Laura:

I kept reminding myself and other people that the one thing that you as a personal trainer or owner of a gym have is that personal connection. I as your trainer, I know that day that you felt sad and we talked about it, I know that injury that you've got that I need to adapt for. So we've got to realize the value that we have as individuals in that smaller community, and to try and maximise that.

Will:  

Hey, I'm Will Brereton, founder of Sh1ft Fitness and this is Group Fitness Real Talk, a show about how to survive and even thrive in group fitness in 2021 and beyond. Have you ever felt like you don't fit into a certain fitness image? Or have you struggled to find your place in an industry that doesn't always make you feel great about yourself? Today on the show, I'm talking to my good friend, Laura Hoggins. Now if you're from the UK, you may already know Laura. She's built a name for herself in the fitness industry by being authentically her. Laura has inspired a new generation of woman to be proud of their strength, both inner and physical. But if you're not a woman, I don't think that this episode isn't relevant to you because everybody can learn a lot from Laura's story. I know that personally, I have. Laura has built an incredible online community of empowered followers. She's the director of a top London boutique studio network, and has an incredible knack for building communities that make people feel included and celebrated for their individuality. In a world that might seem to praise you for losing weight or toning up, or a world that promotes eight week shreds and Beachbody challenges, Laura's approach to health, fitness and body image is a breath of fresh air and I think very much needed. This episode is full of great perspectives on the fitness industry, body image, building a community, building a fitness business, and much more. I really hope you enjoy listening to it as much as I enjoyed chatting to Laura. So, Laura, welcome to the podcast. How are you? 

Laura  

I'm good. Thank you so much. Well, for having me. I feel like this is a long time coming. 

Will:  

Absolutely. One of one of my original plan guests, but I've saved you till after a hiatus. So tell me where? Where am I talking to you from? I obviously know, but why don't you tell the listeners?

Laura  

Yes. So I am I'm in a very glamorous location actually, pre pre COVID. And this was our backup storage room, post-COVID as we are out of that scenario hopefully now, it is now our digital studio at the gym. So I've got you, just picture it, I've got squat racks behind me, plates, barbells, the temperature is not fantastic. I'm in our all new Digital Studio, which is just at the back of our main gym.

Will:  

And tell me about the gym. So for those of you those listeners that don't know,

Laura:

yeah, so I'm a director, coach, head of brand, at a gym called The Foundry, we're based in London, we've got three sites, one in Voxel, one a bit more in the city in bank, which has been obviously over the period of time being very, very quiet. And, and in Old Street, which just sort of east of London a bit more residential. So we focus on a group training model, in semi-private personal training, so one coach up to four clients, and then we have group classes, etc. Yeah, so it's, um, we've probably we're aiming for about 300 members, that's a good place. And we're just building that back up now.

Will:  

Awesome. So full disclosure, for people that are listening is The Foundry is my gym in London and my favorite gym. So that's where I train when I am back. And it's actually the original Foundry right next to my house in London, which made it very, very convenient. And those listeners that have been involved in Sh1ft will recognize the foundry from our backgrounds of various of our workouts. So we've had we've had a long relationship but I actually met you at a different gym right i think it was at Ministry of Sound Fitness back in the day was that when we first kind of made a made our acquaintance?

Laura  

Yeah, pretty much so I think it's one of those that I probably knew you'd like via social media or you know, you're obviously you're very into fitness yourself, so I think it's one of those that yes, we finally probably met in ministry of sound fitness, which has a big place in my heart and sadly, is, is no longer using the group fitness model. They've got actually a fantastic gym and what they've evolved to now but yeah, that's where we were.

Will:  

So, so take me back to how long you've been in fitness because I've as a follower of you, I kind of know your history, but I think it's quite interesting like so why don't you take the listeners through how you got into fitness and your journey up till now don't feel that you need to kind of labor over point but um, but I often often see your posts about how you started when you started your fitness journey you were working in an office job and living a quite different lifestyle to the lifestyle you live now, right?

Laura  

It's actually mad to think that I kind of feel like you know, fitness is my job and has been forever, it kind of feels more me It's my, my purpose, let's call it it's not my calling. But actually I've been in fitness full time for just over five years, which is half the amount of time that I had a previous career. So I've graduated from University, Business Studies in marketing in the UK and started my career at a company called Unilever which is a big fmcg company and the sort of the company behind brands you should know like your links and those I mean, hopefully --

Will:  

Hopefully no one uses it but you know, you've seen the ads...

Laura  

But yeah, just sort of a big a big global company and in sales marketing role. Five years there, a bit of a hiatus in the Cayman Islands. Maybe I'll talk about that another time. Then spent more time underwater than I did above it. And then I was at L'Oreal for five years and various sales and marketing roles across brands at L'Oreal Paris, Garnier Maybelline. And it was just always been my dream, my passion to be in work in fitness. I think if I if I take myself back to when I left university, I thought you know, that's the thing to do. I need to get a degree, God knows why for I that was just sort of the pressures in, in and around my schools, etc, college, and it was a dumb thing to do. And then I had a job at David Lloyd in one of their flagship clubs in Weybridge in Surrey, which is unbelievable. And I worked there various roles in f&b in the kids clubs, looking up at the PT floor, like one day, trying to get my experience. And then I just, it's a strange one, really, because I'd like to think I always had quite a lot of confidence. But this I just never had the confidence at that stage to go right, I'm going to get qualified and I'm going to be a personal trainer. And I looked at the gym floor, there was no women pts. And you know, certainly if there was they were six foot tall, probably look Swedish, you know, very, very slim, and tall, that toning and and it just wasn't, it wasn't me. And I couldn't see myself in the fitness landscape. So fast forward 10 years, I thought I've absolutely had it now. I'm going to give this a go. Because if I don't, I'll regret it forever. And at that time, I was 30, I turned 30 and I was thinking God I'm a bit old to do this now. But you know, whatever, here I am. It was petrifying. And I'm so glad that I did it. But it's not easy. I think, you know, people look at me what I'm doing today and director of one of the best gyms in London. And it didn't come without a lot of hard graft and a lot of uncertainty, I would say.

Will:  

Yeah, totally. So I want to delve more into kind of how you got to where you are because you're now a presenter on Fit, which is a massive big digital fitness platform. You're a director of the foundry as you said, you've written a book, you're a speaker at various events, like in five years, that is a long way to come. But let's wind it back a little bit. I am going to ask about that. But what got you into fitness? Like what was the step you took you, did you leave your job? Or did you part time study in PT? Like what was it the kind of leveraged you out of what you were doing into this?

