's Fitness Day coming up very soon, I got asked to contribute to an article on why men don't do group fitness. And my answer was, firstly, men do do group fitness, they play sport, and that's fitness in a group. Secondly, they do CrossFit and they do stuff the reason men don't do classic studio based group and this is because they're too scared of looking stupid, moving to music, there's there's that whole like Jane Fonda Association and you know, kind of like anachronistic idea of what robots used to be. But primarily, it's that they see everyone moving and beat with the music. And they're like, if I jumped when everyone else is not jumping, I'm gonna I'm gonna step out. And I'm gonna stand out. And that's what really keeps people from because I've gone from teaching a choreographed class to a exactly the same movement, non choreographed class, and having guys watching the class and then joining in. And the reason was, is that they saw people doing burpees, all at the same time. And then they saw people doing burpees all at different times. And that's when they felt like they would join. And intimate, right,

Bevan  17:25

Really, really isn't it. So, you know, so what I've got to do in this second chapter as I hate to do because I've got to help them find the moment they love. You know, and, and the thing is, people won't know what that moment is, like, you know, some people will end up doing MMA fighting, you know, you never think, you know, like, who knows what that is? Yeah, we don't know until we try. But again, we've got to keep it safe. So I give them the rules and strategies and mindsets that allows a beginner to go into this world.

Will:  17:51

I'm really curious, tell me what those are. Because like, how do you get someone to, because I'm trying to think of six different modalities. And I've recently come back to London to clean up my flat and I found my goggles. And I've found all these various implements of sport that I've done that I've gradually gotten out of the habit of doing. And I actually forgot that I used to go to pineapple dance studios, like twice a month to do a dance class, just because I knew it was good for me. But I've got into my old person patterns of doing the same exercises over and over. How do you get someone to try something new, especially someone who's brand new to movement?

Bevan  18:24

I think the first thing is you've got to let them be a beginner. Yeah, you know, you've got to, you know, like one of the rules have got me here in front of me. So one of the rules is to treat yourself as a beginner. And so you're going into the world with the objective of as always I'm doing is I'm trying something. And so I'm, I am a total beginner, I'm going to be the worst there. I'm going to have a laugh at myself. If I only do 10 minutes, that's okay. You know, and it's so I'm not going in the doing it judging or spotlighting thing we have, you know, I'm going to think about other people. Like my only objective is just go and go. Do I enjoy this movement? You know, and I think that's a really important thing. Because if you give people permission to be a beginner, it shifts how they walk into something. Whereas if they go and going,

Will:  19:07

I was gonna say something that I think we like speaking for driven as instructors who listen to this podcast, as an industry, it's something that we need to get better at nurturing because you need to do the whole who's new put your hand up, which is the worst thing possibly do right? Like you need to be able to stand out. No, you're Yeah, please, if you're feeling really nervous, can you get yourself more nervous now? But like you need to understand who's in your class. So if you see someone new, you can come up and meet them in a one on one way in a way that's not going to make them feel even worse. But this is it's it's a talk for a different podcast, but understanding how as Group Fitness Instructors, we can make spaces more safe for new people. And I don't mean safe movement-wise, I mean, safe, emotionally.

Bevan  19:50

Totally. In this chapter, I've tried to make it in a way where the person has to take a bit more responsibility because what they're going to experience they're going to experience Some environments which are brilliant at that, yeah, but they're also going to experience some environments, which aren't so good at that. And so I've got to make it as safe as possible. 

