Sue Wilkie:

There is an opportunity here for Group X, massively to be part of the solution of the problem that of a global pandemic. Okay, we know now with a pandemic, that it hits certain ethnicities, certain segments or groups. And you know, obesity is a big part of this. Within the UK, I know the government are looking at what that solution is with Public Health England, and they recognize that physical activity as part of that. So if, if we can be singing, that, you know, this is what we can provide, this is a solution we can provide for the world to get fit, I think there's a massive opportunity out there if we were to look at the positives.

Will:  

Hey, I'm Will Brereton, founder of Shift Fitness and this is Group Fitness Real Talk, a show about how to survive and even thrive in group fitness in 2021 and beyond. Welcome back to the new season of Group Fitness Real Talk. We took a break for a few weeks to focus on advanced instructing course that myself and the team at Shift put together, we had an awesome group and it was so much fun helping him instructors take their teaching skills to the next level. But I do have to say that I miss the podcast and I'm really excited to get back to it. This season is filled with a lot of hope and excitement for the future. Now we know there's still a long way to go and our collective journey to recovering from the pandemic. But I'm feeling really optimistic about the future. And I hope that you are too. In this first episode, we're actually going to get the perspective of an area of the industry that we haven't covered on the podcast before. And that's regulatory bodies and national governing bodies for group fitness. Today, I'm interviewing Sue Wilkie from EMD UK. Now this is the national governing body for group exercise in the UK, Su played a crucial role for instructors during the pandemic acting as their voice to government. And her team at EMD worked incredibly hard not only to support instructors, but also on to ensure that group fitness as an industry was heard. Now, I know that a lot of you guys listening to this podcast or not UK based, and the reality is that you may or may not have had a similar body to EMD doing the work for you in your territory, your country or your jurisdiction. I think this is something that we as an industry really need to think about are these bodies serving us. As you hear, I'm pretty proud of the work that EMD did in the UK. But I think that some regulatory bodies around the world could be doing a lot more to support our instructors, our industry, and Group Fitness as a whole. Now, onto the chat with Sue. 

Will:  

Okay, so welcome, Sue to the podcast. How are you? I'm very good. Thank you for having me on the podcast, Will. Great to meet you. You have a meeting to organize this for a while, and we finally made it happen. Yeah, so it's been a bit of a busy year, has been a busy year. So on that note, why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself? And also why this year has been so busy for you?

Sue Wilkie  

Yeah, I am. I am the head of instructor development for EMD UK. So that's we are actually the national governing body of group exercise in the UK. And I started beginning basically I took the job in February last year. As what would have been a six month contract, I've actually left the industry. I've been an industry for 30 years. So I've been a presenter, I've run organizations, I've run training companies, I've been a PT, I've worked all the way through to, but I left the industry to go work in care to be fair. So February last year, I got asked to go would I take a six month contract to help them out with their academy. I started and four weeks later, we went into lockdown. And since that day, I don't think I've done my job role as it was originally intended. 

Will:  

So what was the original intention of your role with the EMD?

Sue Wilkie  

It was a six month contract to help look at their academy and see where they were doing things right where they're doing things wrong, make it more profitable or decide where the future would lay with it. That was purely my job spec and to help with any projects that we do on the sideline, but it was six months and that was it. And then lockdown came. And yeah, well as a NGB group exercise. It was, you know, everything was shut down in the UK. So it was how do we deal with this where we heard how do we get heard. And it was when those first times I've had the opportunity to shout stand on the table and shout and bang at the doors that needed to be done. So I've basically been fighting for Group X the whole way through lockdown in the UK.

Will:  

Excellent. And we're gonna talk a lot more about that later. But let's just roll it back a little bit. So for listeners that aren't that aren't as well versed in sort of public regulatory bodies and all that sort of stuff. Why don't you explain what an NGB is and also how EMD slots into the regulatory framework of the UK sporting and fitness industry.

Sue Wilkie  

Yeah. So, an NGB going right back is the national governing body. So usually they're recognized more for sport in the UK. So you have your national governing body for athletics, athletics, or...