Laura  

So I've always been sporty. So when I was, without boring you, like when I was three, haha, when I when I was younger. I was I played football. I played for a great club in my early teens and have played with Chelsea girls. I played netball. I was into Judo and canoe clubs. I was just my poor parents just you know. I needed I just loved team sport. It wasn't necessarily fitness, the train the fitness part, the training of it, I didn't love doing laps around the pitch that shuffle runs, not really my jam, but I love that, you know, physical pursuit on you know, for a common goal with a team. And so I've always I've always been into that. And then sort of in my later career, I sort of got into running as probably most women do because they got you know, maybe maybe I was coming out of a breakup in my personal life and right I need to, you know, revenge body to pedestrian, right? I need to get thin ASAP because that is how it's done. Right. So I started running and running and running. And then I thought, God, this is hard. I don't really enjoy it. So I thought, right. I'm quite extreme. I'm quite all or nothing person on this podcast, that is the I'm running the London Marathon because if I commit to that, you know, internally externally, I'll have to do it and I'll 100% I'll be thin by the end of it. And I was and I got to this goal weight that I probably felt overweight at the time which is ridiculous looking back at photos now, nothing on me, five foot two very slight, probably bad knees, you know, I wasn't as in strength training or whatever so then I was like okay right I've done this running thing, I'll be honest, I didn't really enjoy it. I started doing I had a membership virgin active which was the gym that next to the office at L'Oreal and started going to these classes this unbelievable Les Mills instructor, she is what I just looked and I thought, Wow, you are a boss, she had so much energy, I could not work out how she could talk and do the exercises. You know very well Will, and you're you're dancing days as well. And I started going to body pump and I was like, Oh my God, this barbell and I feel like a boss and we're listening to pink and I'm doing the reps and you know, you start to learn a bit about technique and I thought I like this weights business. It feels good. 

Will:  

So this is something I didn't know about you, so body pump was your entry into lifting. That's super interesting, because that's obviously not where you are now and that's something that I don't think I knew before, even though I like know you pretty well and I feel that we've talked a lot about fitness.

Laura  

Yeah, it's so it's so mad thinking about it now because like I'd sort of did the body pump, you know, the body attack that was a bit more chaotic was a bit more I just really thought you know, this this barbell business I really like and, you know, doing the different releases and that was kind of fun. It was but you know, big endorphin rush of course, before I then was stressed to my eyeballs sat down at an office you know, in, in the in the wonderful world that is L'Oreal. It was amazing. And then suddenly, a friend said to me, Listen, I've got a mate who's left his job as a lawyer, and he's not he started this CrossFit gym, in Hammersmith, over the road, I think it's near office, and I thought what is CrossFit? We were trying to get fit in and they're just getting really cross I don't know. I want to taste the class. And I again, I saw this big, bad, boss woman who was taking this class and she was muscular. She was athletic. She, she was she owned energy in the room, and I did this taster class and I honestly was I saw the light, I was near death. And it was just, it was body pump on speed with heavier weights, you know, box jumps, all the kit. And I thought wow, this is it. This is the next step for me. You know, I've completed body pump for now.

Will:  

Onto the big girl weights now.

Laura  

Yeah, well, it's you know, it's difficult because you know, body pump is all in cap, you know, you start the journey. It's like a roller coaster, you're on it. And then you finish like, Oh my god, what just happened? Whereas with CrossFit, there is this element of skill, and is that, you know, gymnastics and maximal strength progressions that I thought yeah, I think I'm ready for that. So I started CrossFit. And I was that that mean, that was like if you do CrossFit and you're vegan, what do you tell people first?

Will:  

So this is this is your Instagram origin story, too, isn't it?

Laura  

Exactly. So my Instagram handle was biceps and bronzer. At 6am, I took my body genetically took all this this strength training volume quite quickly in my on my shoulders, and my tracks and my bicep, everything just grew massive. So I sort of grew out of my popping out of my denim shirts that I used to wear after all this running. And yes, then I was selling makeup in the day. So biceps and bronzer, started, you know, posting these really low quality, terrible videos of me doing all these weird things with the barbell. And it just started people were like, wow, what are you doing? God, that's interesting, because no one had heard of CrossFit in London six years ago, it was a really new thing. I genuinely think there was 10 independent CrossFit boxes when I started. Yep. And I really enjoyed it. And then going through that journey myself, I thought, hang on a minute, I'm so enthusiastic. I'm so passionate about all these different types, you know, the early days of sport of sports, you know, the body pump, the endorphin rush, how I felt in the technique and the community that CrossFit gave me. And I want to, I want to bring this to as many people as I can. So I started having a little look around at you know, where can I still don't see myself working the gym floor as a PT, a virgin active...I think they're great clubs. I needed something a little bit different. And I found The Foundry. I did a class called strong man, it's now called strong, and we decided to take the man out of it as a woman. It wasn't it wasn't quite fair. So yeah, strong class. It has modified strongman training, which Will is absolutely a boss.

Will:  

It is it's one of my favorite classes I have, so I have to neaten some my appearances because I get too excited and put my back out. But um,

Laura  

Will walked in a bit sheepishly and it's about it's a bicep curl..but yeah, it's modified strongman training is something that has been around for a while, but the co-founders Ben Gotting and Dave Thomas of The Foundry started the gym, from sort of a professional athlete backgrounds. They're both ex-rugby, and full of injuries. I mean, Ben's had 5 million sorry, Ben, if you're listening, 5 million knee replacements has had lots of lots of operations...

Will:  

which makes him very good at dealing with people with injuries. I like his, which is something I've heard, that he's nursed me back from, from slipped discs a couple of times...

Laura  

Yeah you know, he knows and you know, Dave, again, sorry, Dave, if you're listening, but his nickname at university, I think was hospital Dave had so many sort of, you know, rugby accidents and come off his bike and all sorts of things. So, between them, they've had a bit of a ride. And they, they were passionate about making a place that felt safe, that was community based and around the the, the essence of where the strong belong, it's not about a place where you have to fit in, it's where you can come as you are, and you will belong, you know, in in all of your individual glory. And we've got people who are very well trained, good training age, very, very strong. And we've got people who have never set inside of a gym before. And I think that's the beauty of it. Really.

