Matt:

I think, for me, the big piece of advice is always around, teach with passion more than perfection. Love what you do, show it, make it fun, be a great motivator, be a great connector. Don't worry if you make mistakes or get your choreography wrong, it's passion, passion, passion will always beat perfection.

Will:  

Hey, I'm Will Brereton, founder of shift fitness. And this is group fitness real talk, a show about how to survive and even thrive in group fitness in 2021, and beyond. We have all heard a lot about China in the last 18 months. But what we haven't heard a lot about is what the fitness industry is doing there. Today on the show, I'm talking to Matt Thraxton. Many of you might know Matt. He's been at the top of the Les Mills world for a long time and in the view of many, is one of the best Body Pump presenters there is. He has spent time working in the USA, the UK, New Zealand, and Australia, and most recently, he's been training manager of Les Mills in China. So he has firsthand knowledge of how China has been, not only dealing with the pandemic, but also how fitness has continued to grow and thrive during that time. You're going to hear Matt talk about his experience being an expat in China and watching what happened to the fitness industry in his home nation of the UK and around the world,as opposed to what he himself experienced while he was in China. Spoiler: You're going to be a little bit gutted about how quickly they go back to teaching. You're also going to hear Matt talk about how his priorities, when it comes to fitness, have changed, how the role of a group fitness instructor has changed during that time, and what he now looks for when he's recruiting his exceptional talent in China. I really enjoyed this conversation with Matt. It's always great chatting to him and this would have been the perfect conversation over a pint at the pub. Unfortunately, we can't do that right now. But it was really great listening to him talk about how his experience of the fitness industry has changed. Matt and I are similar in that we both kind of got into teaching for the same reasons, but we've been through a similar journey and are now at the other end and feel that the contribution that we can make to fitness, other people within the industry, and our members is completely different to what we thought we were getting into. I hope you enjoy our conversation. So Matt Thraxton, welcome to the podcast. How are you? 

Matt  

Hello, Will, how you doing man? I'm very well, thank you. 

Will:  

And where I where am I speaking to you from, so tell the listeners where you are.

Matt:  

So I'm currently sat on my couch in my front room in Shanghai, China. And I just got back from teaching a class. So it's 9:30pm.

Will:  

And for those of you that are listening to this on a podcast, which most of you will be Matt has two very prominent Union Jack pillows. So keep it keeping it real.

Matt  

Deliberate product placement. 

Will:  

Okay, so currently based in Shanghai, China, but as I may have alluded to already, you're not actually from there. So why don't you give the listeners a little bit of background on you, where you're from, and how you ended up in Shanghai?

Matt  

Yeah, so originally from a little town in in in Devon called Honiton. So in England at the southwest of England, and I guess like a lot of like, sort of young boys and I was always into fitness and playing football and skateboarding and sports and always an active child's went to a college university did sports. And I kind of wasn't really sure what I wanted to do if I was into, you know, physiotherapy or sports management, or did I want to be a professional footballer, or rock and roll so

Will:  

That was one of the options were tossing up?

Matt  

So I got an opportunity to go to the states to do this summer soccer camps. So I went over to the States, and there was five or six weeks there were you the little summer soccer camp. So for Monday to Friday, you'll teach the kids football, and then on the weekend, you traveled to the next place so that we can't do it again. And then in the winter, when I came back, I went to the mountains, went to the Swiss Alps, and in the second year, the French Alps and did snowboarding. And so I sort of was, I guess in that place of you know, trying to find yourself what you wanted to do, but I was always into fitness, I always loved sport. And so I went through, you know, the usual sort of being a gym instructor and then trying to get into weights and doing bodybuilding and personal training and sort of tried several things in the industry. But it was when I was in the states I was I was training at Gold's Gym. And then I was coaching soccer at West Carter at high school because I was a high school soccer coach. And then the manager at Gold's Gym said, hey, do you want to teach body pump? And I was like, what is it? And she starts this group fitness workout. And I was like, no. I was a typical guy, you know, I lifted weights and played sports and so I was you know, I did football I was a typical manly man and I thoughr but for the bored middle aged housewives, you know, is a very, very stereotypical view. And she was like, hey, look, you know, we're bringing this new thing in and then the guys that invented the program told us that if we get some men teaching it, it'll be pretty cool. And she's looking at how husband's going to go on it. So it'll be great for you to to both go together. And she said, you know, I think you'd be pretty good at it. I was like, all right. So I took I took this VHS cassette home, you know, if any of you listeners have are a mature elk like me, you remember the video recorders. An anyway, it was bodypump 44. So I put this thing in the machine...

Will:  

44? I think I started at 44. That's that old man. That's not that old.

Matt  

But I sort of watched and thought, hang on, actually, this, this looks pretty cool. You know, it was it was good training. It was good music. It was a busy roomful of people. And as you know, that guy on stage McSweeny had this sort of charisma and this sort of bullish kind of charm, the thought is, you know, I could I could give this a go. And it was from that moment, so it was that tap on the shoulder from her, her name is Terry that sort of got me involved in as a group fitness. And I guess from there, I just sort of fell in love with group fitness, and got the opportunity to move overseas. So I ended up traveling a little bit, I went back to the UK, lived in New Zealand for four years, went to Australia for four and a half years, and then got the opportunity to come to I am now China. So essentially, it was through this body pump Les Mills thing that got me into group fitness. And then the opportunity for China was just, you know, it just came up. So it wasn't a plan that I wanted to end up here. I think it was just kind of, you know, good timing that I was able to move countries and I had the sort of experience and the skill set that they needed for the role. So I ended up being the training manager of the Les Mills team here in China.

Will:  

And so what does that entail exactly? When you say Training Manager for Les Mills in China, tell me a little about a little bit about your day to day and what you're responsible for...

Matt  

Which it has kind of changed a lot recently with the viruses. 

Will:  

Yeah, I bet.

Matt  

Which has been good, actually. But essentially, you know, as you know, group, fitness instructors, someone trains, the group fitness instructors to teach their programs, whatever that may be. So in the Les Mills world, we have these these trainers that are out on the road, teaching the programs and training instructors. And so my role is sort of the recruitment and the development of the training team. And that would be presenters and assesses the kind of their kind of quality control of the product, but they're also the ambassadors in the face of the product. So I still teach classes myself, because that's what I'm passionate about. And then I manage the team, the training coach and educate the instructors. And as with the virus situation, as we've kind of moved more into a bit of a digital space, there's a lot more online stuff. Now, there's a lot more to camera. And I've kind of become a part time director behind the scenes, which has been pretty cool. So the day to day, it really is varied every day, you know, so so it's technically an office based job where you're operating and running the team. But you know, this weekend, I went north to a place that's near Beijing called gnn, and just did a marketing event. You do group fitness management training, you know, you might do a seminar where you're talking to instructors on how to have longevity in the industry, you know how to stay current in the industry, you might do a promotional class to try and be selling your products to that gym. So the cool thing about it is it's very wide and varied now. And then with this sort of move into the digital space, I'm challenged. And I'm learning quite a lot there as well, which, you know, which is something I know you know, a lot about, because you you jumped on that years ago.

Will:  

I think I'm learning a lot about the digital space is probably something that most instructors would say is the biggest learning curve. Interestingly, you're doing it in, in a far off place, and at a different level to a lot of the instructors listening to this maybe. Okay, so let's jump into the fitness industry in China, because I'm really, really interested to hear about the industry because we hear a lot about China, in Western media, we definitely don't hear about a lot about the fitness industry. And we don't hear a lot about positive things going on in China most recently. So I am really interested to hear about you and your experiences on the ground. Before we jump into fitness. What was the experience of the pandemic, just the pandemic itself, like living in China?