Will:  20:06

Yeah. And to take it on the chin a little bit, right? Yeah,

Bevan  20:09

exactly. And like one of the things I talk about is all you're just all, you know, don't worry about the environment, so much just worry about the movement at this stage. Yeah, you know, and so what you this is what I'm trying to do. And then we kind of move on in an opening, where I'm trying to get people to is the next few chapters about finding once I found the movement, finding the community that goes with that movement, and that community will have, you know, because the thing I learned most of our beginner group is the reason we're successful, is we create community. Yeah, you know, and I'm sure everyone who's an instructor, especially for those who've been in there for a long time, who are good with their business, have built a community, you know, and so if we can, if you can find movement, because what community does is it gives you camaraderie, it gives you accountability, it gives you belonging, it gives you identity, you know, it's all just really powerful stuff. But because there's two piece parts of the community, community is the community, and in is the leadership and mentors within the community. So I'm teaching people how to move towards these things and what to look out for. And then we go on, and it's kind of all the steps, you know, they now go on to to the first proud goal. So one thing I learned, you know, we did this talk about in the book, so I, here's one of the biggest problems, were getting a product, there's people were scared to join. And so I thought I need to create, you know, always trying to problem solve. So I thought, I'll do a walking group, I'll do a walking group that gets people ready to run, you know, because it seemed logical. And the whole idea is I'll do four weeks, where they'll do some basic strength, go for a walk, getting into the habit, and then you know, then you'll be ready to do get five. So I spent months on it's been quite a bit of money developing it couldn't give it away. Like, I couldn't give it away. Like, seriously, it was like, literally, like six months wasted my life. Yeah, and, and I couldn't figure out why. And then I remember on the phone one day, I was speaking to someone, someone rang me up about my five paid program. And I remember just, like something clicked in me, running 5K's is a really sexy goal for somebody who's not excited. You know, like, and you see this when people run 5k with us, they are so proud of themselves, you go on their Facebook page, it's like the won the lotto. You know, like, it's a goal, it's...

Will:  22:17

It's a bit like a person doing a marathon, right? Like, it's, it's a stretch goal that you can totally run out will appreciate and recognize.

Bevan  22:24

Yeah, and it's really important. So we kind of set up the foundation by getting a prioritization, finding a movement, finding your community, and your leaders. And then we're going to seek the first fitness goal, but to me, that needs to be I call it a proud goal, or a 60 goal, it needs to be a goal, which, when they achieve it, they are just stupidly over the moon about themselves, you know, because, again, it's a higher level of motivation. Now, also, it's got to be realistic. You know, and I talked about this in this chapter, but it's got to be realistic around how you actually, can you actually do this, why a 5K goal for beginners is really good. If you can manage them really wise in a kind of a 8-10 week period, we can get in there. Whereas you know, what most people do I need to bring fitness and I'm gonna do a marathon or an Ironman. Yeah, exactly what he's done recently, all over the two years, you know, so and so, yeah. And then we teach them how to go on to succeed in the goal, we know that, and it kind of works through that. And then the last couple chapters, I have this thing called the circle of fitness. And one thing I talked about, and many people listening to this will understand, as I talked about these four types of exercise exercises, there's a person who never exercises, the yo yo person, which has a lot of people that will have moments that come and go,  the habit person and I think a lot of us are in this place where we've got a really good habit of exercise, but we've stopped growing. You know, like, we tick the box. And there's nothing wrong with being a habit person. But then there's a fourth person has to thriving person. And a thriving person is that person when you're getting, when you best have exercises, when you're growing, you're developing yourself, you're challenging yourself the possibility, and ideally in an exercise life is you want to be at least a habit, but you want to have thriving moments throughout it. So I kind of is teaching them how to be that. They're not the one of the last chapters is a really important one is how to take ownership of your fitness identity. You know, how do you become us? How do you see yourself as an exerciser? How do you feel that dissonance and I give tools and strategies there and then the last chapter, because ultimately help somebody else love exercise. So by this stage, because the whole book's, probably a year journey, you know, the 10 kind of things that you do within it. You know, you'll start seeing change really quickly because each chapter has got its own little challenge. But realistically to get you to become a permanent lover of exercise is probably your journey. And by the end of it by then you've got the community, you've got your movement, you've got to hit some challenges, you're moving down that pathway. Your identity shifted quite a lot. Then the idea is well, you're gonna help other people have exercise. So you're going to one of the last project of the book is choose somebody in your life who is not exercising, and hold their hand through their first exercise experience, you know, and it's kind of the full circle of the whole thing. So, yeah, that's kind of the how that works.

Will:  25:11

So, tell me a little bit more about the process of the book. Because I know that because I've been and I've obviously been friends for a long time. And Bev has a podcast, which we can link to where he talks about fitness behavior, is that the...But it's about his behavior and all manner of other things. Basically, anything that Bev is looking at at the moment, and if you know Bevan, you know that Bevan has read every single self-help book that has ever been published, and love has a lifelong love of learning. What made you choose to publish the book the way you've published it? Because I know you've done it yourself rather than going through others routes?