Will:  

Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's certainly my experience at the foundry because I have I like a bit similar to you, I got into fitness through gym teaching classes, obviously, obviously, I was doing Les Mills for years and years. I tried CrossFit. And because of a few biomechanical issues that I've got, CrossFit just doesn't work for me like I just cannot do some of the movements and and I'm also been a fitness for long enough that I'm aware that you know, be doing a snatch is great. But doing a snatch doesn't actually help you to do anything other than do the snatch. And the foundry was somewhere where I could go and feel like I was doing strength training and achieving those aims, but not having to do it in a way that was putting me into a box that I didn't fit in, which was being able to do the Olympic lifting, because I just don't have the squat dip before the or the, or the back to be able to do that. So there's a couple of themes in what you were saying that I do want to come back to and that specifically around kind of how you got into fitness around being thin and then took to strength straightaway. And also about being inspired by a strong woman and wanting to find that within the fitness industry. Before we get there, I do want to talk a little bit because we have a lot of instructors who are listening. And many instructors who recently, during the pandemic and a little bit before have more and more realized how important it is to build a brand in order to drive their way through their career. And I think that a lot of people sort of a few years ago would have thought, Well, you know, my fitness career will be going and working for David Lloyd or a virgin. And they will provide me with a constant source of PT revenue, or they'll provide me with a slot on the timetable. And that was that was a given right. And that so the the tables have been flipped. And that certainly doesn't work anymore. And everyone is much more of the understanding that building your own brand, understanding who you are and where you want to go is super important for actually having a career in fitness. So you got into it five years ago, you have a career that a lot of people would be super jealous and enviable of and I know that it's been a lot of hard work, but how did you come so far so fast? What would you put it down to?

Laura  

So I'm actually going to rewind a little bit from when I first started out and sort of shared I was very scared about trying to carve my way in this industry because the language you know, stood in London at that time was very much around toning, and you know, abs definitely equal fitness. So it was kind of a far away from what I deemed to be fitness like fit for what fit for a photoshoot, or five. And that kind of that kind of attitude I really felt passionately about, but there wasn't a lot of people talking about it. And I saw a lot of advice from you know, a great network in London of people some some gave me I think some great advice some with great intent actually gave me some terrible advice and I'm really proud that I didn't take it because that was what

Will:  

What was the terrible advice, I have to know? We won't throw anyone under the bus.

Laura  

So as a woman who is trying to promote and carve their way in an industry via strength training, you can imagine when bingo wings were still the chat, I was going to find this difficult. And they said that the advice they said to me on my Instagram, they said, I they said if you want to talk to this woman that you want to train and educate her about the benefits of strength training, you've got to stop posting all these big lifts. You can't, you can't show them all of your training because you're going to scare them off.

Will:  

The whole you know your muscles cause size and no one wants size and all this all this rubbish that has been perpetuated within the industry for years and years and years.

Laura  

Exactly. And they were like well, actually, I think you should you should dilute what you do to serve that you know to be better serving their language to talk about toning and lower reps and low you know, higher reps and lower weights and, and that's strength training and I thought but it isn't. It might be you know, you're a total beginner, there are obviously elements that you need to master in terms of foundational movement patterns. But all I could see was like these pulses near this bar style thing being being talked about as strength training.

Will:  

They're like standing at the bar and just doing little leg flutters. I was about to say that I'm not I'm not poo pooing that as a training style. It's just, it's just a different type of training style, right?

Laura  

Yeah, I've been to one. I went to a wonderful woman in London, Ashley Burma, she runs a studio called Define. And I went to go to her class, and oh, my god, I can't tell you..

Will:  

I've been humbled a couple of times, once in a once in a hot Pilates class and once in a barre class where I was like blowing out and I consider myself to be pretty fit. But yeah, ouch. Anyway, sorry, we digress.

Laura  

I agree with you that, that's not me. That's not me being being harsh about Barre, it's very, very difficult. But as a as a training style, it just, it wasn't sort of, you know, where I was at. And it was a time where sort of Instagram had started I've got this account, I'm posting people are starting to interact with me like, what's she doing? That's weird. And it was around the strong, not skinny hashtag. And I remember it getting big. And you know, it's just strength training started to be like this thing. And it wasn't really like I said, but I never really just always grated on me. I thought, well, why is there this, you have to be strong or skinny, right? I couldn't work it out. So it's like, you know, I have been skinny and I'm still or, you know, there are other people genetically that are set up differently to me, and that's always grated on me. And I always thought what I'm going to park it for now I'm going to ride this, you know, development of strength training, see where I get to. And actually, I found this will definitely be my advice to anyone in the industry, speaking my authentic true mission and attitude has been what has got me to where I am now. And no, I might not be the most, you know, popular. I might not have a million followers on Instagram, like pushy seller or you know, these other people that are owning that real global market who are doing a fantastic job and encouraging lots of people to train. Actually, I don't need a million people to have a fantastic business. And actually, I always saw myself as Yes, having an online platform is a form to communicate and try to inspire and encourage women. And yes, there's an opportunity that you can make money via is that coaching or collaborating with brands, but I always wanted to say to myself, I will never be described as an influencer, it could be described as a part of what I do fine, and a person of influence, but I'm a personal trainer. And that's what I wanted to ensure that I was on the gym floor. I was learning I was authentic. I was in front of people every single day. And just what I experienced there, I was then able to share with people that maybe I couldn't physically get to. So I guess that that was my, that was my start. I started talking about Hey, girls, you should strength train, actually, what about this? And people started going, wow, actually, I never thought about that. And wow, as soon as I did a deadlift today, and oh my god, it's just weird feeling of like empowerment of doing something that you didn't think you could in God, I'd much prefer it to running. And it was, I just I always said to myself, I wanted to wave this little flag in the corner, no matter how big or small my following was just to say, hey, listen, you don't have to do that. If you want you can come and do this. And no judgment either way, I believe everyone should strength train, but like you said, there's lots of different ways in which you can do it. And that could be style, location, community online offline and this hybrid model now and there's, you know, so many amazing, you know, like what you've created with shift, right? You know, with lift, people can learn to lift at home, you don't even have to go to a gym anymore. So that I'd say for me is was the making of me. And that's why I'm sort of spoken about now, as sort of a you know, a bit like a tweet saying there have been three write in that. I didn't else doing? I think Joe Wicks is fantastic. It's not for me.

Will:  

That's the most diplomatic way of describing me. Yeah, yeah.

Laura  

I'm all about if people are inspired and moving in this safe, and it's Yeah, I'm all for it. It doesn't have to be with me. There's something out there for everyone.

Will:  

I completely agree. We've actually talked to a lot of the guests that I've had on this podcast have often said the same thing, which is basically that you can't you just can't get anywhere. There's, there's no we're worth going if you aren't going to be your authentic self. And it's kind of niching down and appreciating that you don't have to be for everyone. And I think it's something that we've that I've repeated it with a number of gifts. Like if you try and be for everyone then you just end up being for no one right? And some people managed to do it and some like Joe works and soup some super successful people managed to kind of be that personality where they can resonate with everyone. But that's really difficult for most people and probably out of reach. But that doesn't mean that you can't sort of niche down to understand who you are and the change you want to be and then reach those people in particular.

