Sam  

This whole thing of like, I do this type of training, I do CrossFit, oh I dom I'm a, I go to Zumba, there is no good good or bad like you get a lot of water you get a lot of instructors and so called experts who sort of go, oh Zumba's crap, or you don't want to do Crossfit, you're going to get injured all the time. Who cares? Like, as long as you're doing something, but you're doing it well, and you're not getting injured, then then that should be the best workout for you.

Will:  

Hey, guys, and welcome to Group Fitness Real Talk where we talk about all the things that instructors need to know in the post pandemic world. This is Reality Bites, where we take a single bite sized piece of information that's important to Group Fitness professionals, and we discuss it for 10 minutes coming to a conclusion with a group fitness experts. Today's expert is Sam Rider. How are you, Sam?

Sam  

I'm good, fantastic.

Will:  

Ah, I see that we're improving. We're improving. Okay, so you know the deal. I'm going to set the timer for 10 minutes, I'm going to let you talk on this topic, and I want to hear everything you have to know. So today's topic is the concept of the best workout. So I want you to picture this. You're in the gym, a new client or someone new to exercise comes up and they say to you, I want you to tell me what the best workout is. Or I've heard that Barry's boot camp is the best workout in the world. Tell me your thoughts. 10 minutes starts now.

Sam  

So what is the best workout? Yes, so someone comes up to me says what's the best workout? The best workout is any workout, any workout is the best workout. Or I think you said before, the workout you didn't do is the best workout.

Will:  

The best workout is the workout that you will do. This is this is my view. So I don't want to put words in your mouth. But as you know, like, it depends because the best workout for a CrossFit champion is going to be different to the best workout for someone that is sedentary and sitting on the couch. And for them, the best workout is whatever will get them the fuck off the couch.

Sam  

Exactly, it's defining what best is. What does best mean, the best workout? Like for me every workout is the best workout because I'm doing something rather than nothing. And that's, my argument for example, my mom, God bless her, she's not here anymore. But when she used to ring me constantly asked me the same question. I want to lose weight? What's What can I do? What's the best best thing I should be doing? And I was like, what? Well, I know my mom. So Mum, the answer is anything.

Will:  

Because that's opposite to nothing.

Sam  

Yeah. So it's looking like you've just said I depends on that person. But yeah, any any workout is the best workout like as long as you're doing something but doing it well. I've mentioned before another podcast like how you move making sure that when you're moving, you're moving well and moving well for you how you move, looking at your your capabilities and moving with you. But my mum didn't do any exercise. So if she went out and did a walk, and that's going to be the best workout for if she went out and decided to go to the gym or do a gym session is the best way of anything, as long as you're doing something. And that's where most people need start. And I'm generalizing now and just novices, people don't train. But if if you're looking to start a training program, and you don't do anything, then just do something to do it, well, then get good. And then once you're really good at it, do something else, and then get really good at that and then do something out....And that is the best way to work.

Will:  

I agree. And I think that that comes to the crux of the question, right? Because I don't think this like, this isn't a question that people who exercise regularly ask, because they're aware that you know, you can have a workout that's a combination workout that targets everything, or you can have a focused workout, or you can have a weight workout, or you can have a cardio workout. And anyone who's in fitness knows that. This is a question that gets asked by people who are coming from a position of no knowledge and they want to like maximize their time and minimize the effort and often they're starting from nothing.

Sam  

And that's why I've answered it as that as that as that example of me do anything anyway. But yeah, it's it's like this whole thing of like, I do this type of train, I do CrossFit. I do, I go to Zumba and there is no good good or bad like you're getting a lot of unfortunately get a lot of instructors and so called experts who sort of go oh, Zumba is crap or you don't want to do Crossfit, you're going to get injured all the time. Who cares? Like as long as you're doing something but you're doing it well and you're not getting injured then then that should be the best workout for you.

Will:  

This is an interesting question because I disagree with a lot of people on this point. And that I think that as as sort of CrossFit and lifting and Instagram has come out. You have a lot of people who want to talk about, you know, correct lifting technique, or they want to talk about you know, if you're going to spend an hour working out you should be doing x y zed and I have to disagree in that if someone just turns up and does like if someone turns up provided they're not moving in an unsafe way I think We should preface everything with unsafe movement is never great. Yeah. However, if someone's not moving at all, and their choice is performing a movement with a really lightweight or no weight quite badly, but better than not moving at all, that is better than not moving. And I think there's some fitness professionals who will oh, you better off not doing anything and doing it wrong. I totally disagree. 