Will:  

Let's set the rules for who qualifies for the Olympics and that sort of thing..

Sue Wilkie  

Absolutely. And most of them are funded as we are by or part funded by Sport England. So they're the main two, they get lottery funding. So the lottery funding comes to Sport England, and they disseminate it through different organizations. So we, we were made up of three founders originally, which were Medau, FL exercise and KFA. So there were still warts behind it. And then we ended up being an NGB. So where we sit in the UK is there's a number of organizations that deal with fitness. We have UK active who look after, like their membership based, it's for the bigger picture like the leisure operators, the gym owners, that sort of stuff. Then you have SINSPA, who are the regulatory body for more accreditation of qualifications, they work with Active IQ off qual set industry standards. And, and then above that, obviously a Sport England as well, so, and really, for me prior to lock down, and I didn't know much because I literally walked into it, they all worked quite independently, it was very much they did that we did this and and probably we were the least known out of all of them, nobody really knew who EMD UK were. But we were brought together in a workforce group and very early on in lockdown. And we what was really good, it was a great partnership was brought together.

Will:  

And EMD just for anyone that doesn't know is exercise music dance, right? Yes. So you represent tell us a bit about your sort of constituent groups. So who were you set up to represent in terms of the industry.

Sue Wilkie  

So it is as a generic, it would be group exercise or dance fitness. So if you think of any category of dance fitness, group exercise, whether that be Zumba, clubasize, boxercise, anybody with aspirations to have a brand on their own, that's what we do to support. So it's quite a large area, you know, and we haven't got it. We don't cover it all at the moment, but we're trying to do the best we can to look after all those sections, you know, as a governing body, we have our own Academy. So we have our own very unique qualification, which is DFQ. And it's the only one in the UK, I think, probably worldwide, which is a dance fitness qualification. Because a lot of people don't have the group x. It's the kind of dance background so how do we get them to get the knowledge with the anatomy and physiology side of things and put it together dance related rather than just the generic group training to music qualification as well?

Will:  

And how long is EMD been around for?

Sue Wilkie  

Oh, you're gonna get me there, I need to check on that one, I'll get back to you on that. It's been around, it's been around quite a considerable amount of years because it was made up of these three individual bodies. So it was called EMDP to start off with. And then it came into being EMD UK in the latter years.

Will:  

And one of the reasons that I think EMD has come to a lot more prominence within the UK and apologies to any of our listeners outside the UK, this is going to be a discussion about EMD. But I think it's quite useful because every country has governing bodies fulfilling this, and some have done fantastic jobs at keeping their instructors abreast of changes and updates. And some have done terrible jobs. And we will we'll talk a little bit of that, I'll talk about my experience in France, where it seems like we're the only country which is coming out of lockdown where gyms aren't open, but indoor cinemas are which is crazy to me. So let's let's pause that conversation for a while. So EMD have been basically representing the interests of instructors and group fitness throughout the pandemic. Like that's a fair thing to say right? Yeah, yeah, and full disclosure, Sh1ft fitness, which is obviously my brand is endorsed through EMD so like I think from a very start when we sort of kicked off in 2016, 2017. So we've been with EMD right through, and I am also personally as an instructor insured and have my EMD membership. So I get all of the emails and I've been super impressed the whole way through by the amount of information that we've been given at every turn. Obviously, all governments UK Government included has changed their tune and change dates and gone in and out of lockdowns and had red light systems and tier systems and like local systems, yes stages and local systems. And one of the things I've been really impressed by is the fact that EMD has at every point done its very best to send out to instructors a distillation and some summary of exactly what the roles are and how that impacts people on a real life basis. So tell me a little bit about how that came about. So you had just joined EMD, lockdown started happening. How did EMD come to be the voice of instructors in the UK? Like, how did that how did that situation happen? I know, I know that it wasn't an immediate thing, right. Like it took a little bit of lobbying from the industry.

Sue Wilkie  

It did. It definitely did, I think primarily because of finding our voice through the workforce group that were put together. So was put together on every Wednesday that the the big sector partners got together. So I was with sport England, Uk Active, there's UK coaching on that group, we all came together...