Matt  

It was interesting. So so it came right over that Chinese new year period. So we've already started winding down for the festival, people have traveled back to their hometowns, and you know, people were starting to think about, you know, getting away for their holidays and seeing the family and so that stuff had actually started and then and then the virus hit and it was essentially okay, you know, just need to stay where you are for a couple of weeks, everything will be fine. So it's sort of the first few days was just there's this pandemic that's happened there's a few cases our advice is don't travel back to your big cities yet to stay with your family stay home. And you know, in a few days or a couple of weeks it'll be back to normal. So it was almost nothing much those first few days. And um, and for me personally, I was actually I left for the spring festival. I went to Bali to see some friends there. And then when I was ready to fly back I couldn't fly back, there was no flights. So obviously had gotten a lot more serious,

Will:  

Then you got stuck in Bali? What a shame. What a shame.

Matt  

I know it wasn't a humble brag. And um, and I was due to go to Taiwan for a fitness event. And I actually ended up traveling to Taiwan on Valentine's Day, I remember February 14, I stayed that 10 days, and then came back to China on the 24th. So actually just got back in before the very serious kind of lockdown. But, um, what actually happened, what that thing is in China is they, once they knew that something was pretty serious, they jumped like, straight away, so the gun straight away, locked the place down. And it was, you know, not able to travel it was, you know, in your, in your compound where you live, you know, people were locked down straight away, and, and they follow the rules here. So it's, you know, that there isn't rogue groups of people going and having parties. Everyone just did what they were told. And so it was pretty scary for me, because all I'm seeing on you know, I still follow a lot of the British news and overseas and so I'm getting, Matt, you got to get out of China. This is crazy. You know, that's the worst place, you know, we've got this virus and it was in Wu Han. And are you near Wu Han? What's going on? And you know, and so you had this Western idea of what was happening that was pushing it on me. And I was like, well, actually, we feel quite safe. Because we've got lots of security. I mean, there's people in hazmat suits everywhere, you've got to get your, you know, your temperature check. And then we've got QR codes on our WeChat. They monitor where you go, what you do. And so yeah, it is a bit a little bit like Big Brother watching you. And the funny thing is, had I only just moved to China, I would have felt quite scared about all that. Because I've been here a few years and I kind of know that you've, you know, there's a lot of security cameras, there's a lot of security with with WeChat and an apps that that monitor you. It's a real safe place. And you actually straightaway felt like the government had control of the situation.

Will:  

Ah interesting. So rather than feeling scared, you felt safe because of the level of oversight that the government has generally.

Matt  

Yeah, and it is. And I understand the Western philosophy, because obviously, I'm a Western person. So I get that whole, where they're looking at things...What do you mean, they locked you down straightaway and you couldn't leave your house and then they monitor where you move on your phone? 

Will:  

Well, the reality is that they ended up doing it to us, eventually, it just just kind of dribs and drabs over a longer period of time, right. 

Matt  

And the reality is, you know, in less than two months, we were out of it. And then and then gyms were opening up again, group fitness started again, you know, sporting events started again, music events. 

Will:  

Interesting. So actually, that brings me to my next question. How long was the fitness industry out of action in China?

Matt  

Yeah, so essentially, it was it was about two months, like, wow, like, I've done a few podcasts in and around the time that that we had the pandemic, so and it was it was all around this, you know, how did the club, how do they open? What happened? So essentially, what happened is we had that classic thing where clubs opened, but group fitness didn't open. 

Will:  

Exactly the situation that everyone's been finding themselves in this year.

Matt  

And it was restricting the amount of people that could go into the gym, when you got to the gym, you had to show your health code to show that you hadn't been to any dangerous areas and the your temperature check, you have to wear masks, the level of cleanliness in the club was double, triple, quadruple, you know, there's people walking around all the time wiping down machines cleaning, originally, you had, you know, an hour and a half slot that you could go and work out. And then for the next 30 minutes, the gym was shut down, and it was cleaned. And then the second slot opened up.

Will:  

Okay, crossover of cohorts.

Matt  

Yeah, yeah, you had to actually book your session. And they were limited to, they kind of limited it to 50% of normal occupancy. So some clubs would dive in and go per square inch, and they really worked it out somewhere a little bit more flexible. And then went once confidence was back with the members and started to grow, then it was personal training to come back on. And then group fitness, as you know about a 50% capacity and all those things.

Will:  

Are you still operating under restrictions? Or is group fitness back? 

Matt  

We haven't had restrictions for a long time. That's the thing. And I did a couple of posts. And you know, some some people were that were inspired that there was light at the end of the tunnel. And they felt great. They could see getting back to normality. And obviously some people were like, ah, I feel jealous, because I can see your back teaching. But the reality of it is, you know, every country is different. Every politician was dealing with a different, society dealt with a different you know, what I'm seeing what's happening in Australia and the UK. And it's just different here. You know, the government came down really hard. It was effective quickly, people follow the rules. And we got back to normal quite fast. And so, for me, it has been 100% positive. You know, it was scary at the start, like I said, but it's you know, when you see what happened in the UK, where people were still going out and gathering and drinking and people in Ozzy still going to the beach, and then there was a bit of lockdown and not locked down in different levels of lockdown. And it was just a mess. And it's just a shame because in my mind, it felt like it could have been dealt with a lot a lot, you know, maybe not harsh as the word, but actually a lot stricter and a lot more regimented? Because it clearly works that way. And so I do feel very lucky to be living in Shanghai, very lucky that I was in China at the time.

Will:  

Well, unless you're in Australia, and you've got strict and long, the worst of all those.

Matt  

The States are different and people are, you know. I mean, it is a horrible thing. And it's, and it's, you know, something that the whole globe is going for at the same time. But interestingly enough, those first sort of five or six, seven weeks, when nobody else in the globe was having it, just China. Nobody cared about us in China. Like, it was a virus that started in China, it was your guy's fault. And then when people started to see China was coming out of lockdown, it was okay, how did you do it? What did you do? Give us some help. So it's quite an interesting, dynamic being here? I can see both sides. Yeah. But the funny thing is, it's like business is booming, you know. So what we had was people that were doing online workouts, group fitness, that weren't doing business in the gym normally, yeah, once you open, they started getting back in the gym and doing group classes. So we saw a heavier volume of traffic of people wanting to do group fitness classes.

Will:  

Interesting. Okay, cool. So that brings us on to a really good thing to talk about is that you are back teaching classes, no capacity restraints. I want to hear a little bit about what people did in that interim sounds like what they went to digital, but as your experience that the larger reach of digital has brought more people into the real life experience. 

Matt  

100% 

Will:  

I mean, that's positive for everybody listening. Everyone's going, ah, I've still got capacity restrictions, but they're hearing some some positive views here.

Matt  

I've actually been teaching since since April, I think it was, it was actually 60 days exactly my last class to my first class during the pandemic, actually 60 days because I remember cuz I wrote an article about it, about it. And it was a cycle class, it was rpm. And I remember that I was heartbroken. I pulled on my lycra shorts. And they were baggy, because my legs got small. But exactly that and it was interesting, because...

Will:  

Sidebar, you still wear lycra to teach cycle. Is that still a thing? 

Will:  

Yeah. But uh, but I wear baggy top, I don't like with jerseys anymore. Yeah, I don't wanna be a middle aged man in lycra. Yes. So initially, what you found was there was a little bit of lack of confidence from certain areas of the public that didn't want to get back gym, understandable, then you had the raving fans that just couldn't wait to get back in and smash it. And they were doing a couple classes every day, and you know. And within sort of 2,3,4 weeks as as capacity sort of grew in terms of class occupancy, of what you're allowed, it was literally every couple of weeks, we could grow a little more, you know, full occupancy was back within a month or so from now, counting down, it was very, it was very fast. But it was every club is different. So some clubs would still keep a capacity for a while. But it be exactly that what happened was, you had this initial drive back and maybe 60, 70% of members that grew to 80 to 90. And then obviously, there are there are some members that have dropped off and they've stayed doing at home workouts, because what they found was, it was just more convenient. You know, if you're a man, we've got a couple of kids and one of the kids is sick, you know, you can just do your workout on your TV. That's great.