Sam  

And that's and that most of those haven't got a clue anyway, in terms of actually lifting, like, as long as it's moving, for me and moving for you are two differents things. So if you're gonna do movement, I'm gonna do a movement, just make sure that it's safe and effective for you safe effective me hence why the whole profession exists. Because trainers, you're supposed to be able to work that client and make sure they move well for them. And it's not about like, having the most amazing cleaning technique is make sure they're safe, and therefore are effective, because then they're not gonna get injured. And then they're going to come back to you and pay you for another session. And you're going to get to retain that client because they're injury free, and they're progressing. And that's the only way that it works the same in group X, but it's harder, because you've got a large group of people needs to be safe and effective for them to come back to your class. And you have their high numbers, those high volumes, people coming through the door, and it's, oh, yeah, this workout, I'm enjoying it, it's great. It's great, because they're not getting injured because they're moving safely and effectively.

Will:  

This makes me think of the, and this is the concept of the squat and Body Pump, right? And so you have a squat body pump and the ruling body pump for anyone that's taught, which like most fitness instructors? Yeah, yeah. But you don't go below parallel. And as CrossFit came in, and people started doing deep squats, and they will, oh, it's only a half squat. What's the point? Well, my view was always the point is Body Pump is designed to be taught to a wide range of people, most people don't have fantastic mobility, particularly once you hit the knee line, right? Like anything lower than that is going to put more stress on the hip, the ankle, the knee, if you're doing it correctly, and you have good mobility, it's obviously a better movement for your body, it's going to activate more muscle, it's going to work on more mobility. But if you're not able to actually watch that person, you're going to class of 30 people, then keeping it above the knee is probably not the worst idea. Your thoughts on this.

Sam  

On that movement, specifically? Yeah, it's kind of gone. It's kind of gone.

Will:  

And also, this is where I see body pump as just like a resistance cardio class. Like it's not a race, it's not a weight class. Let's be honest. It's, it's just moving with a little bit of weight, or, yeah,

Sam  

All Group X formats are because yeah, it's like, even ours, you can't, unless you could, you could apply heavy loads if you want to, but they need to be sensible about the rep ranges and the times that you're using the timeframe. But But yeah, like if we look specifically at the squat, it's a it's an interesting one, because the squat itself, like you said, you need to go past parallel, because you're going to learn for getting more of a stretch and potentially bigger range of motion recruit more muscle fibers. Well, now there's been science has come out and actually said that going parallel is suffice. And like you said, generally, for everybody that is a safe, effective range to work through. You could argue with functionality sitting on a chair most angles or degrees. You could, you could argue the ability of flexion dorsal, so plantar flexion, and dorsiflexion, promote more dorsiflexion more dorsiflexion of the ankle, people who have an inability to dorsi flex sufficiently, like yourself, for example, aren't going to get past parallel anyway. Or if you've got an inability at the hip to do the same thing. Or if you're not very stable and strong within your pelvis and your spine. You're not going to get a dip. So yeah, actually 90 degrees is is suffice or thighs, sorry, thighs parallel to the ground. It's not 90 degrees, because your knees are tracking forward. Yeah, thighs parallel to the ground will suffice

Will:  

So we're kind of talking here, we talked about this workout. Now we're talking about the best type of squat? And the answer is, it's the one that you do. Or it's the one that you're will do.

Sam  

As long as you're doing something, but you'd like when I'm saying that when I'd use example of do saying you're good at something else. Like if you don't want to get good at it, just make sure you are moving safely effectively, but there's something else you say because yeah, it does get boring doing the same thing and that but like to say

Will:  

well this is where Body Pump is great, right? Because it's not it's maybe not the best squat in the world. But you know, the music in the group class and all of the the instructor motivating you that gets someone in doing it and then doing a study that a crossfitter might think is substandard or suboptimal is better than no squat.

Sam  

Exactly. It's all about linking that mental, you know that psychological those endorphins of feeling great after workout as well as moving well make sure you injury free, like what might be best workout for you might not be the best workout for me. Like, I'm not too fast if the music's pumping and like everyone's like, ooh, but you might be and so but as long as as long as that we've said it's safe and effective then then that's the key and just doing something.