Will:  

Right, so this is for the sports and fitness industry. So this is like, grassroots sport, which in England and the UK is what they refer to as you know, like children's or right through to competitive sport. So the leisure industry, so swimming pools, ski fields if they had ski fields, for example...

Sue Wilkie  

Playing fields, or you know, I mean, sporting and covers all of it. It was just the the bodies beneath that coming together to try and at first go, what do we need to address? I don't think that anybody would even if it was government, they knew what they were doing start off with it was a learning curve for everybody. So yeah, so what was great about the group was that we could start having that conversation. And, you know, I must admit, I was a newbie, so I kind of I like the sound of my own voice. But I was very quiet to start off with and then started to find the point of going here, but no one's saying anything for Group X. So you know, has anyone when you've asked them, DCMS...DCMS, for people who don't know, is the Department of Digital Culture, Media and Sports, it's a part of the government. And it's the one that we fall under? Yep. So no one was really asking on our behalf, whether what the questions were or whether the wording was correct. So the first time I got to what we got to confronts government was when the first set of guidelines came out. And that was my job to sit there and read through all this guidance and see and see. Okay, so in relation to group x, what does that mean, in relation to group x? What does that mean? And it nothing related to group x, you know...

Will:  

Right, it was just not it was not thought of as a thing, right?

Sue Wilkie  

No, no. So we couldn't really do much they were quite locked down. And we were still in lockdown. So there was no leeway. But that's where I think one of the literature you got, as I put out the group x support pack, which was kind of me knowing what was could be coming and been able to provide instructors with something that was tangible, but not in government terms, in our terms, in everything I do is trying to put it into a layman's terms. How would I understand this rather than like reading a legal document?

Will:  

And in that working group, like what were the loud voices in the room was it was it's like, who were their kind of leading voices that the government was listening to when it came to lock down rules at the start?

Sue Wilkie  

To start it was Sport England, because they are that that's where their lottery funding goes. So the voice goes directly straight to sport, England, and then it gets disseminated down really. So that was not a challenge, because at least we have that avenue that we knew we could go there. And we were having those conversations. But when you look at on our back the government with this, we're actually the department I deal with, because I think they've been amazing for me, digital culture, media, sports, how big a department that is to try and get it right for everybody. And you've got to recognize that most sports in the UK haven't even started to come back yet. Whereas group x have, so you have to look at it as a big picture. They've done a good job to help. Listen. But when we thought when I found that we weren't getting listened to I just I just googled who was the head of Department of Culture, Media and Sports, and just sent him an email.

Will:  

Really.

Sue Wilkie  

I was looking at the top person, looks like that's the top person second one, I'm going to email them direct and and just put in a really nice email just going look at the ones that introduce myself. And I know I should be going through Sport England. But we have been the biggest growth activity and lockdown one because instructors pivoted to being online, right? So I had that data of like, this is engaged this amount of the population, we would really help to have a voice at the table to get some of the guidelines, put in our terminology or at the table to be thought about.

Will:  

Right. And this is one of the big turning points, right because I think that lockdowns came into place. And then like everybody was thinking more about the health impacts and not really thinking about sort of, obviously people knew that they'd be messing economic impacts of closing down businesses, but just the the both physical health and mental health challenges of not being able to work out anymore, which was obviously as we've talked about at length in this podcast. The industry knows very well was something that was then taken on by fitness instructors in terms of keeping people feeling connected outside of just the zoom meetings and calls and people moving even though they couldn't leave the house.

Sue Wilkie  

Yeah, I mean, group exercise instructors, not just in the UK across the world. I mean, big hands up to you guys, you did an incredible job of, you know, those who wanted to they pivoted. They were immediately like, I meant to be running a class next week, how do I do it? Let's fumble our way through technology. And what is zoom? How do I use this portal? What we all have this, the mics not working? I mean, that was what a job all the instructors across the world have done? It has to be a massive shout out to them, because how they've managed to work. I mean, there is some that haven't, you know, and that's just because of lack of technology. But yeah, I think the work that went behind, I was seeing inspired me to represent them even more.