Laura  

Exactly, exactly. And honestly, if I tried to be, you know, a different style than I naturally am, it would be exhausting. It's hard enough as it is. So I think it's, you know, I always remind myself, I'm not for everyone, and everyone's not for me. I truly believe that I can help people through my experience, and through professional application of everything I've learned and apply at the foundry.

Will:  

It's a tough thing to be right. Because when you're trying to you want everyone that comes to your class to have a great experience, and then you can kind of dialect that dialect, dilute that down into, I want everyone to like me, and then that becomes a thing that kind of gnaws away at the back of you. But the reality is that, like, everybody likes different things. Do you like everyone? No. Do you think badly of someone you don't like now? You just don't like, they're just not your cup of tea, right?

Laura  

Yeah, that's the thing. And that's, that's hard as well to accept maybe my older days. Yeah, I'm 36 now, and I fully accept that that's going to be okay. And he was one of the things one of the biggest things I wrote in my, in my book, lift yourself, was around from a training perspective and in business professionally, just you cannot, you cannot worry about what anyone else thinks. Because you'll just waste your time, crack on with the people that are inspired and are working with you and you know, the networks that you can learn from, and let them get on with what they're getting on with.

Will:  

human nature there. Right? Like, you've never talked to 20 people and 18 people walk out happy and two people like look like they had a great day, I had a terrible time. And all you can do is think oh, God what did I do?

Laura  

Yeah, so a classic example of this. I was actually talking to Ben, one of the cofounders of foundry yesterday, we had a class and outdoor class that we've been that we've been running, and we've got two reviews for it. One was five stars. Oh my god, I love the foundry. Everything about it. It was fantastic. Second review, one star, it was a terrible experience. No, the weights were too heavy for me. So you've got the same environment adn two people that would tell 10 friends how amazing it was. And another person that's going to tell 10 friends, it was the worst experience ever. And you've got to take that on the chin a little bit. You know, you know what it's like from you know, your what you do, and we cannot please everyone you know, and I'm probably more interested to understand why we're the ones star. But even more interested in that the people that gave me three or four stars, because they liked us, it just wasn't quite good enough. The one star's never gonna come back. It was so far away from what they expected. It's the three and four stars. You think, oh, hang on a minute, how could we adapt to make you want to come back to us?

Will:  

Yeah, completely. So on that note, kind of about sort of understanding who you are and who you are for. Now, you've talked about the fact that when you started off in the fitness industry, you didn't see, or you had some inspiring sort of female role models and certain elements, but you didn't necessarily see yourself reflected. You also talked a little bit about how when you were running, it was all about being thin, and then you found lifting and gotten to being strong. Talk to me a little bit about how it how it feels now to probably be, well not to probably be, to be a role model for women in the industry that are looking to focus on strength and not on purely aesthetics or on being thin or on being lean and being toned. Like is that, because I think that all all people within the fitness industry struggle struggle with body image, women struggle with a more because just generally in society, like the expectations are so different? And is that something that you came to gradually? Like, are you do you feel now that you're completely comfortable in your skin? Or do you still have moments where you sometimes feel a little bit a little bit unconfident, in confident, unconfident? Or, or are you now like, totally in the zone of where you are? Yeah, so that was a terrible way of asking the question. The question is, do you ever have self doubt? How's that?

Laura  

Well, the short answer is, yes. Always. I don't think that's ever going to go but I feel quite grateful that I'm in a position now where my body confidence is significantly better than it used to be like it used to be really bad, like really bad. I look back at that, that woman and think, Oh, god, that was stressful for you. And you know, I think that maybe men as well with a lot of women have that journey in their lives. And maybe it may be it's just not given up, but I'm just exhausted by it. And I'll describe myself as being content. Now. Not every day do I feel incredible amazing. And obviously women as well we have the wonderful thing as the menstral cycle. It can be a nightmare to manage and deal with so every everyday brings its challenges but generally, on the whole, I'm absolutely content. And the funny thing, I was actually talking to someone this week about the pressures of social media, like I've always said social media will be a tool for communicating, not my everything, because an Instagram finally goes, which it will maybe not, I don't know. But we all remember myspace. And that's not in my life today.

Will:  

Yeah. And we will link to Laura's Instagram in this because Laura has a very active Instagram. And so when when you talk about this, I think it's you're talking about someone who invests a lot of time and making sure that your Instagram is something of value.

Laura  

Yeah, and I tried to be really, really honest, and not in an honest way of, you know, crying down, you know, down at the, you know, there is a filter there there is I do keep it, you know, some level of privacy to myself, but I try to repeat the same messages and try and show an insight into how do I walk my talk on a daily basis, and I see a lot on Instagram, I see a lot of women that are big on Instagram, and that sort of sort of going through these trends, body confidence, body positivity, you know, this thing, and I will, I don't believe I mean, you can play this back to me five years. I don't ever believe I'm going to be that person that's going to take a photo of a fat roll or a my cellulite and go, Oh, you know, I have cellulite too. You know, it's okay. If I don't connect with that message.

Will:  

Right, there's that trend right now of doing the side by side where one's someone slouching or bending over slightly, and they've got a bit of a fat roll. And the other ones of them doing a booty pop. And they're like, same person, it's like, well, no kidding. But I get I get where you're going from this. But now this is turning into like just just yet another form of of making it all about aesthetics. It's my look at look at how I look at how I think I can look in this photo on the left. But looking at how hot I am on the photo on the right.

Laura  

Also on that this might be me just being I don't know, a little bit, I'm not sure about it. This, the photo that is meant to be worse is actually fantastic.

Will:  

Yeah, well yeah, exactly.

Laura  

You've not really gone for it there. You've you've sort of held a little bit back. So you sort of doing both

Will:  

Well you know that that person still took 100 photos of the bad version and chose the least bad or the bad that they were comfortable putting out to the world.

Laura  

Exactly. And I guess from my perspective, I just tried to show myself as naturally and authentically as I can. And I'll post the damn photo and if I've got five chins or one chin. I like the photo to be honest and I'm sure actually if I looked back and I looked at my photos, oh gosh, yeah, you're right? There is some steady light there or, well, gosh, when I do that there is some wobble or whatever, whatever it is, yeah, my weightlifting belt of you. What if nothing is that flattering really is apart from that one still under the professional lighting at an event that you went to. So I just think it's about posting it and just don't mention it. I like I say when I'm most when I'm most confident with my body is when I'm not thinking about it. Right?