Will:  

I agree and so the answer to what's the best workout. Could be walking. Could be playing golf. Yeah, it could be could be like a game of like, what's the thing tennis on a string, what do you call that, pole tennis? Pickleball is becoming very popular in the US.

Sam  

If we go back to that there's people starting programs like for you to longevity if you techy progression be and continue to train and you've got enjoy it right you're not gonna do working dangerous. Most people say that oh, I don't go to him because I don't enjoy. Do something you do enjoy because that's gonna that's gonna be your best workout, the thing that you enjoy doing, just do that.

Will:  

And for 85% of the planet, just doing anything is going to be the best thing. Yeah, if your body because right now you're doing nothing. 

Sam  

Like if you're an athlete, it's a complete different thing. These are these are, this is a completely different topic.

Will:  

There's our time, I think I think we solve that one. So the best workout is the one that you will do. End of.

Sam  

Yeah. And just to also say like people that always go, oh, don't do that. Don't do this is rubbish, do this. That most the time they've never done that workout. They've never tried it. Like people that go, oh, Zumba's shit, don't do Zumba. It's like, have you done Zumba before? Well no, but, it's not lifting weights, is it? But same thing with like free weights and machines, oh free weights are better than machines. Why? Well, they're more functional. Are they? For what my nana, who can't do a squat with a bar, can she go on the leg press and do that safely and effectively. Yeah. Anyway. I'll shut up now.

Will:  

Okay, so today's topic is a piece of research that came across my desk recently, I'm going to start the timer, and we're going to talk about it, but it's all about the best time of day to exercise. So in this ground breaking research, it's established the best times of day to exercise. And in this study, an international team of scientists has carried out a study to help gauge how and why exercise performed at different times of the day can have different effects on the body. So that's the introduction, Sam, what's your initial thoughts?

Sam  

Why, why? Why why even spend the money, the time the effort into doing a study like this, when, like we've just mentioned on previous podcasts, you know, most people just need to be doing something and doing it safely. And effectively anything is going to be better than nothing. And yet we're looking at times of day for cells and metabolisms. And energy systems is absolutely crazy. In my opinion, this is madness, just trying to put the cart before the horse, you know, it's just, it's just mad, like why I don't get it, don't get it. And then if you just started reading it, and like to stop, because then when I did actually read through it, just even how it was done the research. So if you're going to look at any study, or any snippet you get from a magazine, you then need to obviously Google it and try and find the actual journal research itself and then decide yourself whether this is actually any good for it was reliable, well accepted. Well, did you read what that study was done on? 

Will:  

Tell me

Sam  

So it was done on mice.

Will:  

Hahahah. Which, it's surprising how often research gets quoted and the headline doesn't give you nearly enough of the context right?

Sam  

I actually delved into it, and I was like, hold on a minute. The article has like a picture of this woman in the gym, and I'm like, let me see how many people they used...

Will:  

Exactly. What was the control? Did they use all age ranges? All ethnicities? 

Sam  

Yeah. And then it was like, oh, this was from Nice. And I was like this cannot have been published in this magazine. Who is funding this?

Will:  

Here's the thing that I find interesting about this is that I actually do think that there is a place for scientists doing research on things that are of this depth and nature, that is fine. Understanding like the you know, the human circadian rhythm we know so little about like sleep, and like, general biological processes, like you think that we know a lot, but we really don't know that much at all. So having people whose focus is doing a PhD study, sitting in a laboratory studying this sort of stuff is really, really good. Where I take issue with this is the application. So I'm going to link to this article in the show notes. But this article says, After saying that this new study had been done, which we've obviously talked about, there was a quote which said these are incredibly important research findings that will enable health clubs spa and wellness operators to offer significantly more impactful interventions. Now we can design exercise to enable members and customers to achieve specific outcomes in terms of wellbeing. Enable operators to significantly raise their game to benefit instructors. Thoughts on that, Sam?

Sam  

Well, I owned a gym for about 7 years. And if I actually make that gym a 24 hour gym, and then start moving my timetable around and get people to come in and teach classes at times that they weren't teaching before, all because I'm trying to make sure someone has better sleep or it's just madness, there's just there's going to be detrimental to the health clubs gonna be beneficial. It's gonna it's gonna cause all sorts of problems. How is that going to work?