Bevan  25:45

Yeah. And I published a book a few years ago, and I went for publisher. If you're an instructor who is listening to this, you can actually make money by helping me spread the word of this book. Ultimately, it was it was kind of a business model thing. When I published my first book out of a publisher, and they were great. I know, you know, absolutely amazing. What a publisher will do for you, is they'll help your product be better. So they'll make your product better than what you could do by yourself.

Will:  26:11

Yeah. Give you access to things that you couldn't get on your own, give you advice that you couldn't figure out for yourself.

Bevan  26:17

Yep. And basically, what I read in my first book is I wrote the book I gave it them, came back later, it was a better product. They gave you some good PR at first. And then you know, then that's it. Now, admittedly with my first book, I just kind of wrote it, there was no real objective to it. It was just kind of like, you know, here's a book, you know, and...

Will:  26:34

I feel like I've got a book in me. 

Bevan  26:35

...Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, I didn't, once once it came out for six weeks, I did some PR, and you know, something, okay, whereas this one, I really believe in this book, and it is a passion project, but I'm very lucky in life, because I made some good investment decisions when I was younger, that I'm the person who can spend two years on a project like this. And it has been two years, it's been...I've probably averaged 15 hours a week for two years. And we've probably, you know, we've spent $40,000 on it, plus my time, which you know, if you've put quite a bit of expenses and resources gone into this. But the reason we did it is because we wanted to control the business model more. And, but we did actually use a company called Mary and Mary Egan is basically a publishing company that you pay, so you're getting the quality of a publisher that you're paying. So the books, I couldn't be happier with the books have done a great job and getting to that next level. But two things, first of all, what, what they talk about with content, this is really interesting. This is kind of the nuts and bolts of a content biz...the person who can afford the biggest audience will win. The first person who can afford the biggest audience will win, so...

Will:  27:43

Regardless of the quote, like quality, quality comes second, yeah. It's a really hard thing to accept, I think, but you've just got to accept that, especially now on the days of social media, it's not...the best person doesn't win. And accepting that and rolling with it and understanding what it means. And like, I will segue into why I think this is relevant for Instructors in a second, but that's something that you need to understand is that like, sometimes you just have to accept the way things are and go with what you can then carve out your own niche based on what you're able to do.

Bevan  28:15

Yeah, and it's not that you can't build an audience free. It's just a lot more time and effort.

Will:  28:20

Yeah. And even even more difficult now than it was in the early days.

Bevan  28:25

Even podcasting, like I got, I got a good podcast just because I was early. You know what I mean? I don't think I could build a podcasts today, if I started from scratch and I've got a good name and industry or it'd be a lot harder. So So with that in mind, I was like, okay, well, I need to create a model where I can make money to buy an audience. Yeah, basically, you know, and because, again, this is a passion project. You know, if I make some profit on it, that's nice. But it's not really my objective. You know, I've got my businesses investments. This is really the way I see every dollar I make, I just reinvest it, because I want to get people moving. But there's money that's, you know, you think your legacy of your life. If this book can help 1000s and 1000s of people around the world learn to love movement. Well, why wouldn't I want to put more money into it? So the first thing is we make a lot more money on the book, you know, we make most of the money on the book now, which is really great. So the basically, then way I see it is, there'll be a first push from my database and PR, that be doing some networking that I'm doing, that will get me the initial bunch of sales. Then from there, all that money comes in, we'll just be spending on figuring out how much does it cost to get us supply some of the book now we're selling the course as well. And of course, you know, there's different price points for the course, but the course you will make money on that as well. And so basically, which will be just, you know, doing the research on the marketing strategy around, you know, the book sells for 37. Can we sell a book for 20 bucks, you know, and if it doesn't, we just because, again, just want to get more people moving in. If I know I can sell a book for 20 bucks, and we're selling for 37. Well, I'm just going to put a shitload of money into it because then I get more reach. The second thing and this is where those instructors listening to this is really important. We're doing an affiliates model and if you don't know what an affiliate model is, It's basically it's you get commission on your sale. And what we've got as the systems it, basically what they do is you sign up to be an affiliate, and it will give you a link that knows it's you. So like, let's say we're all signed up to be an affiliate, we'll give a special link for will. And when you send people to link, it looks like our website, so looks exactly like a website, but it knows that you've sent that person there. So if you get your link, and you send it to your community, or you put on your socials or whatever, you get commission on the different options. So like, if you buy someone buys the audio book, you get $12, if they buy the print book, you get 12. If you if I buy the audio and give them you get 18 if they buy in the sales process, we offer the course half price, yeah, so they buy the course at half price, you get $80. And if they buy the full price course you get 120. So like, for example, if you sold 100 books, 10 courses, you end up making like two and a half thousand bucks, you know, and that can be an ongoing thing in your little business, you can have, you know, occasionally used to do some post and do some links. And what that gives me the ability to do is it's a win win, because it helps me help more people, it means you can make money and helping, you know, promote something that's really I believe we can help get them moving. I also think it'll be good for your business. Because if you ask someone who's not you've got people in movement in your area who aren't moving. And let's say your people in your classes, pass this on to their friends, their friends, chances are they're going to try you. You know, and so...