Will:  

Yeah, because at the end of the day, those posts, well intentioned as they might be, they're just they just still focus everything in on specific aesthetics and a look right. And at the end of the day, like if you're someone who and I, I consider myself in this bucket as well, I have been through times of worrying a lot about what I look like and I still care, right like I still, like feel better about myself when I'm a little bit leaner, or, but I've managed to kind of put that into the backseat, and now the driver's seat is about to turn 40 and I'm really happy that I still have the ability to do all of these things that I can do, there's certain things I can't I can't go skiing and I can't do dead lifts, but you know, I can still go into a class or I can run around or I can go on to go on a hike and all this sort of stuff and that's what I value and I've just stopped trying to let the aesthetic side of things have any influence on my happiness as a person. It still does. Like I'm not gonna suggest like I'm enlightened and I've got away from it but but they'd like it I try to make it I try to make it not something I focus on and I make it something I never talk about or focus with other people on.

Laura  

Exactly yeah and this is the thing that I agree with you, I want to look good, I'm human we want to go look good on holiday or look good in the gym, we want to wear our clothes well, like I'm not suggesting that I'm completely just ignoring it and whatever you know, I still I still I still work definitely wants but it's just my values have changed and there was one time it was about two or three years ago that I was training and you know, I would suggest that people would describe me as quite athletic. And you know, I've got I've got quite a muscular frame when I train on my shoulders, my everything gets gets quite, I was training really well, and someone came to me said, oh, gosh, Laura, you look like you've, you've lost weight. And I was like, oh my god, really? That's awful. They couldn't believe it, they couldn't believe it. She said, I've never seen a woman just be. 

Will:  

How, I just gave her a compliment. 

Laura  

Yeah. I was like, really, where? Oh no. And so actually, you know, I'm really proud of you today in my head. Because you didn't you know, go, "Yes. Thank you. Being thin doesn't matter. No, actually, I'm just just doing what I am. And you know, I feel, I feel happy. And the most content I've ever been at about eight kilos, 10 kilos more than my goal weight whenever that was when I was running everywhere.

Will:  

With much better knees probably. Yeah, exactly. So tell me about like the the woman that comes to your class back when you started and then woman you've become now like, have you seen a change in the overall industry in the way that that women are approaching fitness, group fitness, lifting, all that sort of stuff in the time that you've been with? Because I think I have, but I'm really curious to know you, because you're obviously much closer to it than me.

Laura  

Totally, I think well, the sheer number of us. So I think you know that the statistics show, I think I saw the statistics for EMD. And you can see that strength training as a percentage has grown over the last, let's say, four or five years, I think CrossFit had a lot to do with that. I think we've got more female role models that are of a more athletic builds. And, you know, we're starting to talk more about the sort of the benefits strength training, and I guess, particularly with here at the foundry, I was the I was the first female employee, really, first time, you know, full time coach. And now we've got six, seven female coaches out of, you know, coaching team of like, 18. So, actually, we're about 30-40% of the coaching team here. And I think that there's an evolution of just this acceptance. And this actually, yeah, there is a you know, women can have an authority in strength training, you know, you've got, you know, women you've seen CrossFit, like, you see Tia Claire Tooney, who's you know, competed at the highest level in Olympic weightlifting, for Commonwealth for Australia, and she's won the CrossFit Games, and you've got, you know, British women like Donna Moore, you know, she's world's strongest woman, you know, she can deadlift, 240 kilos, and the rest, and, you know, we're just starting to look at these women and go, Wow, like, they're absolutely capable to be stronger than most men. So I think it has taken time. And I did fight that a little bit, or you know, that being the only woman in a lot of environments. But I guess for me, I was always, I've always been used to that was the only woman it was any girl at football at school, I was the only girl in my Judo club, you know, so I'm used to that. So I'm used to having to sort of fight my way through a little bit. So doesn't really bother me. I think. I'm very fortunate that the network of men that I work with are huge supporters of women. And you know, Ben and Dave, and you know, thinking it through years ago, when I started here, you guys at x-rugby, Mark Highland,  Ali McKenzie, those guys are five times my size, but I've learned so much from them. And they, they empower me to take the lead. And I think it's just you've got to, you've got to, in order to be it, you've got to see it. And you know, so as I sort of hastily refer to myself, as a pioneer, I sort of pub called calls my own path a little bit, the unknown. And hopefully, I've opened the door for lots of other women to come with me. And hopefully, they, you know, they'll, they'll, they'll rise and go and do their own thing. So I think it's always it's always got to have someone that takes takes the lead, and I think there's lots of women in our industry that have done so.

Will:  

I think you had like speaking as someone who's been following you through this journey, I think that you should feel proud of yourself, because you definitely definitely have had an impact on on the on the woman that you work with, and also just the people that you know, you connect with through social media in terms of role modeling a type of fitness that they may not have seen before. So on that, on that note, where are the gaps that you think exists in the industry at the moment, like where are the places that you still see either a lack of representation for things you need to see represented, or, or just a bit of a bit of an industry failing that you think needs to be needs to be taken care of. So as the fitness industry comes back, right, like we're all in position, we've just had this big hiatus, digital fitness has become this thing. We're getting back into live fitness, are there any sort of parts of the industry that are still sort of lacking or falling behind that you think need to be need to be dealt with?

Laura  

Yeah, that's a really great question. And I think when I look at the industry as a whole, and you know, as with every industry, you know, fitness industry is a commercial industry we had to make to survive. And, you know, it's slightly strange making money from people's health and well being. And that's really what I see as trying to, you know, like you say, training people for life so that when they're 50, 60, whatever, you know, they do these things. 

Will:  

And that's something where COVID may have a long term, sort of positive impact on the overall industry, right? Because now people are aware, well, if the next pandemic comes along, then the best way to not die is to be fit. And like, put put that way it like, but it has resonated with people, like people now realize that if they want to fight off any type of illness, but also, you know, the ones that were there before, right, diabetes, obesity, heart disease, all that sort of stuff, they're all diseases of an activity. And that can be helped by any type of activity, whatever it is, whether it be lifting, whether it be walking, whether it be sport, you know, like Zumba, whatever they do, it's, it's good, there is no bad movement.