Will:  

And so you talked about some data stating that group exercise became the single biggest kind of sporting activity of people within the country or within UK 

Sue Wilkie  

Behind walking, the only one that beat it was outdoor walking. 

Will:  

Do you remember off the top of your head? Do you remember what those figures were?

Sue Wilkie  

Gosh, no, I don't I didn't come to the table with those today. But it was the second like, you know, compared to everything else, I just noticed second largest growth.

Will:  

And plus, it covered two other bits. Right? It was digital, and it was sports. So that was two of the four. 

Sue Wilkie  

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. 

Will:  

So tell me like, what were the biggest challenges that you faced when trying to advocate for group fitness and group fitness instructors with the government. So when and just to give people more context, just in case we're jumping ahead. So essentially, the lockdown rules were in place, and the government would set out policy, which was sort of top level, you're allowed to this, you're not allowed to do this. And then that would filter down and it would have to come into like more detailed rules right about. So I mean, we know now that we expect the social distancing and indoor Group Fitness  class should be and I don't know, on top of my head, but you know, two meters per person, right, so two square meters per person. But but that comes from a first thing of social distancing must be enforced. That's the thing. And then that has been filtered down for every industry. So the restaurant industry has to figure out what social distancing means. In the restaurant context, the fitness industry has to figure it out in the fitness context. And that was part of the role that you and your working group would play right to understand, like taking the broad policy at the top of where and lockdown, social distancing, this can open that can open and distilling that down into Okay, in detail, what exactly is an essential business? What exactly is social distancing? What were what were the biggest challenges for you in the working group?

Sue Wilkie  

Well, no one had an idea that had a clue on what this was. So it was called our return to play guidance was going to look like, you know, we were told by a government that the biggest issues we had, we were told by government, we have to provide a return to play document, which covered a number of areas. So is the ventilation per square foot, you know, so in the UK, it was all based on, it's an airborne issue, you know, with COVID. So therefore, it had to be 100%, pure, you know, where do we find these facts and figures from So actually, that research was done on a bigger scale UK active had part of that research, because we don't have the ability, but there was information coming in, but it was how we correlated it together. What did it mean? Because every sport and every sector is different. We would just given like five key areas and ventilation was the most social distancing was next. And it was trying to work out okay, based on 100 square foot, how does that mean for social distancing within a class? How do we how are we going to calculate that? What does it mean by free flow? It was very vague, we just got free flowing air ventilation, you know, that was basic it came to us. And we had to then put it into a document that would be approved by DCMS to make sure we satisfy their criteria. And that was that I think was possibly my my hardest job, really. And there was parts of that were UK active had some guidelines, are we you know, talking together going, what you're saying is we need to make sure it's ours. And same with sim spa across the board. It just had to be, look, you can't be issuing we can't be and they issuing guidelines that are different. So what we have to do is almost agree to be the pros and all our own workforce. So I would provide all the information for group x, they would do it for leisure operators, they would do it for standards, and therefore we always communicating together to make sure that we're not treading on each other's toes.

Will:  

And did you find, were there any conflicts in that process? Because I know that in the UK for various reasons, we had a situation where and I'd love to get your view on this actually, where gym floors are open and there's this there's this funny situation, which is resolved now because the UK is now back open for indoor classes. But we had this funny situation where there could be a large cycling studio that normally had 80 bikes have 40 bikes in it. And they couldn't have an instructor at the class teaching 40 people, but they could have 40 people all doing a virtual workout at the same time on the same timetable, how like...

Sue Wilkie  

Theoretically, I'll say that they weren't meant to be doing it. That was it. So they were breaking guidelines for doing that that was not approved at any stage for group exercise to be able to do virtual, it was more of whether you're allowed in that in the basic rules were, you're outdoors, or you're indoors, you follow the guidelines for the outdoors or the indoors. Didn't matter whether it was instructor led or not. It was just you have to stick by the guidelines. And that's been the hardest part we write them. Whether people stick to it has been a very hard job to work upon. Because we've been I have DCMS coming to me going look. So you're saying all the right things, you've got one of the best guidelines out there, you know, the returns place awesome. And you've written it in the right terms, but have a look at social media and they send me shots of people who had done a class and then had a nice group photo.