Will:  31:24

I've been, I've talked about this a lot on this podcast, which is the the exercising market is very much captured by Apple, big box gyms, CrossFit, all the people that are already exercising, they're already exercising and your clients that are already exercising, they've already found you. The green field, the market that you can capture as a fitness instructor who is listening to this podcast is people that aren't exercising. So it's exactly the type of of person that this book is designed to cater around. And the what this book is trying to get them to do is get to a point where they become your customer.

Bevan  32:03

In a really safe and wise way. Yeah, you know what I mean? So I suppose there's a couple of things. So like, if you're listening to us in and you've got, you're in our fitness world, by all means jump on and become an affiliate. I'm sure we'll put a link in the website, in the show notes, but jump on them become affiliate and we can make the money, that's great. But more importantly, we can get people moving. And probably the only thing I would challenge you on the you know, Will and I were talking earlier about how some environments are great looking after new people when they walk into it. And some environments suck. And so if you are gonna start promoting this book to your world, do that third person thing of what would my experience be like if someone was 120 kg and walked into my world? Yeah. You know, what, what, what's the experience they're going to have and really do some good, honest self assessment. And because let's say someone, you let's say, one of your members recommends the book in there, bring a friend along. And I feel like if I were in your world, you know, you haven't delivered on the promise. And there's what we're saying. There's so much opportunity for non-exercisers. You know, for a business, there's so much opportunity if we can create it, it's actually a huge market. And...

Will:  33:06

And the most meaningful market, right, like as you talked about the conversation with Mit right at the start and Mit is someone who like walks the talk, she was went to be a manager and one of the big Les mills in New Zealand and then went on to the local council is very involved in making her community more fit. And it's if you think about like, and so one of the reasons I wanted to get to get on my soapbox for a second that I wanted to get people to talk about this book is that Beven and I as I said, I've been friends for 20 years. And I actually remember sitting at your place couple of years ago, and you asked me the question of what would you want your legacy to be and you were talking about the inception of this book, it was kind of like the start of the pandemic kind of you had written the skeleton of the outline. And I had a think about it. And that's very much helped me with kind of figuring out where the ships should go in terms of like, what are we really setting out to do. And what I absolutely want my impact on the fitness world to be is enabling instructors to get their communities fitter. And we are moving into we're starting to get some big gym partnerships. And this is all really good because it brings our brand out and it gets ourselves out to more people. But at the end of the day, I'm more, I made, like I feel more fulfilled and and more happy by knowing that there's an instructor who's got someone off the couch, who was pre-diabetic into a regime of exercise that allows them to live longer and see their grandchildren grow up and graduate. That's the kind of and I'm not going to see all of those things. But I know if I want to feel it, I know that I'm contributing to that effort. And I know that that is at the heart of what this book is about. And also the people listening to this. The good thing is, is that there's very few times in life where you can do something for professional sort of professional purpose to make money that is also just net good for the world. There's a lot of people that work in jobs where you know, they're doing it to make money and that's fine and there's no there's certainly nothing to feel bad about that but they're not really adding to the, to the overall health or wealth of the society that they live in. As fitness instructors, we have this great opportunity to get fitness to the 80% of people that don't exercise that are going to die early have diseases that they could avoid, if they found what we are giving out. And so making that connection is something that I feel really strongly about, and that I know you do, too. And that anyone listening to this, I hope does too, because you can do that. And you can also increase your own sort of professional ability to make money from it. And yeah, it's just a, like a blessed circle.