Laura  

Exactly. And I do very much agree with that. But what I what I do struggle with is exercise selection, intensity, and frequency. Now one of the things that we sort of we stand by at the foundry is our is our strength programming, right? So we have progressive programming that is following a plan, there's so many things that you we you know, we want people to hip hinge, squat, you know, single leg work, single arm work, push ups, you know, there's only so many things that are useful and effective and efficient in terms of developing your your health and fitness. But the industry as fitness is, you know, here we go, sex sells. And the fun, interesting things are always going to be up there. So I remember when I started in the industry, there was a particular gym chain, a boutique gym chain that did a seven day shred. And I always thought that is so irritating, because what is communicating that a) you need to shred, annd b) that seven days will complete that for you. But it's the exercise that is going to get that. So you know, I think there's the misconception that I would love is the sort of the HIIT the high intensity stuff for people just to appreciate that actually, to make progress, to develop your strength, actually bull bagging yourself every single day at that top, you know that peak heart rate zone, is actually not the best for you, there's only so much stress that we can manage. And depending on your goals, and if your goals are to tone up or you know, reduce your body fat to achieve fat loss, you've got to address the other things in your life, there's no exercise that will that will do that for you.

Will:  

Right, you've got to have sleep, you got to have nutrition, you got to have appropriate stress levels by the bed that are dealt with through both exercise and sleep and eating. And you need to have recovery days right? I think that that's definitely a shift in the industry. I think that people with at the top of the industry are definitely doing that. Like if I look to say Beachbody who did p90x and insanity, right which were you know, smash yourself every day and then get shredded. Even they now program in recovery days to their to their workouts like I think the industry has changed. But you're right as as the industry changes, it takes a while for that perception to come down to the average user and the average user can can still be sold in by like, I take F45, F45 do absolutely horrific marketing for the fitness industry. But I really like F45,, I go to it. And I enjoy it because it's just a circuit class. It's a circuit class with a whole lot of equipment that you can just rock up to it, smash yourself, and go. I don't go to the strength days because I don't think you should be working that intensely and lifting heavily but I love the cardio days like battle rope, slam balls, kettlebells, jumping, PliYo, love it. But the way they do it...Or Barry's doing Hell Week. Again, terrible, just bad, bad bad messaging. It's and this has nothing against F45 and Barry's, who I use and I think great workouts, but I get why they do it right. Because at the end of the day, before and after, like get your wedding body, get your holiday body, get yourself in shape for New Year's, unfortunately, that sells and so the industry is forever caught in this tension between knowing full well that that's a bad message and knowing full well that that will sell a membership and getting stuck in the middle. Right?

Laura  

Like you know, we were talking about our, our messaging and I look after the social media, for the gym for the foundry and it is the most boring message to say, hey, join our gym. It's rather expensive. And you'll be doing probably the seven same seven movement patterns over and over again for the rest of your life. And some days you will not enjoy it some days you might and that's the worst marketing message I've ever heard.

Will:  

So even though it's the one that will get you the results in the long term right at the end of the day.

Laura  

We come from a place where we understand, we've taken that journey. I've certainly every single fitness mistake, you know, I've done Hell Week, I've smashed yourself F45 you know, every day, because I felt like more was better for me.

Will:  

The more I hurt, the harder I've worked,, and the better, more calories I've burned.

Laura  

You know, you're in this state of stress constantly, you know, stress myself out and I go to work, stress myself wouldn't recover. Wonder why I felt like shit the next day. And that was sort of the self perpetuating cycle. And then when I sort of realized, Oh, actually, there's some other things I can do, I can manage this intensity and actually, my body will be less inflamed, I'll get I'll get much more results quicker. But I think yeah, there's this whole sort of mis-education and the commercialization around fast results, and entertaining fitness, you know, I more than anyone, I cannot wait. The next thing wants to do is go to soulcycle. Because I want to get on a bike and I want to listen to Beyonce in the dark with somene saying, you've got this girl.

Will:  

I believe in you, let's do our three minutes of emotion.

Laura  

I love, I love how fitness can deliver a sense of escape. But what we can't do is rely on it as our you know, our coping, or our therapy. You know, I've definitely described fitness as being a therapy for me, but I have to manage it in a way that is sustainable. And that and that's where I think the gaps that is in the industry, how do you make a really successful model around the message of sustainable and I do think we're getting there...

Will:  

Yeah, we are getting there. But if you talk to anybody like, like, it's like I've been in fitness for 20 years, and I've kind of been at a good level of fitness, I'm now getting to the age where I can say that I'm proud of the fact that I'm still fit, because I'm getting quite old. And I'm still pretty fit for my age. But that revolves around doing strength training that revolves around the same five simple lifts, I don't squat, I don't deadlift, but you know, benchpress, shoulder press, I lunge, single leg sort of stuff. But I do. Like I vary it up, I vary the training protocols like I do, you know, higher reps, low reps, change the weights, but it's the same movement battens because I know the movement that work, I do a couple of days cardio, and then I walk every day. And it's taken, it's taken me 20 years to figure out that it's just doing the same things consistently with that real consistency, like all the time, that's what delivers the results. The same way that if you talk to anyone who has kept themselves in really good shape, diet wise, the one thing that you almost always hear is they just have a diet where they eat kind of the same stuff all the time, because they know what's healthy. And if you're constantly trying to vary it up, like novelty is really important. And I have a strong believer in you know, buying a classpass membership and going to, you know, doing your classic kind of workout Monday to Friday, and then going to a soulcycle on a Saturday, or maybe your reformer Pilates or maybe a hip hop class or whatever, have that have that variance because you need it. But yeah, it's just just consistency, it's not going to be like come in stay seven days, even 21 days, right, like 21 days is habit forming, theoretically, but it's the fact that you formed the habit that you continue. It's not the 21 days.

Laura  

Exactly. And that's the that is that, you know, I totally put, you know, the classpass model of being having the ability to go to a different gym every single time. But, you know, random random training, random results, if you're okay with that, all right. I do think that, you know, if you if you actually want to get some sort of, I'm sure everyone's everyone's describes they've got some specific goals, you're just not going to get there. And from a commercial perspective, if we continue to encourage that, gyms are going to find it hard, because you don't know who you're going to have at your gym from one week to the next. So you know, that's why, from my perspective, having a class model and the 21 Day Challenge, etc, that we have is a great entry point. That actually, for us to have a sustainable business, we want to be able to train people, you know, for two or three years doing the same thing.

Will:  

For what you guys do and what like, I certainly encourage any of the listeners of this podcast because they're all instructors or trainers, is that the Foundry creates community, right? Like you like that, that messaging you said before, which was, you know, come in and you know, come here all the time, and you do the same, the same, the same lifts, we're gonna vary the protocols, but you know, you've been doing the same thing week in week out, and you're gonna like it, sometimes you're not gonna like it other times, and sometimes you can be a bit tired. But the one bit that you missed off, which is the bit that makes it is that you're going to have a community that you care about, and that cares about you. And that's really where the kicker is. Right? And I think that's another that's and that's something that the likes of F45 and Barry's actually do really well right. Like I don't love their marketing sometimes, but they create this stickiness and community where you're going because you want to be there the instructor knows you the other people in the class see you there and that's that's what gets people in.