Will:  

I think that's the, the long term effect of the pandemic right will be that people have experienced digital, therefore, when it works for them, they're going to do it. But I don't think there's any question about whether digital doesn't replace in person and it just gives the consumer another option to make it fit with whatever they need to do in their day.

Matt  

100% and even with me, you know, I'll travel you know, I travel a lot with my job. So I'm in hotels, and I just get my own and work on a workout. And I'm doing different workouts I wouldn't normally do you know, so I'm doing a lot more yoga bass stuff, a lot more mindful stuff and mobility, flexibility stuff that I wish I'd done 20 years ago. It's 10 o'clock at night, I've finished a big day of work. I'm at a hotel, boom, put my phone on, do 20 minutes. And so yeah, absolutely. The whole, you know, traveling 20 minutes to a gym, you know, yeah, getting dressed in change, room changing having to wait for equipment, some, you know, big dude with muscles, you know, staring in the mirror annoying you know, skimpy bras on and little knickers and all those stereotypes about the industry that are barriers to people working out? Yep, they're gone because you just work out at home. And that convenience, you know, and it's and it really has changed the way that a lot of people work out. And even through the Facebook groups and things I see tons of people have just gone. I don't need the gym anymore. Yeah, that that square box where there's equipment inside. Yes, it's become very redundant.

Will:  

It's not that it's not the same because you and I both obviously grew up in the gym industry and work the same day actually the first gym that I ever worked out in the UK, you were the fitness manager for a hot minute, before you left. But I we grew up in the gym space. And I think people are realizing now that the gym is no longer the center of people's fitness and wellness life, it's a place that they go to experience that but if anything the center of their fitness life is the phone, right? Because that's where they booked to go to the gym if there's limited slots, and that's where they can take a class track their, you know, track their heart rate, track their sleep track their steps.

Matt  

Yeah, and especially here in China, they're so tech savvy, I mean, the apps that we've got on our phones, and you know, I'm glued to my phone all the time, but it's it's not texting your friends. Social media is actually doing useful stuff, because everything's in the palm of your hand. But going back to the start of the original question, so you do have that drop off of people that have realized traveling to the gym is just not necessary, I don't need. But what's also happened is that the people that are getting, you know, assisted exercise, so personal training, small group training, group fitness, that community people, they're hungry for community, they love that. So yes, you can get that through the screen to a certain degree. But like you said earlier, you can't replace that, that live experience. And if you have got a good facility with good programming, and a good instructor, people still crave that. So we've seen an increase in people coming back to group fitness, people doing different group fitness programs that they wouldn't normally have tried. Because they've tried it a few times in the privacy of their own home.

Will:  

Yeah, where they where they couldn't get embarrassed about their lack of ability. 

Matt  

But also people that were in personal training. So I know some guys you know that the typical personal training clients, but they weren't getting looked after by their pts when the pandemic hit that they just got left alone. And it was. So they start picking up some group classes through through the TV screen. And they go question I quite like this class, you know, and the when the gyms open, they want to go back to group fitness, and they've enjoyed that community feel that energy, you get a group fitness. So we've seen a bunch of new traffic come in that would never have tried group fitness classes in the first place. Yeah, so it's absolutely been a win win.

Will:  

So tell me a little bit about like, I'm really curious about what is the group fitness experience in China. So you're from the UK, you've lived in New Zealand, you've lived in Australia, you spent a bit of time in the US. So you're pretty aware of what group fitness isn't all of those locations. And that kind of knocks off majority of the listeners to this podcast. So knowing what you know about like, what a class is, like in the States or in the UK or in Australia? What is the average class like in China? What are the similarities? What are the differences?

Matt  

So what's really huge here is, is boutique thing. So that's really taken off. And we can talk a bit more about the business of that later if you like. But um, essentially that sort of, you know, it might be 100 to 200 square metre plate, you know, it's 30 person studio, for example. And there's companies like supermonkey that they're kind of, well, they don't say they are but in my way of interpreting it, they're the Starbucks of fitness. There's one on every corner, there's one in every mall, very personal studio, there's no front desk, there's no sales, there's no showers, 

Will:  

We'll stick to SuperMonkey in the show notes to this because if you don't know, you don't know by name, it's worth having a look at, it's very interesting business. 

Matt  

Yeah. And that, you know, they're, they're, they're smart of what they're doing. But anyway, what they've got is, you know, these these studios that there's easy to access, they've got good group fitness programming, good group, fitness instructors, and there's been a real boom there. So, but what you've got is it's very fashionable, it's young, it's fashionable, it's cool. So you've got to take a selfie, you've got to check in, you've got to put it on social media, you're there with your friends, you follow the call instructor that's famous, and they build that profile. So the one thing I've noticed here is it's it's not so much about, you know, the physical training. So like you and I are from that same sort of background back in sort of New Zealand kind of days, it was no body attack, you get fitter, faster, harder, jump, stronger, you know, and it was

Will:  

If you're not if you're not lifting, lifting, 20 kgs each time on the squat rack then why are you even on stage. 

Matt  

Yeah. Was that very old school mentality, which was great at the time, it got us where we needed to be in you know, it drove people to get healthier and fitter. But times are different now. And I think one of the things I adapted to when I got here is I was still teaching with quite a high intensity and still kind of training-focused. But the two things, the two big things were one, it's fun and motivation for the average person that, they're not training for the Olympics. So yeah, it was nice to be a cool experience for 30 minutes, 45 minutes, you know, be a cool guy to be around for that time, and guide them through a fun workout. The results are there, they'll get them, don't worry, too. So I've really changed that angle. It's not so much the intensity focus now, it's more of a success focus to find enjoyment. Yeah. And I used to hate people training in the gym taking selfies, and I used to hate people in the mirror. But now I'm going so what man if that's what you want to do, that's totally cool. At least you're in there doing something. Yeah. And you're posting on social media. So tons of other people are now also going to come in, and they're involved in health and fitness. You know, who am I to say you have to be at a certain fitness level to enjoy the products? Of course not.

Will:  

It's interesting how your perspective changes, right? Because I have to say that like I've being of the same generation as you I, my approach to people coming into the gym has changed a lot like there, there was a time and it's not a time of particularly proud of, but I'll admit to it, where I'd see someone in the gym and they weren't in very good shape. And they'd be using a machine that I wanted and I'm like, why are you even in here, I want to use that thing. And now it's I realized, wow, like, that's the kind of person that is exactly the type of person that we should be encouraging into the gym, and that the gym is for. And that group fitness is a really great solution for because potentially, it can be less intimidating if they can bring friends along if they can try it at home first.

Matt  

I mean, it's experience a majority, right? You know, and I was the same as you and I see people the same way now. And I think the value is I can actually help coach and educate those people, while they're still young. And they don't go down that route of you know, it's all about how they look, or it's all about them, you know, being great at using the equipment and understanding it and look down on the people that are doing it wrong. It's Yeah, the same as you I've really changed. And so you've got that community thing. You've got the social thing, which those two things are huge for me now. But also, it's it's beginners, man, I mean, for years. When I look back at it, and I'm ashamed to say all I've really done is get fit people a little bit fitter. Yeah. 20 years. Yeah. And I don't know where it was along the journey. There's a few sort of key landmarks that we that we could talk about, but essentially, my big learning that I could share is that in the fitness industry, we are not doing a good job of getting beginners into fitness. All you need to do is just look at the stats that you know, yeah, it hundreds of gyms are opening up all over the world all the time. Lots of new group fitness instructors, lots of new personal trainers, lots of new education. We're not penetrating the general population anymore. It's we're not getting more people from zero to three or four. You know, we're we're just getting people that are sevens and eights in terms of fitness.

Will:  

yeah, I get it. So the industry, how old is the industry in China? Like if you compete, you think that gyms have been around since, let's say the 80s in the 80s in sort of USA and UK and kind of when the gym culture kind of grew up and the robot started jazzercise, all that sort of stuff. How long is the group fitness industry existed in China in terms of how long have people been going to classes? Have they been going all the time or a gyms are relatively more recent content?