Bevan  35:36

And it's again, going back to the business model, that's what I did, because I wanted to create more wins. Yeah, you know, you know, I wanted to create a situation where you can win by spreading the word, I'll win, we'll get more people moving. And going back to that the value of, of our work, you know, like, again, I still teach the hard class, I still love the crap out of it, you know, but I'm very fortunate because pretty much every day of my life, I get feedback from somebody who's the work that business and I've done is really changed your life. And in, you know, you talked about prolonged life, but it's just the lived experience as well. You know, when you bring exercise into somebody's life, confidence grows, and possibility in other areas in your life grows, they, I gotta get back to my six lessons so much better, because there's all these but you know what I mean? Like, it's, it's, we know, your life is just better if you've got movement in it, especially when we go to that place where you've got a community where you belong, and you're growing, and you're thriving, you know, and that's why this book isn't just how to start exercise, it's how to be passionate, you know, and, you know, like, we go back to that legacy thing. And one conflict I always have in my life, because I come from poor, like, I literally lived in the poorest part of town and a flat, you know, failed school, I'm the classic kind of rags to riches kind of story. And I've always had, I always have this comfort, because one of my friends is one of the greatest investors in Christchurch up with millions and millions and millions of dollars. And he's always in his great property, if it's a really nice guy, and it always goes to me by me, you know, and this is always a story of of me to go to be an extremely wealthy guy who owns a property. I'm really proud of the fact that I haven't spent two years of my life writing a book yet, you know, it's actually about, you know, because when I get it, when you think about your life, you'd spend a lot of time working, don't you? You know, you really do, it's probably one of the main things you do. And so when you get to the end of what you go back to the question, that Legacy question is, what do you want to look back on? And for me, I go to a big bank account, and lots of houses, or can I have this project which you already have on us? Yeah, I am. Doubtful moment right now, because we were recording this and Will and I are doing this a couple weeks before it's released. And you have this moment, you know, I've spent so much money time resources like this could go nowhere. But I'm glad I'm the person who's willing to take that risk.

Will:  38:00

Yeah, and you know, what I think a lot of one of the sad things about the pandemic is that I think a lot of people who either worked in fitness, or worked part time and fitness or did fitness as a hobby that they did out outside of their main job. Loved it, just found that because of gym closures, and because of the pains of you know, trying to make their life work, otherwise fell out of fitness and say, in a really, really sad way. And so we've lost a lot of people from the industry that were in it for the right reasons, but have, like, just found it too hard, and did get really hard. But as we're coming back, it's, I think it's important to take that minute and think, would I how do I feel doing something that I know is having a really positive and this not to be all touchy feely, because at the end of the day, I'm quite actually quite a cynical person, despite what I'm saying. Like I, the one of the things I got from the pandemic, and this comes from the discussion I had with you kind of early in the pandemic, when I managed to get back to New Zealand was, it's really nice to know that you are doing something that is creating some good in the world. And very often you get so caught up in the fact that it's hard and that it's hard to make money. And I know that I've been in that situation with you, we just launched a brand new thing was shift where it took us a long time out of element agencies in the Ukraine and got like stopped by war and ended up costing us way more money. All these things were really difficult. We launched it, it's great. And now the stress has come off. But the whole the whole way through. We knew we were doing it and we were doing it because we thought that it could allow our instructors to bring more fitness to more people and that was the Northstar that we're working towards. And you know, times get tough and sometimes you forget as a fitness instructor what you're doing and the number of times that someone in the team or my sister that I work with his head to go did you see this Facebook post that this person put about the change that you've helped them or that we as shifted help them make and every fitness instructor will have this but so often Like I do this on my podcast, I'll have 90 good reviews and then one bad review. And I'll just obsess about the bad review and think, why don't they like me? Why don't they like me and ignore the good ones. And I think that it's important that we take the time to like to look at the positive impact that we're having, because it's very easy to gloss over it, and to forget about it, and it's important.