Laura  

Yeah, and I think also like, it's almost like in London, it's become your identity. It's like where do you try to train? 

Will:  

What university to go, what school do you go to, where do you train?

Laura  

I feel like I know quite I can know quite a lot about someone if they say, I'm in Barry's Hell Week. I'm like, okay, wow, hardcore. You know, I go to CrossFit. Okay, cool. You train 5 times a week. And, you know, so there's, there's sort of an identity attached to it. But But yeah, like we said earlier, from even a personal brand perspective, you know, I'm not for everyone, everyone's not for me, it'll be the same for the gym, we don't need, you know, 10 million, whatever the population is, and to our gym, we just need 300 too love it and look forward to seeing each other.

Will:  

Absolutely. So now that the industry is sort of coming back from a pretty horrific year in terms of inability to work and closures, like what what do you how do you see the future? But what are you feeling? Are you feeling bright and happy? Are you a little bit concerned? What's your kind of state of play? This is a question that I think will be asking a lot of our guests as we as we crawl back into what will be the new normal? 

Laura  

Yeah, I think overarching, I'm hugely optimistic. I'm excited to get back I think, like we said, you know, during the time of the pandemic, more and more people are recognizing and realizing the importance of health. People took up whatever running or you know, like, like you did well burpying on your...

Will:  

You know what, I'm actually back to that, because I've had to come back to Paris and lockdown. And so I'm back to kitchen burpees. Love it. It's my fave.

Laura  

No, I've got nothing against burpees actually, if you can't do a good burpee, what can you do? Oh, yeah, I'm overarching, I'm hugely optimistic. I think it's a necessary sector that needs to do well, I'm disappointed in how it's been managed, I guess in terms of our openings, the level of support we got, you know, the pubs are more important than us apparently, but okay. But I'm, I run a business. So it would be it would be wrong of me to not be hugely concerned because financially people are, you know, our members have been here, people have lost their jobs, people have had to relocate out of London, here at the foundry, you know, myself, Ben, David and the team, with your, with your support, actually Will, I need to thank you for your expertise there, we've pivoted our business to have an online arm of our business. And if you'd asked us, you know, a couple of years ago, can you ever imagine that you would be delivering your personal training...

Will:  

 Right, heavy lifting, personal training via video.

Laura  

Literally, like this morning, because we still got some members that even though you know, they're able to come to the gym, actually, they could never, we picked up new members. outside of London, they've got, you know, squat rack at home. So I'm benching with with someone here. There's someone here that's got one kettlebell, there's someone here that it's got no weights at all. So I'm managing the via the power of zoom to still train people still using our principles, it still really feel it's very much our product, but it's online. And I think, you know, Will, you talk about a phygital, you know, this hybrid model of a physical to, you know, to online presence. For us, 80% of our member base have returned to the gym. And that's pretty, that's pretty high. And that's what we'd expect. But we've also got members that have can come to the gym, but they actually just wow, I really like the convenience of doing this at home. So I think we're, we're a bit of both right?

Will:  

Like, there are times when life gets in the way and they still want to work out now they can do it at home. But they, but yeah, I think the one thing that we can all agree on... And this is speaking as someone who's obviously a massive digital fitness proponent, like I believe very strongly and have for a long time, nothing beats the in person experience. And if and but the reality is that life gets in the way, children get in the way, jobs get in the way, distance gets in the way, and like having the ability to do that both those things is just really valuable. 

Laura  

Yeah, totally. I guess that the challenge is the the competition, the cost, the you know, the the marketplace of online offerings, you know, I'm, I'm a coach on Fit, which is a fantastic app, but I absolutely love it. And I think it's a very different market. I don't really think the overlap between you know, what we do in gym is that the price point is just poles apart, right? Yeah. And 115 pounds a month is amazing, because you get to feel like you're in the room with us...

Will:  

600+ workouts, really good trainers, like excitinng productions....

Laura  

...Exactly, you know, and verses are 350 pounds a month, you know, small group PT and classes membership. It's, it's quite, it's quite poles apart. So I think commercially, we've got a job to try and prove our value in quite a heavily disrupted marketplace online and in person, and I think, you know, like the things that we do, you know, we sort of made reference that the 21 Day Challenge is by offering us a slightly reduced entry barrier to entry from a cost perspective, and to enable people to spend three weeks training with us so they know they experience the difference, not just us telling them. You know, I remember at the start of the pandemic, lots of PTs are sort of saying I'll go, you know, I can't compete with, you know, Joe Wicks is doing free, always Instagram lives, you know, everyone was on Instagram Live in fatigue. And I kept reminding myself and other people that the one thing that you as a personal trainer or owner virgin have is that personal connection, right? You're never going to meet Joe Wicks, you know, but I as your trainer, I know that day that you felt sad, and we talked about it, I know that injury that you've got that I need to adapt for. So we've got to realize the value that we have as individuals in that smaller community to try and maximise on that as we as we open up.

Will:  

Yeah, right. So that connection and the end of the day, because this is something we've talked about on the podcast before as well, because because we're speaking to instructors, and instructors are very aware that they're competing with fit, and they're competing with Apple fitness, and they're competing with peloton, and the price points of those are just so low, and the quality of instruction is high. And you know, there's going to be instructors on those digital platforms that move better than you, coach better than you, that may be no more than you about exercise. But the thing they can't do, is they can't go, hey, Laura, I know you're a bit down this morning. Like how are you feeling now? Like, let's get to the end of this workout. And I'm sure you'll feel better. Like that can't happen through a mass market, huge volume platform. But that's something that a trainer or an individual that has a personal relationship can actually do. Yeah, absolutely. And and that's the value. And again, going back to it you know, the person that is loves fate or peloton they might dish might not be your audience. Or they might still be your audience too. And just do that as well. I have digital memberships like everything. But that doesn't stop me coming to the foundry whenever I get the opportunity.

Laura  

Of course, of course I Yeah, I agree with you there. That personal relationship is it's just that trust, isn't it? It's I trust you with my one hour I've got today, my head to you know, develop my health and fitness. I'm going to give it to you.