Matt  

It is still new. And I still think we're quite a few years behind maybe you know, the Western world in terms of exercise, maturity and education. And it's but it's growing fast. So we sort of had a key pivotal moment it was it was when we had the successful bid for the Beijing Olympics. So that one, so around sort of the late 90s and 99, there was there was a club called hoser. And hoser was like one of the first big box gyms, standard operators. And what was the numbers they sort of grew from from 99 to 2009, they got up to about 90 clubs. And so that was your first sort of surge and what what happened in within that time was the and if you remember the SARS epidemics, that first pandemic. So that kind of raised so those two things the Beijing Olympics bid and then the SARS was two things that kind of raise the awareness of health and fitness in China. So how can fitness and sport through the Beijing and then health through well being and being healthy human and not catching a disease through the size and and that was where the boom sort of started staying,

Will:  

Which is kind of a like a something that is drawing people in to exercise in the UK in the US now is the resilience against future pandemic aspect. 

Matt  

You just couldn't have predicted that. Could we do? Yeah. 

Will:  

Yeah, who could have thought that that would ever happen?

Matt  

But strange enough, so when I said in 2009, this these guys hoser had 89-90 clubs. But in 2019, they actually shut down. So that was a big change in the industry, whether the big box gym had just become sort of a little bit dinosaur. So this this whole more flexible, more nimble thing of people not wanting to be locked into a contract. Yeah, not locked into one single venue, not wanting to travel 30 minutes to a club, not wanting to be restricted with the service offerings of one facility. The thing here in China is things move quick, and they're very agile. And there is money. So there's investors pumping money into SuperMonkey, there's investors in Lafitte you've got Alibaba that are throwing money into health and fitness. 

Will:  

I have to say, I don't know why. But I had this preconception because, like, I look at China, and the scale of the cities is so big and the buildings are so big, and there's so many people, I kind of had this view of gym classes being big, you know, like the classic Australian or New Zealand kind of 200 people in a studio that that was what I had in my head. But it sounds like you're what you're saying is that those cities with you know, 12 million people just have 1000s and 1000s of small, local...

Matt  

Pretty much, yes. So you still got some successful big box gyms so so Tara Wetness is one, and if you have few of us at Les Mills was team teach at those clubs, so I stayed quite involved with what they're doing and you've got your kind of studio that might be 80, 90 people and they've got you know, some some freestyle classes that rock there are some Les Mills classes that rock. The dance programs are great here. So Zumba, freestyle dance, body jam, anything martial arts goes really well here and anything. Yoga goes well, so those three things are big hitters. But But you're right, the boutiques are really where it's at. And it's that young fashion, fresh, nimble, agile, it's sexy, it's cool. It's your app on your phone. You know, once you've done 50 classes, you get a big thing on your phone that bright lights up and shows everyone you know that they're great with marketing. So you get the stickers, the badges, you get the T shirts, that baseball caps. I mean, they it's, it's it's real social, it's real community, it's fast, it's young. So those the big box gyms have caught on to that. So they're starting to do this sort of club within a club kind of thing, or have a boutique feeling as studios, because they've realized, you know, that that's what's attracting people. But I think the, the key thing is around you know, if I want to do you know, a Zumba class somewhere, I know where the calls are instructor is, but then if I want to do a yoga class, that's somewhere else to call yoga instructors somewhere else, then if my friends are going to go and do body pop down the road, I want to do their pump. So I don't wanna be locked into any of those gyms, I just want to do what I want when I want. So that's where the flexibilities come in. So yeah, the image of those sort of those old days like the Aussies. And even in the UK, you know, even that cannons, it was quite a big studio... that yeah, that isn't going here. But when we have an event, we do get that. So Lafitte is a club that just recently had an event and they're getting, you know, 600-700 people in it in a body combat class. 

Will:  

Okay. But it's more about like, it's a destination event or a weekend thing, or a lot of people come to rather than a regular, large class?

Matt  

Yeah, so right, the regular classes are definitely that boutique feel. But what's happening is, the successful clubs are really leveraging that, that group fitness, and getting people into personal training. So their understanding, group fitness is a you know, it's kind of a limited income source, right?

Will:  

Yeah, so they're getting the low cost per head, the low cost per head thing into the more expensive thing.

Matt  

Okay, by the way, let's get you on a six week plan, or let's get you a nutritionist. And they've been smart about it. So the successful coaches, you know, they're understanding that and made since the pandemic, if you were a little bit smart, and you got online quick, and you stay connected with your community straightaway and your fitness and stuff. You know, it didn't have to be bright lights, big city, it could just be quick and easy and dirty off your phone off your Mac. Yeah. If you got in there quick and you kept that community going, you know, you're paying that it's paying dividends now because you're able to leverage that. And you're back teaching your classes in front of people, you've got online programs and this repertoire of people when these on demand workouts. And that's where that's where people have been successful. And that's where group fitness is going. Which is great. Because it's you know, it's just getting more people to do the stuff that you and I love. And that's what we're in, you know, and so accessible, really easy to do to beginners.

Will:  

The average, the average instructor in China that tell me a little about them, are they an instructor? It is who is also a PT, are they a hobbyist? How do they differ or bear similarities to what you would see elsewhere?

Matt  

So what I see here is there's a larger percentage of full time instructors. When I think back to all the countries I've been and well being, you know, Les Mills New Zealand, for example, quite a lot of instructors are personal trainers, they supplement with those two roles. For example, here, if you're at pure fitness, they're they're two separate jobs. So you're a full time instructor, or you're a full time PT.

Will:  

and you're employed rather than self employed?

Matt  

Yeah, so they've got the employment model. So they're doing 16 classes a week, for example, when you're employed, you've got a team meetings, you do class covers, you'll be part of the launches. And, and you know, in their model, we're fully invested in the company, you're part of the staff, and you get that engagement. Yeah. You're not able to teach anywhere. So you're restricted to that one club, but that's your club that you're affiliated to. Yep. And you get a lot of SuperMonkey instructors, you know, full time, fitness instructors full time. I'm at a little boutique studio called ZMB. And they've got a bit of a blend. So they have a group of full time instructors. Yeah. They also have the come and go people like me, so I just teach four classes there. And if I want to teach at another club, I can. I just don't because my schedule is pretty busy. Yeah, but I've got flexibility if I want so...

Will:  

Interesting. Okay, so it's more of an employed model than a because I think of group fitness instructing as kind of the classic  freelance job, right. Like, it's all fine and good to, to get all your classes from one gym, but at the same time, didn't have them very often. So you kind of had to go around to other's 

Matt  

100% yeah, it was, you know, and I think back to my time in Ozzy, you know, I was always teaching three or four different clubs, you know, so there was a fitness versus virgin active, g sack and then yeah... 

Will:  

Is that just down to differences in the way they look at employment models? Or is it that because these brands have caught on to the fact that the instructors the drawcard and therefore they want them to be a staff member rather than a contractor who could disappear and take the people with them?

Matt  

I mean, it's it's a real big drive towards the coach being the pivotal role within the club. They're seeing big value in you know that they're still in that place where they want to create rockstars. So the whole thing is around creating a rockstar, leveraging that rock star, you know, how can how can you have 3,4,5,10 rockstars? You know, can we have a rockstar that teaches at five or six of our venues so they can reach memberships in? Yeah, so I have in each of those, so it is around that, but also, it's the mindset. So it is very much a career mindset here. So when I'm when I do seminars for instructors, it's always around how do I push my career forward? How can I make more money? How can I be more relevant, more current? How can I have longevity? You know, where's the career path? What if I want to be a GFNN? You know, what if I want to be a presenter? What if I want to create my own programs? So it's just it's just not seen as a casual gig as much as it is maybe in other countries. It's, it's a serious, full time profession that people have invested their time and energy into. And, you know, part of my role is making sure that people understand how to take care of themselves physically and mentally. So they can have a long career that's full time. And then this is where some of the small team training and the personal training and coaching is involved, because as you know, we can't jump around on stage like we're 20.