Bevan  40:19

Well, and you know, like, unfortunate thing, because it is a tough game fitness, you know, we all know that. But unfortunately, we lose a lot of great people, when they're kind of in their peak. Because you know, like, the longer in the game, as long as you keep evolving, you should be a bit better at what you do. 

Will:  40:32

Yeah, well the more empathy you add, especially if what you care about is maximum health to the maximum people then getting old and having a knee injury or a back injury, and not being able to do what you did before, that makes you accessible and empathetic, and should allow you to bring more people in. But because of the way our industry favors youth, and youth and looks, people think I'm no longer relevant, therefore I get out of it right at the time that they when they absolutely shouldn't, which is one of the other big things that I'm passionate about.

Bevan  41:01

And you're a really good example, Will, because you have made, you know, you're unlike me, you you're actually really intelligent man. And you know, you are and you're, you're a trained lawyer, you know, you had a very, you had a pathway, which was very kind of follow this path and your student rewards, which are important. But you didn't you decided no, I'm gonna, you know, and you've taken risks, and you know, and, and the thing is, you know, we're very lucky because we were at this point in our life with within yesterday's giving us today's opportunity. Yeah. You know, and, but, but we've made decisions to be that person, you know...

Will:  41:36

I did, I did have a couple of moments when when SH1FT first started, where I, it was hard, and it was really hard to make it work. And it was stressful. And I thought I should just stay being a lawyer and I looked at, say, someone that I was working with, and they were, you know, they weren't doing a job that I wanted to do, but they were making good money, and they're a little bit further financially ahead. And then it's yeah, it's only in the last couple of years, it's when I turned 40, actually, that I had a bit of a midlife look back and realized, if I had to do over the last 10 years, what I want to be, you know, twice to add two or three times the wealth that I've got, or what I want to have done what I've done and beyond, on the path to impacting a lot of people, because that's kind of where I feel I've got to in my career is like at a point where I'm just starting to really have an impact on having an impact on other people's ability to have an impact, because that's, I want to be the person doing it. I'm not really that excited about being a celebrity, but being a person that allows other instructors to find their place is what motivates me. And it's exciting. 

Bevan  42:37

And I love, because I've talked to you a lot about SH1FT, and I don't really I know, I know your basics of the product, I see what you put on your socials and stuff, and you've told me a bit about it. But the thing I always loved about you will, because you always talk about, I'm helping the small instructor do great work in your community. You know, like, I don't know, I'm sure you use expansion and all the ways of moving forward, but you've always come from, I'm making it easy for the instructor in your community that wanted their local school hole that you know, to go into, you know, put their job, they make it easy to do the fitness part of the job so they can do the other side of the job really well. You know, and that's, you know, there's, we can build, you know, if we can build good strong fitness communities, we'll get more people moving, you know, and that's what it's all about. And that's, again, you identified this earlier, a really great leader in a community that builds a good community will always beat the big chain. Although they'll always be able to make a good business model where they can do fine because they can just do the touch points that big chains can't do. You know, they just got that real human connection that like, I did a little kind of video thing that's everyday like, my wife and I, every time we get in the car after we do our runners on a Saturday morning, we're talking about our runners and we're talking about oh, so and so is going through this really hard thing right now and beamer being we just care, you know, and you can't do that when you're trying to deal with 5000 people, you know, you know, that's that's, that's our advantage is that actually we can build deeper connections in really powerful ways. And, you know, we have advantages that we should be using. So

Will:  42:37

So now I've gone deep into why why being a fitness instructor is the most meaningful career you can have, tell me if you're a fitness instructor and you're listening to this I like the reason I got you on this is because I believe in what you're doing and what you've written. Tell me why someone listening to this should buy the book and then give that book or refer that book to the people that they think need it.

Bevan  44:24

Okay, there's two things First of all, you got to help people make a decision to make change. That's the that's the first thing most people kick the ball up the road. And is it the first decision someone needs to make when they're not exercising is the decision to make change, but the problem is, the second thing they do is they do everything wrong once they make that decision. You know what I mean?