Will:  

Perfect. Well, that almost brings us to the end of of our chat. I know that I've kept you I've kept you for a full hour. And I'm grateful for that. I guess the the one question that I'm going to finish with is what is next for you personally, so not so much about the industry, but kind of you as Laura, and I know earlier you said you're not an influencer, you're a PT, but what's what's like the next sort of big, hairy, audacious goal that you've got, if you want to share it?

Laura  

Yeah, well, yeah, it's, it's a great question. And sometimes I don't ask myself this enough. I think I'm, I'm going through a period of time now where after being in a bit of survival mode, I'm sort of now looking at the landscape and going where do I, where do I fit and, you know, like I said, I don't want to be described as an influencer, or, you know, I don't have millions of followers, I think I've got 45,000 I don't need to know, 45,000 people, for me to have a career. So I guess that that has come as a result of sort of the external things that I do. And I do have a bit of social media fatigue, I'll be honest with you, we've all been you know, this time, we've been staring at our screens, you've been interacting via zoom, whatever it is...

Will:  

Haven't been able to go and see people, so you've been interacting through the screen, which it does is this weird feedback, right? And that you feel less lonely for a second, but it ultimately makes you more lonely in the long run. I had this through the halfway through point of last year, I was like living in Paris away from, away from my friends away from my family, and I would just scroll through Instagram to try and feel connected to people. But that's not connection.

Laura  

...And I also think Instagram, you know, it's an amazing way to communicate over the past year or so, Instagram has been, you know, a tool to communicate quite serious, you know, global issue is like, you know, BLM and you know, it's other things that you know, Instagram can sometimes be is very light hearted, hey, and other times it's really deep. Yeah. And there is no context. There's no room for nuance we are going through this period of time of like cancel culture, somebody tweeted this 20 years ago, cancel them. Yeah. So I do find that more than ever. I mean, I'm not I am not a controversial person on Instagram, I don't think but I kind of go through the stage where I don't even want to be on it. And then I have to go back and remind myself well, no, hang on a minute. You were originally on this to share your training your experience to try and inspire others to you know, try and wave that little flag for others, so it's hard to block out that noise. I've written a book, I've got a podcast, I'll be doing some in person events this year, which I'm really, really excited about. And I think you know, what's what's next for me? Getting a balance back trying to maintain some personal boundaries. You know, it's wonderful all the hundreds of DMS I get, but it's not manageable for me. If people will see that I'm on Instagram, and I'm posting, absolutely, I'm sharing life with people, but also behind that I have a full time job. I've got three gyms, I've got two business partners, I've got a board, I've got a coaching team, my family, my friends, you know, my partner so that there's a lot for me to try to try and manage. And I need to sort of just give myself you know, stand back a little bit from it. I would love one day to write another book. I still feel like I've got more that I want to say having never thought I'd write a book.

Will:  

Please tell me it's gonna be on having great hair.

Laura  

Yes, it's got to be. Honestly, I was like L'Oreal, I was with you five years. And but yeah, something to do with that. And I think you know, you know how passionate I am, you know about the business at the foundry, it's more than a business for us. Yeah. And it's like, it's changing people's lives. And I think as we come out of this, hopefully, once we're past survival mode, and we can get back on our feet, you know, we're expanding our coaching team, we're getting new members in, that really is the dream to you know, new sites, you know, new locations, you know, we're developing still our digital platform, we're still learning as we go there. So I think success professionally for me is the foundry rocking and rolling where it was and on the route of expansion. And personally, I want to make sure like I said that I'm looking after myself, because I think probably a lot of people listening will you know, the, the anti social hours and people think we're always in the gym, and we must be really fit. Actually, it's the last thing on my priority list. train myself. So sometimes you're very successful PT that is very unfit. Yeah. So yeah, just try it. Just try to manage trying to manage that. But I guess once I'm over this period of social media fatigue, I think I will, you know, get back on that and start to try and repeat that message and collaborate with people that I love. And I've not yet, I feel the most anti-social social media person, I've not been to one event that was like, come to this event. No...I'm busy. I just, have I just haven't had the emotional capacity for it.

Will:  

I think that that is a completely reasonable place to be in at this point in time. Unless this the fingers crossed that you, that you can get away for the summer. Let's hope that green list expands maybe 

Laura  

We literally go to Brunei and the south of Sandwich. 

Will:  

You haven't booked a trip to Portugal? 

Laura  

I haven't, no, I haven't. To be honest. I've just I know what's going on. 

Will:  

For those listening from other countries portugal is on the UK's green list, which means that there's no quarantine, this is why this conversation has come up.

Laura  

I haven't. I'm waiting for I'm waiting for a Beither to be a go for me and sure that the team are up and running at the gym and and then I'll think about taking some time out because I feel a bit pale at the moment. And yeah.

Will:  

Well, thank you very much, Laura, I really appreciate you take time and talk. Good luck with everything as we get back into the swing of things. And I'm sure that I will, I will see you again. And hopefully we'll chat in on the podcast at some point and hear about all the new things you're doing. 

Laura  

Yeah, thank you so much, Will, I really appreciate your time. 

Laura  

Cheers. So that was my chat with Laura. What I love about Laura, other than her great hair and amazing Nike collection is how real she is. Often you hear two extreme perspectives when it comes to body image. One is that you must look a certain way. And the other is the body positivity movement. But in reality, most of us sit somewhere in the middle. And that's exactly the type of community that Laura has fostered around the idea of strength and being able to do something with your body. I've been in the industry for a long time. And I'm getting to a point in my career where body image doesn't mean for me the same things as it used to. And I'm pretty happy about the way that I look and focused on the things that my body can do. But the reality is that I also have days when I feel down about certain aspects of how I look. And there's nothing wrong with that. Because as Laura said, we're only human and it's human nature. There's also nothing wrong with having goals that are focused on aesthetics, or helping your members with their aesthetic based goals. This is still important. Looking good and feeling good often go together. And we shouldn't lose focus on that. And the fact that it really is something that motivates people to fitness. But the key differentiator that Laura focuses on, and it's also something that we focus on at shift is Fitness for Life. You guys know by now listening to this podcast how strongly I believe that our main goal is fitness community leaders should be to build a community where everybody feels welcome and included and where the focus is on Fitness for Life. I've loved watching what Laura's done for her community over the time I've known her and how she's grown. Her profile was such a positive message. I'm also super happy to see you guys, our listeners. Keep tagging me in all your posts because the changes you are making are meaningful. Let's keep this movement going. Thank you for listening. If you're enjoying the show, don't forget to subscribe for all the latest episodes wherever you get your podcasts. And while you're there, please drop us a review. You can also get in touch with me at will@sh1ftfitness.com. I'm Will Brereton and you've been listening to Group Fitness Real Talk.