Will:  

Okay, so you're actually getting the situation where the government or like the governmental body was coming to you and going, look, we saw your press release, the guidelines are great, but we're looking at social media, and these people clearly aren't following the rules.

Sue Wilkie  

Absolutely. And that's that that was a frustrating thing, because you're thinking for those who are abiding by it. There's also some who weren't using an element of common sense to think two meters means two meters. And I was quite shocked that, you know, Trading Standards and that level shutting people down because they were and the way they were getting the tip offs was actually their own posts on social media.

Sue Wilkie  

So you're going, well, yeah, I've written we've written the guidelines, and we're trying to enforce them and people, but you can't control. And I think that's the difference is you've got PTs who might be under a different, might be following somebody else's guidelines. They are meant to be unified, but there was a, how much control do we have over them? Right?

Will:  

Yeah.

Will:  

I mean, I for one, I'm just really happy that we're coming out of all these restrictions, because one of the things I disliked the most was the level of kind of infighting and delving in and grasping up the winds on and I completely understand why because some people were following the rules to the leader, and some people were bending the rules just slightly. And then I know like, when I was in London, I knew that there are a lot of a lot of studios, that were definitely still just running classes and others that way. But from from another perspective, as a small business owner, I understand like you don't want to go under. Therefore, if you can, if you can, like ride the rules to the absolute sort of end of them without like getting cool, then I can understand why as a business owner, you're driven to do that. So fortunately, it's nice that we can find ourselves coming out of that so that we can just all sort of rejoin as an industry and be proud of what we achieved, like we said on top of the call, right, like about keeping people active and keeping people busy and not worried so much about whether or not you're taking the rules a little bit more seriously than another person.

Sue Wilkie  

Exactly. And that element of common sense required. Here's the rules. We put it into layman's terms. And we just had this recently well, as well, because before it was a three meter distancing rule, and we agreement was that look, we distancing has to be in but we're not saying three meters from the government. So let's go back to and people going, but I don't feel comfortable. Fair enough. All we're doing is advising you that if you wanted to reduce it, it's two meters, your common sense or your gut feeling says for my consumers, I want to keep it three. Crack on and keep it at three. But it was again, you see, you know, these law, law abiding citizens, it's like you're doing a great job. But sometimes you get in your own way of getting a business, but within what you feel is right for you, and don't follow the crowd.

Will:  

Yeah, absolutely. So I wanted to talk about some of the kind of wins that I saw of EMD and the working group as a whole having in terms of in terms of like the guidance, guidance and constant sort of updates that instructors got. So we talked about further distillation of the rules and how you were feeding that back to instructors in a way that was understandable and able to be put into practice in real layman's terms. One of the other things I wanted to talk about was the limited online music license that that was sorted out. So obviously when everyone went online, people didn't have a good understanding of music licensing rules and so on. People ran into problems very quickly with takedown notices, and being muted on Facebook and all this sort of stuff. So tell me a little bit about the process of, of what you guys did to allow original music to be used in online fitness in the UK. And this is something that's going to make some of the people from other countries either wonder why it's so strict or really annoyed that they couldn't get there as well, because I know, music licensing will state at the outset is different in every jurisdiction.

Sue Wilkie  

And it is as well, because the law, the law, the normal license, limited online music license, which was ended up put up was actually I won't take any credit for this, I'll take it, I'll pass this my baton to Brett Pearson, who was one of our marketing team. He recognized this because he was seeing on comments, people saying, I've been taken down and took it upon himself to go direct to them...

Will:  

Direct to the companies?