Will:  44:45

Because they aim too high, don't create the habit...

Bevan  44:48

Yeah, yeah. Make it an enjoyable experience, do it by themselves, download some app thing that's gonna be the answer, you know, so, you know, so A, we're gonna help people make a decision to make And the thing is often people do make that decision. But then they make all the mistakes after the fact. Yeah, this book here is a) we can help them make a decision to make change today. And b) it gives them a really safe and wise and proven pathway that can actually get into a place where a year from now there'll be that person we've talked about today. Secondly, obviously, on a business front, we've got this model that can work for you. And the website for the book is called passionaboutexercise.com. And again, I'm sure Will will put...

Will:  45:24

Yeah, all of the links and the affiliate link will be in the show notes and in the email that you will get to tell you that the show is being released.

Bevan  45:32

Yeah, and the great thing is with the affiliate program, it's a really simple process, you basically go through, it takes about 10-15 minutes to sign up, you get a special link, that's all you have to do. Then you spread the word about the book you put on your website and put in your socials. If anyone buys off you, you get commission we pay you once a month, you just get a check from us or you get payment from us once a month. It's it's really simple. Basically, we do all the work, all you do is spread the word. So and and ultimately fingers crossed with a very short period of time by you spreading the word of this book, you'll see people in your community who are going through this journey. And you know, and again, think about if that person does turn up, how do I make sure they win with me?

Will:  46:05

Yeah, totally. And look at it as a way of, of growing your community in a way that like helps that community to then grow a wider community of their own.

Bevan  46:15

Yeah, on this, go back to that last chapter. Because it's the ultimate is in any area of your life you're passionate about part of your job is to grow that passion. You know, like, really, as I remember, I remember I talk about this in the book years ago, I remember a guy called John Pickford. He was he was he was he was American guy. You Zealand's really unassuming like New Zealand for those around the world...

Will:  46:37

A little Kiwi Kiwi culture lesson right about now.

Bevan  46:40

Yeah, here we go. Kiwis. Were, like our crowds suck. You know? You know, like you look at the Palmy crowds you look at, you know, the Brazilian crowds, you know, because they expressive, you know, New Zealand crowds almost embarrassed to show off, you know, like,

Will:  46:56

It's a kiwi trope that no one wants to put their head up above the above the parapet because because we come from very egalitarian stock. Everybody's the same. Nobody is better than anyone else, which is...It's not good. But it's not bad.

Bevan  47:08

Don't express yourself. Yeah, yeah. As you said, there's good and bad. But there's a guy called John Pickford in like the 90s in New Zealand, and he was an American basketball coach. And he coached like the woman's New Zealand basketball team, which, let's be honest,

Will:  47:18

I know. Yeah, yeah, I know. Yeah. Yeah.

Bevan  47:21

And let's be honest, this guy, you know, New Zealand's basketball in that time was a very small sport, New Zealand, and a woman's New Zealand basketball team. Like, they should have got no PR, because there was kind of like a very part time, hobby thing. And it was not being sexist. It's just the position of the sport. Yeah. He was always in the media. And I remember I heard a kind of a, I heard the story of his kind of his life, I don't know, he'd like, this is your life interview. And he said, I always thought of my job as a) to make my basketball team do really well. But my job is to get more people playing basketball. You know, and if you're passionate, your job is to get more people doing your passion. And if your business is is fitness, that's your job so you know, this book, in theory will help you get more people moving and obviously be good for your business. But, you know, together if we can get more people here and the work you're doing, you know, we can make a healthier world, it's got to be good.

Will:  48:13

Yeah, I agree. I think that's a great place to leave it. Bevan James Eyles, thank you very much for joining us. And all of the details, everything we talked about will be in the show notes. Thank you very much.

Bevan  48:21

Awesome. Thanks, man. Thanks for having me.

Will:  48:23

Thank you for listening. If you're enjoying the show, don't forget to subscribe for all the latest episodes wherever you get your podcasts. And while you're there, please drop us a review. You can also get in touch with me at will@sh1ftfitness.com. I'm Will Brereto and you've been listening to Group Fitness Real Talk.