Will:  

No, we can't. We can try and fail. Okay, cool. So, industry in China, it actually sounds like it's not that different to what we're seeing a lot of other countries, and it's becoming a lot more about the boutique, a lot more about community, there's in person classes are really fostering connection between the instructor and the and the participant. What do you think that is big and coming down the road in China or in Asia, like in the industry, where you are, that potentially we could learn from in Europe and the USA and elsewhere? Is there anything that that you think is potentially lacking where you've been that they really are doing well?

Matt  

Yeah, that's a good question. Because I think, obviously, there's cultural differences. And there's employment cost differences. So, you know, luckily, in China, were able to have, for example, cleaners in the club at a relatively low cost. So especially coming off the back of the pandemic operators that opened up again, that was shown to have really increased their level of hygiene in the club, their level of cleanliness, visibility, you know, perception is reality, right? So when you see, when you jump off a treadmill, and you see someone go over and clean it, you're like, well, this place is so so that's a hard thing in some markets to actually reproduce. And I get that. But I think that's a key learning that perception is reality. So when, when members do see that the equipment's getting looked after, there's a lot of cleanliness, there's a lot of great service, you know, that really breeds confidence in people in that facility. So that's, that's one thing that I do see here, and I saw it in Brazil as well. I think Brazil is just another country where labor costs are low. So yeah, that was where I first noticed it. And I was like, wow, this is awesome. Because we never had this in the UK. Yeah, coming off the back of the COVID stuff that that was really, really important. And I think the flexibility the way that businesses move, so agile, and they make business decisions very quickly and change things and admit if something's not working, and then try new things. And I feel that happens a lot here, that people have been creative, they're trying new things, it's, it's, there's never a resting on your laurels of trying to sort of exploit what we've what we've always done, or just continue doing what we've always done. That's been successful, it's let's explore new ways. So it was always quite frightening for me, because having years in the fitness industry, you get a little bit stuck in your ways, and you do get a little of resistance to change. And you think, oh no, this might not be right. And I've learned to really change my way of thinking and be a lot more open. And I think the successful coaches, the successful club operators, they've, they've just broken the mold and just completely new things. And, and obviously, the one main thing, obviously, that the rest of the world also jumping on now is this digital space, this online space. And I was holding on to that because I was your typical, you know, for years, I was a Les Mills trainer. So I had the whole I have to physically be in a room with 20 people to be able to train and educate them, you know, face to face, you know, but it's like no, you don't you absolutely don't and actually, you know, we can have a greater level of connection through a screen we can reach more people, we can be quicker, flexible, more nimble, I can do it more often I can change my content straight away. So we're seeing that and, and I think that the social thing is big. So I know you touched on it just now with community building. And one thing I think that's, that's here is, is the social aspect. You know, we have these key opinion leaders, KOLs you know, and it's like your Instagram supermodels that they'll come into the gym and if they do a workout or they do your launch class,

Will:  

Yeah, can't stand them, but can't live without them.

Matt  

How they get that job, I don't know but it is where fitness is. fitness it is it is, like I said young, sexy, cool, it's fashion. It's fast here. But things change really quick.

Will:  

It's funny isn't because it's not just about turning out and teaching a good class anymore, right? Like you and I achieved success at Les Mills sort of around the same time, we're on the DVDs, now videos and last class presentations, then we did our first one the same time, actually. And that was too long ago now what fifth, sixth, seventeen years ago. But it was it was kind of it was at a point where social media didn't really exist. And so you had a profile, but you were, I think you mentioned it, right? It's that you're tapped on the shoulder by someone that knew what they were doing or, or had had power to that right. And then you kind of got mentored and got put into this great arena where you got to lose all these amazing things. were being a really, really good instructor was the most important thing and being able to sit in the essence of the program and deliver really well now you cartography. And I feel like being a top fitness instructor. Now, the actual delivering of a class really well is maybe 30, tops 50% of your role. And the rest of your role is creating community actually interacting with your members being present on social media, putting out content, all this sort of stuff that I actually find really hard. Like, I know that I have a brand that creates content, but even then, it's slightly different to creating content from my own Instagram, which I hate doing. But if you're going to be an instructor that has success, now, you've just got to accept that that's part of the role, right? You can't just you can't just turn up at five to six teach a great 6pm class and leave and think you're going to be successful. 

Matt  

Yeah, 100% isn't it?

Matt  

It's interesting cuz you because you're right. And it was, I guess it was that era of, you're totally obsessed about your craft, right? So you want to hone your skills you you get your learning from wherever you can, you know, you're in the gym training to get fit, you're in front of America, your technique, your scripting your class, you're really knowing your music, you're watching other instructors that are great, you know, you're learning from musicians and actors, and yeah, you're doing all these things. And it was just get the skills down. And it was an I was totally obsessed from the beginning, you know, for many, many years. And I think you have to be right if you want to carve out a career. But it is, you know, the industry moves quick and things do evolve, and even moving to different countries was something that changed my way of teaching. And somewhere along the line, I did realize that it was that it was more about community and it was more, it was a motivation...

Will:  

As much as I want to.

Will:  

How did your teaching change? I want to hold on there for a second. So you said that you're teaching changed when you move from country to country? What What about it changed?

Matt  

Oh, when I look back to how I taught in the States, I was just a cheerleader the whole time.

Will:  

I mean, you were in the States so let's...

Matt  

Some of the stuff I used to wear. But um yeah, you know, I had no intelligent coaching. It wasn't around, you know, the training and fitness. It was just all around the ra-ra and the hype and it was fun. And yeah, cheesy one-liners and jokes. And you know, and it was cool, cuz I just loved being on stage. I loved having a room full of people and being the go to guy for the fun for fitness. And so that was kind of the start of my journey. And so it was around you know, saying creative things fun things being a cheerleader, motivational stuff. And then I was back in the UK and in in UK,

Will:  

Being first person to drop the bar and a body pump masterclass presentation onto a foot.

Matt  

A bit of showmanship. And the funny thing is, it is you know, it's it's all around sort of that, that creating something in class that made it made it memorable, you wanted people to enjoy it, you know, yeah. Not necessarily train hard at that time or work hard, but you know, the wow factor you're trying to find? And then I guess back in the UK, you know, you walk up on stage and teach like that, people think you're an idiot, especially if you're English.

Will:  

Why is this person shouting at me?

Matt  

And this was you know, this was 20 years ago, this was 2002 but then it became a bit more about the education side. So I still wanted to keep the sort of the fun element and the unique personality side of it. We're trying to actually have some intelligent coaching around training and fitness and and I was on a bit of a one man mission so it's a body pump was my main program and I always fought against people that were like personal trainers or weight lifters or bodybuilders that thought body pump was just useless. So I was always around trying to break that barrier of people thinking bodypart wasn't good training because it wasn't you know, four sets of 10 in the gym doing a proper benchpress. So I wanted to bring in some intelligent coaching some authentic weight training language, I wanted to make sure I was lifting good weights and strong in shape. So if someone that was a you know, a bodybuilder for example, walk past...

Will:  

You wanted to you wanted to prove that the workout that you were doing was a proper workout and not prove them wrong, essentially, anyone that had doubts about it...