Sue Wilkie  

...to the music companies and challenge them about, you know, these people are trying to get people active, you know, because we had the PRS license before, but it didn't cover you for when you went online. And, and he he champion that. I mean, he just kept on bashing at doors and championed it. And he always goes to the thing of looking at a track of music that's played by somebody. And actually, it has five different artists on it. They've all got five different agents who require some form of commission. And so he, you know, and I will say this, people are Australia, they didn't have an issue, Australia, switched it around straight away and made it free for people, or made it accessible for people. So it is region by region. So you're all going to be very different how this has affected you. In the UK, they shut us all down. It wasn't going to happen. It was like they wanted to pay and it would have been 1000s of pounds for you to get a license. For. Yeah, you know, I think the initial process went through, do we try to do it as a we take the license as end on your behalf? And how does that work? And they rejected that. And purely, I mean, he's not here to say it, but he just literally battered on doors and eventually got the normal license approved for it to come through us. And the only prerequisite was people had to have and that was from their point of view, there had to be a minimal level requirement of a level two qualification.

Will:  

Right, which is the base level qualification for the UK in group fitness...

Sue Wilkie  

Exactly, so our group training to music is a level two, the DFQ is a level two, because there is some, some a group exercise that maybe doesn't ask for a prerequisite. So that would have been affected. They couldn't have got that license. But it was purely they needed to have a base standard. So they knew who was accessing this license for them. Right. So and there we go. So we got it through till Christmas. And now it's been extended through till June, which I know is closing in on us very quickly. So I know, I know that that we're still working on the next stage, because we understand, you know, there's going to be many an instructor now who's decided to keep online and will do as a backup, which I think is a very savvy idea to keep a mainstream level of income generation and service those people who can't get to classes or who may not be consumer confidence to return face to face. So yeah, so we're battling for the next extension and what that's gonna look like now.

Will:  

Interesting. So that kind of brings us to what I wanted to talk about next was like, how do you see the state of group fitness? Let's let's kind of go wide and then narrow. So from a global perspective, speaking as someone who is an advocate for instructors, and was working as a representative of group fitness instructors within the industry, like how do you feel about the position that we find ourselves in? Like, are you feeling hopeful? Are you feeling worried? Are you...

Sue Wilkie  

I think, okay, so I can't speak for other countries, I do have a number of friends who present across the world. So I know a little bit. There is an opportunity here for group x, massively to be part of the solution of the problem that of the global pandemic, okay, what we know now with a pandemic, that it hits certain ethnicities, and certain segments or groups. And you know, obesity is a big part of this. within the UK, I know the government are looking at what that solution is with Public Health England, and they recognize that physical activity as part of that, right. So if if we can be singing that, you know, this is what we can provide, this is a solution we can provide for the world to get fit. I think there's a massive opportunity out there. If we were to look at the positives. The negatives is the doors that are shut in front of us post pandemic, as in leisure operators choosing not to currently reopen with some of the group exercise. And I think that'll be across the world. I've got where I currently go, and all their classes are virtual and I might you'll missing out on a trick. UK active reported already internally that it's the biggest puller of people in his group excise into your leisure operators at the moment.

Will:  

Yeah, and anecdotally, I'm hearing that for my occasions within within the industry, internationally. So in the US, the UK and then obviously Australia, New Zealand is a slightly different kettle of fish, but they're almost back to 100% capacity in the classes. Yeah. And certainly in the UK in the US, those that are back open have huge demand for the classes, especially because the classes tend to be socially distance now. So the capacity is a little bit lower, and people are people are booking well in advance and really making use of something that hadn't been able to use for a long time.

Sue Wilkie  

Yeah, yeah. And one of my biggest concerns as well, and it was we heard this about six months ago is, you know, what is that workforce gonna look like in leisure operators, you know, that their bottom lines been here, it goes back to the old the old age question of value and worth, as an instructor. You know, we know instructors, wages in the UK haven't gone up for the last 20 years. But we're the first people that they want to cut to use their internal workforce. So they think they can train up a receptionist to teach group x. So for us, for me, it's my my job to try and change that conversation. And to get it as in know the value of your instructor. And so I think it's gonna be difficult for those who possibly worked in operators before I think it's going to change, you're going to struggle possibly financially to keep classes what that climb is going to look like, where the massive opportunity is community based instructors, those who work in those who have pivoted actually during lockdown, and have gone on tour in wet soggy UK fields, or on tennis courts whilst it's pouring down with rain on rooftops or, or working in community venues that I think that's where the biggest opportunity is going to be. Because, you know, what is it 12% of the population come to gyms? What about the other mods that need to be engaged? And I think possibly they, they're ready to listen?