Will:  

Well here's the thing, is that like it is it's detrimental to the health club, because the reality is what we've specifically just talked about is how there are particular times and while it doesn't go into this depth in the article, what we can be certain of with the enough that we know is that there might be some certain times of day that work better for certain people, but it's exactly it's going to be individually Right. Like there's enough yeah, individual variation in the human race. 

Sam  

So take take me, take me, for example, if I've just come off night shift. The people listening, I'm working as a firefighter. So I'm coming for a night shift where I've been in from 6pm to nine in the morning. Like, is this gonna apply to me? Like, I don't think it is what's a they did it on my chest. And by the way, if they started doing it on, on actual people and their lifestyles, and so many people, so many things come into play Like nutrition work, work schedules, family life, like, like...

Will:  

What is the actual point of this research? When because the thing is, this research would be great if you were a, a, you know, a person on a spaceship going to another planet, and your sole job was to do things at the optimal time. Yeah, but society with kids and work and jobs and times.

Sam  

Yeah, or this would be great if I was Mickey Mouse. Do you know what I mean, this would be fantastic if I was actually a mouse, but I'm not a mouse, so it's completely I said, can't be cart before the horse makes no sense. Just do. Like I'm all for doing some research and some studies, but like you mentioned, a lot of stuff is literally out of date. We don't know enough.

Will:  

So let's let's take a different example. Let's say that this, that this research had been done on a peer reviewed group of human beings across different age range, ethnicity, cohorts, controlling for all the things that need to be controlled for. And it came out with a recommendation that for this type of person, this is the best time to achieve the biggest reduction of type two diabetes. And that gave you a time period that was let's say 3pm to 5pm. How useful would that be in practice? Do you think

Sam  

It's obviously a bit more credible for that person, but then why should a gym or any form of business then try and operate and there's no way of catering for every single person and every single benefit type of condition, so from that example, type two diabetes or, or someone who wants to improve their sleep or like you're not going to...this would be impossible for for...you know gym would have to run classes 24/7.

Will:  

You just have a hyper personalization that maybe we can do one day with technology and when we have, you know, blood glucose sensors that are actually attached to us at all times. But until then...

Sam  

God, it's just too much, like going back to what we said on previous podcasts. Just move. Move well. It seems so simple, but the most simple answers normally are the ones that but yeah, I just, I couldn't get over this one. I'm gonna, I'm gonna have a...Yeah.

Will:  

Yeah, this is where I have to, like, I have to take issue with publicizing something that just shouldn't be publicized. That's the problem. This headline should not exist in a fitness industry publication is my opinion.

Sam  

Definitely, definitely not. It's not it has no place whatsoever in there. And like I said, anybody who does read any of these, please please, please always take them with a pinch of salt until you've read the actual research and journal itself. 

Will:  

Fake News, fake news.

Sam  

Oh, everywhere. There's always fake news, unfortunately, this industry is full of it and lucky because it's an ever evolving there's more researchers more learning going into because it's, it's, it's catching up, it's catching up in the medical world itself is catching up and therefore the Sports Science World is is having to catch up. You know, if you go into a medical science degree,

Will:  

The, the conclusion that you come to will often be drawn by the conclusion that you are seeking to prove or disprove right? If you need for science, you know that you have a hypothesis and you have to disprove or prove the hypothesis. But if your hypothesis is the type of workout that I really want to sell you is good, then you can very much create a created scientific data driven study that will tell you that your workout is good, but you know, there might be another study whose hypothesis will find it bad.

Sam  

Exactly that's why going back to what we said when you do want to check any form of research check who's funding that research because they said if they want you to if they want that, that specific specific results is to better their business or product or education, whatever it may be. Anyone can argue any, any scientists and, you know, mind out there can can argue for it as long as it's benefiting them or the organization or business.

Will:  

So, somehow we've gone from talking about the best time of day to exercise to the problems of Big Pharma and data research. This is probably a good time to end it there. Thank you, Sam. So the answer to the best time of day to exercise is, well, you can probably guess it if you've listened to this podcast before, the time that you'll actually do it. Thanks, Sam. Thank you for listening. If you're enjoying the show, don't forget to subscribe for all the latest episodes wherever you get your podcasts. And while you're there, please drop us a review. You can also get in touch with me at will@sh1ftfitness.com. I'm Will Brereton and you've been listening to Group Fitness Real Talk.