Matt  

I was I was probably a little bit a little bit darker and how I taught I probably saw it was a little bit that Mike McSweeny style of bullying like yeah, put some weight on your bar it's a proper workout. You got to squat deeper. It was around getting some some integrity in the program is around it being accepted in the fitness industry is a real workout. Um, I think when I got to New Zealand it was you know that was kind of heaven for me because all the people I looked up to and idolize that were fitness instructors were were athletes. You know you had Steven Ardor, Mike McSweeney, Emma Berry, Susan, you know these Susan Renata at the time, you know, then you have Bevan James Eyles, Ironman triathlete, you know when you're looking at as people are just proper professional fitness people teaching group fitness, and you're like, wow, this is awesome. You know, they bring in, you know, a rugby background, they bring in a rowing background and Ironman background, and then all of a sudden, it was well, actually, I'm at the bottom of the ladder again. So in terms of being fitter, and more athletic and representing the brand. So were you in a place where it's you know, started 20,30 years ago, you've got to be at such a high level. So that was where I really started to dial in some more skills around, you know, teaching a credible class, like you said, it's around making sure your choreography is great, you know, you understand your music, you're coaching intelligently, you've got good connection, and you've got some performance in there. So you're at the home of Les Mills so you're teaching very in a Les Mills way, but you're getting a great grounding in the skills to teach a good class. I wasn't doing much in and around before and after the class.

Will:  

You should get away with it. Right? Because what people expected was an excellent class. They weren't expecting all that other stuff.

Matt  

Yeah, yeah, and you might do something like, you know, bring in some chocolate and hand out some chocolate at the end of class might see a good good you know, recipe for fat free muffins in a magazine, rip it out, photocopy it and hand it out, you do a bit of community building like that. Yeah. And then I guess when then when I got to Ozzy, I just started getting more into the business, I guess a fitness I started, I was still teaching classes. But I was getting more around, you know, sales and marketing and the business of group fitness and management. So I started to lean more towards being a brand ambassador for a program and a product. You know, so I was probably a little bit more professional, a little bit more responsible, still wanting to keep you know, the math tracks and quirkiness or the I never wanted anyone to talk to me after class and think I was a different person than I was on stage. Yeah, I mean, authentic you so the authentic me, you know, is always learning and growing and finding new ways and developing and upskilling. So yeah, my style changes through those. But you know, when you see me on stage, and then you see me offstage, I'm the same person. You know, I always wanted to be just a real person authentic. I might say something stupid, I might do something wrong, but it's all from a good place. So I think it was the community building was was just around being, you know, a good person and loving people. Yeah. So I didn't necessarily practice any skills or trying to, I just love talking to people. You get invited to a barbecue. You know, I taught when I was in New Zealand it was it was it was new Lynn West Auckland, and you know, West Orange. Jackie Griffin's done. The manager. There's a great Yeah, and it's an island cultures and it's all the Fijians, the Tongans, the Samoans and they love family. So I was the surrogate, you know, white boy grants, as you know, and and I think that was one of the big touching points in my change was, though there was a guy there, you might have known the story about about Ani, who's who's a member there that there was a very overweight member. And he came to my class and are having a good experience and came back and sort of To cut a long story short, after about a year, he gave me a card with a letter in it that just said, Hey, man, thanks for your class, you know, you want to know this. But a year ago, I was going through some not good times, I was heavy, overweight, some health issues, and he had actually lost almost 50 kilos in that year. Well, and that was kind of what I realized that, hey, this isn't about me. Yeah. Be. It isn't just a class to someone else. It isn't just another group fitness class. You know, and just think if I hadn't rocked up to that class that day, and I didn't do anything special, I just said Hello. Yes, all they knew. So I did the same thing that anybody listening would do. But it was a big deal to him that day, it was really important. So if I wasn't there, and that never happened, who knows what that journey might have been. So that was kind of pivotal moment when I realized that you've got to honor the people that are in the room, they're all there for a different reason. Everyone's got a story. This is a big deal to some people, they've really made an effort to come today. You know, and who are you to deny them? That great experience, you know, by being an idiot or questioning how much weight they've got on the bar or so that was a real humbling moment for me and it was it was it was quite emotional because when I look back over my career there's there's been highlights like you say the DVDs traveling the world and all that stuff. But absolutely this this whole journey of destinations that I've had doesn't mean anything that the times like that is when I've really gone, whoa, this is what we do. And that's the thing I guess is kept me having some longevity in industry and made my teaching all about the people in front of me. Yeah, so I'm there before class and it's nothing to do a group fitness. I'm just chatting. You know, how you doing, I know about people's kids, I know about their dogs, and I know if they've gone on holiday. I just treat it class like, it's people cominng to my front room for a party, you know, I invite you to my house, is the music okay? Do you have a drink? And oddly enough, like you say the skill of actually teaching might only be 30% of what I do. It's so much more around community building, looking after people helping new people understanding that this is a huge deal for someone else. It's not just a workout, it's not just a group class. And like, you touched on this, the social media thing, which I'm not very good at, either...

Will:  

We're too old, mate.

Matt  

I'm coaching other people to do and helping them understand. You know, we need to keep these people connected when they're not inside the four walls of our club. And we have to reach out, engage them in the hours and hours and hours and hours that they're not inside your group fitness room. Yeah, they're only in your room a couple of three hours a week. So that is where the intelligent people have really built, you know, it's built a business, but it's a business based on people. And I try to, you know, I'm still lucky I train a lot of instructors. And that's something I talk about, you know, we are in a people industry, we just happened to teach group fitness all day. So once you can understand people's behavior, and your you really honor that you're doing it for the right reasons you will be successful, because you will find a way, you will find a way to create a program to get online to do a workout. You know, and so that's the probably the biggest changes.

Will:  

Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it, I have had a bit of a realization, it's been a long realization over the over the course of a number of years where I became older and less capable of giving as much as I might have used to have given in terms of jumping high or topping is that but at the same time became more aware of the stuff you're talking about the fact that you can positively impact someone's life. And the more mature you get, and when you get past your 20s, it's less about you and more about kind of the impact that you're having. I have to admit that I haven't been at the like top end of the industry where I was, like you said, so focused on craft that I was so focused on delivering a really great workout that I would see people who were having success and being kind of social media stars, and I didn't I'd watch the next day deliver a class. And I'd be like, wow, that's so bad. And it's really bad that they are so famous because they're pretty shit. And then and over the course of the years, I've kind of come around and realize that you but they're getting 1000s of people into fitness. And now that I've kind of got to that end point myself, which is what is my purpose of being in the fitness industry, it's to help instructors help other people. And the end goal is just bringing more people in. And the pandemic was really interesting watching how fitness instructors became the center of like, so many people's communities, they were shut down, they couldn't go out, the only people they had providing them with anything in terms of social interaction was their live stream class that they were doing. And I think all instructors have a renewed realization of the positive impact that they can have that has not really a lot to do with whether or not they teach the squat rack really well and much more to do with bringing people into the tent.

Matt  

It's been really cool, because I've, you know, I've experienced that same kind of involvement as you and I think, um, you know, even that sort of personal training space, and for me, it was it was, you know, that bodybuilding style of training for a long time, and then it was sort of CrossFit Olympic weightlifting and, and I do TRX and kettlebells, and that stuff, and then you opening up Instagram, and you're just seeing some beautiful young girl selling a PDF program.That used to crush me, because I'm like, the information is not correct. It's not a good training program.

Will:  

Yeah, me too. And it bothered me. And then I think it still crashes a lot of instructors like and I'm beginning to be become that person that's like, don't be bitter about what they're doing.

Matt  

It completely shifted because I used to be that, you know, it, it wasn't arrogance, it was around, you know, proper training has to be properly trained. And like, no it doesn't because we're not training athletes. It's not the Olympics, you know, and people are going to be moving...oh, but it's not safe. Well, you can just walk on a treadmill and hurt yourself. You can you can walk down the stairs and hurt yourself. So this, this safety thing is just nonsense to me because the human body moves how the human body moves. So exactly what you said, who are we to say if if there's young pretty girl that's got 10 million followers and she's getting 6 million people moving? Hat's off to you, fair play, well done, you've got a great business and you're making money and you're getting people exercising, you know, so what if strength and conditioning coach thinks your squat's not good? It doesn't matter. Because you're getting people moving. Yeah, graduate and get a personal trainer that's got a bit more credibility in terms of they've got a you know, a weight lifting course. Or they're, you know, they're a strength and conditioning specialist or a mobility specialist. People might move into that space, if that's what they want. But that's that's where this realization and it was, there was a talk that Bevan James Eyeles had actually quite a long time ago, I think he was talking to a woman called Mit Thomas, who's sort of a bit of a legend in the industry, as well as some of your listeners might know. But they were talking about exactly this about if our role is actually to get more people into exercise that we are failing. We're not doing that. But these fitness models, they are getting more people into exercise. So we can learn from that. And we can just soften off a little bit and go, you know, we need to be easy entry. We need to be quick, cheap, this, we need to be able to get people moving. It's about success. It's about communities, feeling good. It doesn't have to be a perfect squat. It doesn't have to be correct Olympic weight lifting. 