Will:  

Yeah, yeah. Okay. So overall opportunity exists and helping the community. I think i think i think I agree with that, right? Like I actually did a podcast on earlier in the year. And if there's one thing that I think you can see, categorically across the world, from all governments and experts, and the industry itself is that, and it happened before, right? Like, we always knew that the illnesses of inactivity, like diabetes and heart to heart conditions, and, and, and the like, we're already you know, the biggest causes of mortality. And now we know that if there's another risk, respiratory pandemic, that being fit will be the single biggest factor in ensuring that you are less likely to be negatively impacted by it. And so you've got a whole group of people that if they didn't want to do it for aesthetic reasons before or if they didn't see the health benefits before that they may be really, really obvious about the health benefits Now, having seen and having seen the very, very obvious statistics around cardio fitness, and yes, and your risk of developing severe severe COVID, severe respiratory.

Sue Wilkie  

So yeah, exactly that that that group that we never got before starting to listen. And you know, as they say, you need to listen to something five times before you hear it, I think this has been the biggest, the biggest stamp down of you need to hear it and start listening to make a change. So we have the opportunity to change and run with it really. And I think we've been talking about this slightly diversity across but we did a lot of work with them, cause I don't know if you've had Mel Spooner on...

Will:  

I haven't but I do know...Tell us a bit about them.

Sue Wilkie  

So Cores have put together a product or a product or training or element or taught around and Dot Colin Robertson's on the public health England's board for long COVID. So those people who are suffering from long COVID, how do we deal with them? How do we treat them and the whole COVID pandemic recovery. So we've been doing work with Mel and Cole together to try and provide some training and at least insights on how we deal with people coming back. And what I was going to go on to rather than into causing in particular was, we as a instructor nation needs to be looking at delivering a manageable class to people. In the last 5-10 years, there's been the HIIT,, the FIIT, the VIIT, the variable intensity, it's go hard or go home with a large amount of the classes that we see out there is how hard and how much you know, this class is how you need to come to my class that's harder than that class, where if we're looking at that percentage of how many people currently attend classes or gyms, there's that bigger percentage of people that aren't coming and therefore we need to be looking at how we engage them and the level of teaching that we're doing. Not saying the quality of teaching, but we need to have entry level sessions for people.

Will:  

Yeah, for sure. I'm one of those converts who, I'm from a high intensity background, like I started off doing body attack. And then obviously shift started off as a bodyweight format, we've recently sort of branched out. And now we have M1ND, which is pure mobility and sort of functional stability and flexibility. But I'm one of the walking converts, we're at the start of the pandemic, I wouldn't have viewed walking as as, like an effective exercise. And then I am in with that I just got so sick of doing burpees in my kitchen, I couldn't do another one. And so I just took to doing, you know, a long walk every day, and then I would get home and kind of work out the calorie expenditure of that long walk, and then realize that, wow, if I'm looking at it from a purely matrix perspective, that was actually quite a good form of exercise, and like, my back doesn't hurt. I'm not bored, and I got some fresh air and it was good for my mental health to go out. And I think that the the benefits of just moving need have needed to have a lot more spotlight than the benefits of necessarily sweating or working out hard, or getting fitter or getting immediate results, right? Like the the benefits of just moving every day are over the course of a lifetime. So much better than the benefits of getting like, like losing a bit of weight on a holiday and then go back to an unhealthy lifestyle.

Sue Wilkie  

Yeah, it's the sustainability of it. Isn't it really at the end the day? Yeah.