Will:  

It's so true, right? I've spent I've spent hundreds of hours thinking about how to coach a high knee run through body attack and all these things. And so sometimes when I watch Joe wicks, do a high knee run with Joe, I'm like, are you just saying "run high knees, run high knees" 120 times, I would have 20 different cues, all of them. And I used to get so mad, but now I'm look he's got so many people watching and doing a high knee run, good for him. But it was a mind shift, a mindset shift that I had to consciously do that. I think a lot of instructors that have been in the industry for a long time struggle with but I think that the ones that have realized how that role is changing are the ones that are managing to kind of find a new niche within the industry and get fulfillment ultimately, which is the most important thing.

Matt  

And it loops back to that original question you had where you asked about you know where I see the future of fitness, I absolutely see businesses making a 100% direct you know run towards, we want to get new people exercising, we were talking beginners it's you've got Les Mills On-Demand, you've got Peloton, you've got these other businesses that are doing great stuff in this digital space. A large portion of their client base are current exercisers or regular exercisers. Yes, we've we've mocked up some new people and we've got a new group fitness which is great. What we really need to do is find a real specific focus towards the absolute beginner and that's where like here in China we've got Keep. Keep is a great app for beginners.

Will:  

I've seen keep actually, it's really interesting.

Matt  

The Fit is a company that I've got the they've got the boutique gyms but they've got the boutique gyms with a little personal strength training studio or little gym and bolted on and getting more into the online space of coaching plans six-week workouts. But absolutely, that they are going for the beginners they want to make people move. And I think that's what we're gonna see in China is a big growth in new exercises and the young generation coming through, they've got more role models ahead of them, because they're seeing more people exercising, there's more education, there's more knowledge, there's more social media presence. And I think we will see a big drive and a boom into people that have done zero exercise to actually startinng to get moving. Yeah. Which was awesome. You know, because like you said, that's, that's what we're trying to do, right?

Will:  

Yeah, exactly and, and it's fulfilling to seeing someone coming from a standing start, like seeing someone that comes into your class, and they're an athlete, and it might be great to watch them. But ultimately, there's nothing more fulfilling than seeing someone come to your class looking like they are scared as hell going up and saying hi before class and seeing that point through the class where they're smiling and not looking around and watching people are watching them. They're just enjoying the class. It's great. And you don't and as you said, you can do it digitally. Like it's not like there's a a restriction on how you can do that. You can do that through having a walking group at your gym, where you just like, okay, we're all gonna meet at 8am and go for a walk and bring your mom, like your mom's a bit sedentary, she's got diabetes, why don't you just bring your mom along and we'll go for an hour long walk.

Matt  

Yes, it is a change isn't it? It's a real, it's a real change in our dynamic of what we got excited about originally. Yeah. 

Will:  

I got excited about being onstage in front of 150 people. That was what got me into teaching if I'm being perfectly honest. 

Matt  

And then and then through training and exactly, me too. And it was it was great. It was and being able to travel and getting some free fitness gear and being able to rock at any gym, or workout. And all that stuff is it's like icing on the cake. It's nice. But if that was our if that was at the heart of why we did what we did, we would have failed long ago, you know.

Will:  

Yeah, well we'd  no longer be in it, right?

Matt  

Yeah, we started that way it was we had that in us. But somewhere deep down was the core of why we're really doing it. And we managed to find that somehow. And so I feel that people like you and I we're lucky that we found that and we're able to find an avenue to share that and help other people to find that. And I think that's where this this is really, really key because even a couple of times recently, I've had exactly that situation where you've seen someone in class and you know, they might be a little overweight, but deconditioned a bit nervous, timid, you know, they're not quite following well, but you might have just said something that got them to do just three more seconds of an exercise. Let's do another jumping jack or just you know, push for another four seconds. And then you see that success in their face and how they feel really good that you you just said that one little thing that helps them get across the line. And it's not about doing push ups on your toes or high knee runs, or 2,2,3,1 chest-up, abs on. It's one connection where you've seen someone idi face to face and you've said something that's made a difference to them feeling better about themselves in that moment and you can't take that away. You know, they then go and shower, they go home and they feel really good about that and that's the kind of stuff that means, you know, they're, they're nicer to their kids, they're better to their husband. They feel better, you know, they feel more confident, they wake up better the next day, they want to come back and do it again, they want to bring a friend with them and, and all the stuff that we preach that we want to happen in the industry. It actually does happen with moments like that. You know, it's, it's a real change and dynamic and, and I'm glad that you've got your platform that we're used to this sort of stuff. And I, you know, and I see what you're doing with shift, and I see what you're doing with your podcast and your content. And I love that, and I respect you for doing that. And I think that's, you know, for me as well seeing you break away and do your own thing like that I'm, you know, like so we've gone back a long time with the Les Mills world, we've gone through similar journeys, and then different journeys. But ultimately, we're both trying to do the same thing. And I think what you're doing is really good stuff and really important stuff and it's in it's out there making a difference. Same with people like Bevin, you know, with his couch to 5k. Yeah, making it easy, making it quick, getting beginners moving. You know, it's, it's not about being on the biggest stage, or being famous anymore. It's about real people. And it's about helping other people. And, and I love that. And so yeah, hats off to you, man. You're doing great stuff.

Will:  

Thank you very much. Well, I think that like on that note, I actually want I have one final question. I was gonna ask you your observations about where the industry is going. But I think you've pretty much summed that up. The one thing I did want to ask is, you are now in a position where you are kind of selecting who are the next stars of fitness in China, where the fitness is burgeoning, and coming through, if you could give a fitness instructor who is starting off who's early in their career, one piece of advice for being successful in the industry as it is today. What would that piece of advice be? 

Matt  

That's the $6 million question. 

Will:  

Yeah, exactly. I'm sure you've been asked this before, but I'm putting you on the spot.

Matt  

Because I think,, because it does change, you know, it changes if you're talking to new instructors, or experienced instructors, people that have lost a bit of passion or need to find their way again, or people that are, you know...

Will:  

Okay, let's say, okay, I'll narrow down for you...been in the industry, two or three years wanting to, wanting to, wanting to get to the next stage of popularity and potentially getting opportunities to be more of the face or name of something, what would be the thing that you would focus on? So let's say that there's someone says, okay, let's let's go real specific. This is a, a instructor in China, who wants to be part of the Les Mills presenter team in China, what what is your advice to them in order to make that next step? That's interesting, because--

Will:  

 Have a very large social media following.

Matt  

It's interesting, because, like, you are, right, although that is my role. So I look after trainers and presenters, and people want to be on the team, and they want to do, you know, train instructors, they want to go on the big stage. And, and here, there is that big rockstar thing. So there is a very big, you know, clubs are trying to recruit the rockstar. So if you've got a big name with, so for me, it's in the Les Mills world. So someone like, you know, someone like Luna, for example, is a big body pump icon, can actually recruit her, they know, it's gonna be good for business. And yeah, we've got the body pump queen of China, is going to be great for them. So, you know, we know that people in those positions are very well respected here in China, and possibly more so than globally. So I think it is a pinnacle of your career, when you're in that position, you're able to get a better income from your club, you're able to leverage that, obviously, through social media and stuff. So I'm fully behind that. And I promote that. And if anyone wants that, I will, I will back them 100% of the way. But oddly enough, my focus around helping instructors be successful, isn't driving them towards that, because you know, only a very few amount of people can get that. 

Will:  

It's a means right, like, it's like a it's a finite opportunity. Listen, you're at the back end of it, no more opportunities at your age.

Matt  

It's funny, because I see people that crave that so much, and I love that about them, I want them to be hungry, I want them to upskill and develop and, you know, do the networking and do all the right things and more power to them. And I will promote that and push them as all the way. But I find myself more and more talking about "it's what you do in your day to day classes". And when I look back over my journey, those moments that I really look back on fondly, that are where I've had the voyage of self discovery, where I've met new people where I've, you know, been fortunate enough to have these opportunities and find new things in the industry or create new paths. It's it's not been around being on stage, or being on a DVD, those few moments that are great highlights, but the real magic moments that I look back on around that and how I've helped other people so I think for me, the big piece of advice is always around teach with passion more than perfection. So I just love the whole love what you do show it make it fun, be a great motivator, be a great connector. Don't worry if you make mistakes or get your choreography wrong. It's passion, passion, passion will always beat perfection. And I want the industry to be fun and engaging. And I want people to be unique and themselves and be quirky and be different. But then if you if you come under that with what are the sort of key points, so I guess there's three key points one is around upskilling yourself. So look for cool ways to keep growing and developing. Search outside the industry. So I touched on it earlier about, you know, public speakers watch TED Talks, how do public speakers engaging audience, how do they create community? How do they use their voice, their body language? How you know, like, music, Eminem? How does Eminem use his voice to create intensity and contrast? Like, I've learned a lot from rappers around how they use their voice for me teaching in class. You know, it could be musicians, how they do music, and so it could be actors skills, so looking outside of the industry, to make you better at what you do within the industry, because there's 100s, there's hundreds of great body pump instructors that know how to squat, and they coach. And they've done CrossFit training, they've done Olympic lifting, you know, they're bodybuilders, they've done fitness competitions, and, but it's around this connection and engaging an audience. And then obviously, with that, you've got the physical side of what I've learned on my journey is looking after your body. So to have longevity industry, you know, it's I, you know, I used to have energy drinks, and then teach combat and

Will:  

2 red Bulls and a muffin...

Matt  

Surround them with constant growth and development, to engage your audience and upskill your level of professionalism, but also to keep you interested in what you do. There's looking after your body, you know, I wish I'd done more stretching, more mobility work, more flexibility, more cross training, you know, movement patterns, yoga, Pilates, whatever, all that stuff. And I'd wish I'd done more that, look after my body better. And then the third one is around mental health. So I'm a real big advocate on mental health. And I found that since the COVID virus, and the pandemic, a lot of times when I'm delivering, and I'm talking to people about health and fitness, a big chunk of where I direct the talking is around mental health. Our job, you know, we give so much and you'd be the same as me, we've had so many highs and so many lows. And I'm sure you've had moments when you looked around your hotel room just depressed as anything. When you just get off the stage in front of 500 people and when everyone loves you, yeah, you're just like, God, I hate myself, I hate this. It's not healthy, man. It's not healthy. And I've struggled with it for many, many years. But through the pandemic, it just seemed that I was able to help a lot of other people in that space. And it actually helped me. So you know, looking at your mental health, things like writing a gratitude journal, meditation, controlling what you can control, connecting with other people. Being a service to your community, there's a whole list of things that we could dive into. But yeah, those three things underneath that: your personal growth and development, looking after your body physically, and looking after yourself mentally. And if what you do is about the people, if it's always about other people, not about yourself, you're going to have longevity and you'll be successful. And what I've seen is people that have reached those heights in in the industry, people like yourself, people like Bevan, you know, people like Joel Freeman, I watched you heard your podcast with him. Somewhere along the line, we all found out it wasn't about us, it was about them. Focus external. And we happen to be getting more success based around helping other people. And I think that's a really great message and and that's where I've kind of steered people away from, I want to be famous I want to be on stage to it's more important what you do in your club, you teach 12 classes, six classes, four classes every week. You see these people week in and week out, it's more important how you look after them than what you do in five minutes of famous onstage. So yeah, this is kind of a an irony isn't it, kind of a dichotomy.

Will:  

Yeah, I think that that pretty accurately, pretty accurately sums up a lot of what the industry is about. So thank you, Matt, for telling us about the experience in China, which I have to say is less different than I expected it to be. I don't know what I was expecting. But it sounds like the industry is kind of pumping along at relatively the same, the same style as the rest of the world.

Matt  

Yeah, I think it's it's not too different. I mean, like I touched on, I feel like the boutique things booming, maybe quicker and faster than than elsewhere. We're still kind of an emerging market. So we've got that this is working in our favor. And the speed of how things move quickly the agility and and how we are digitally. I mean, it's frightening than the numbers that we can rack up here in terms of online...

Will:  

The number of attendances in a digital class or...

Matt  

We do this event called The One which is an instructor talent search. Yeah. And it's just the regular instructors jumping on stage teaching, and we judge it like the X Factor. 

Will:  

I've seen that actually on on social media, it looks really, really cool. 

Matt  

I've never been in front of 30 million people in my whole life.

Will:  

 How many?

Matt  

30 million? Yeah, it was ridiculous. But we've got a lot of channels. So there's Weibo, DoYing, you know, there's, there's a whole bunch, but the numbers are staggering, what could happen here...But awesome talking to you..

Will:  

Yeah, you too. And I'm sure, we'll try and get you back. But next time, I want you to come back with something really random that you're doing in China that we can all learn about, like some random industry direction. Yeah. All right. Thank you very much, Matt. 

Will:  

That was my chat with Matt. Two things in particular stood out to me. The first was that the industry in China isn't that different to the industry around the world. The things that Matt described, and the trends that he is seeing are the same trends that we're seeing the world over. And what's especially heartening is that the instructor being a central part of the success of a fitness facility is here to stay. Creating social connection with the people in front of you is super important. And even in an industry like China, where they are really pivoting towards digital and virtual, being a really great instructor that connects with your audience remains super important, and is a really, really central factor and being in demand as an instructor. Side note to that, I think we're all probably quite surprised by how quickly Matt got back to teaching live classes. Fortunately, most of you listening to this will also have your classes back. So hopefully, that fact isn't too frustrating. The second thing for me was listening to how Matt's priorities and philosophies when it comes to fitness have changed over time. This conversation was going to be primarily about his experience in China. But obviously we meandered into how our approach to fitness has changed over time. Now, as I said at the start, and as you heard through the podcast, Matt and I had a similar trajectory. We both got elevated to being international presenters for Les Mills around the same time, which was a long time ago now. And we've both changed and grown into places where now we see our major contribution as being bringing other people up and through and developing others. The key thing I took from this is that you can stay in the fitness industry for a long time. But you need to appreciate that your focuses and passions will change. And making sure that you can really stay engaged with the thing that drives you. Even if that thing that drives you is completely different is the way you can stay happy. This is something we actually focus on a lot when delivering our advanced instructor training. And it's identifying what you are getting out of fitness now what motivates you and what drives you. And also having a think about what got you into fitness in the first place. So if you haven't done this for a while, and you haven't done a kind of mental self audit of why you're still in the game, I encourage you to do so. Have a think get a piece of paper, write down what first got you into fitness, and then write down what keeps you in fitness now. Identifying your reasons for doing what you're doing and aligning those with your motivations and your personal drivers is the way you can stay passionate and not only find fulfillment and happiness and what you're doing and your teaching and your classes, but also how you can deliver the most to your members. Thank you for listening. If you're enjoying the show, don't forget to subscribe for all the latest episodes wherever you get your podcasts. And while you're there, please drop us a review. You can also get in touch with me at will@sh1ftfitness.com. I'm Will Brereton and you've been listening to Group Fitness Real Talk.