Will:  

So I'm coming back to kind of your role working within an NGO. So how like coming out of the pandemic, and now that you're probably hopefully not going to be so involved with writing guidelines and interpreting government advice, what do you see the role of bodies like EMD, and some of the other ones you've mentioned, and potentially other ones, like, what do you see the role of those for the fitness industry and instructors moving forward, if you could encapsulate what you want to be able to do? What would that be?

Sue Wilkie  

Well, personally, personally, I just want to be the voice of instructors. That's what I've just been the whole way. You know, that's where I want to be in the platform I've been placed upon, is to always remind the powers that be think about the end person first. So for me, it's think about the instructors. And then before that, think about the consumers, what do they want? What are the instructors want and be their voice and keep fighting for their that what they need? So for me, it's about how do I empower instructors? How do I give them the knowledge, the tools, the skills, to be able to reach different sections, sectors reach different groups, be sustainable as a business, you know, I think, prior to lockdown, and this is not the demeanor a group exercise instructor, but when we worked as an operator, you just rocked up and did your class. We didn't know how to run it as a sustainable business. You know, so we started doing that with a series of webinars. But I think as a, we need to be always remembering why we're here as a governing body. And it you know, it's to get people active is our number one priority. And in order to get those people active, we need to empower the people who are delivering that, with the right skill set tools, and a voice, you know, we need to be listening to them and making changes on their behalf.

Will:  

Do you feel that you have more of a voice now through the course of the pandemic and some of the working groups that you've been on and the connection with the government department that oversees finances more in the UK? Do you feel that like, now you have a bit more of a direct line to the people that make the ultimate policy?

Sue Wilkie  

Yeah, Yeah, I do. I definitely feel like I've been I have, I suffered a lot from imposter syndrome. And then someone points out to me, like, who you actually speak to and who you deal with. But the nice thing is the conversations there now, you know, even yesterday, sadly, we've got a different variant that's coming to the UK now and sort of certain areas. So immediately, I just picked up the phone and gone any idea on what's happening? And could this be, you know, rather than shutting us down, could this be option one? That would never have happened this time last year, you know, to consider these people that, you know, I can pick up the phone and talk to them. And there's definitely more lines of communication going open, what we need to do is help the government have the parameters to utilize our workforce, and to be part of that solution, really. So the communication lines now, as a sector, I think are great. I really do think adversity has brought together a unity of you know, I'm on the workforce call at three o'clock today, which was with everybody again, despite there being not much coming out. We're still meeting to look at well knows I've just been on an inclusivity training at the moment to look at the whole bigger picture of how we become more inclusive. That's happening as a sector wide now. You know, so the voice is definitely heard.

Will:  

Yeah, and I can say that is and I can say that like currently being in Paris, where gyms are not open, there's, so we are at a different stage of reopening to the UK and UK is, has managed to get there, there terrible time done over Christmas. And, characteristically, a couple of months behind this sort of been the case during much of the pandemic, or the latest pandemic, I should say. And so we're reopening more slowly here. But one of the things that I just can't get over is the fact that gyms are shut, but indoor cinemas, so movie theaters have reopened to the public, but gyms remain closed. Even though there is there is like ample evidence to suggest that transmission within gyms where regular cleanings taking place, and we are able to space people out where that's let's contract tracing by the very nature of the fact that you have to be a member to get in, all these things that should allow for this to reopen. And I think that's testament to the fact that the French just don't have a strong lobbying body for health and fitness. And just generally, the French government is just a lot more far behind in terms of understanding the benefits of fitness. And I think we all know that right? Anyone that works on the list industry knows that the US is sort of often leading the charge on fitness innovation in the UK is not far behind them. And in Europe, probably legs two or three years behind. And nothing that has been really really, blatantly shown up by the difference in policy and reopening between just the UK and France here are only separated by by a couple of hours on the train. But what is what has been embracing physical activity, embracing fitness facilities as a means to help avoid the pandemic getting worse or future pandemics and the other just ignoring the industry completely. It's very sad.

Sue Wilkie  

And it's sad. I know, it's education as well. I know we've got facts and figures, but it's like, I think for me, the government, no matter what government when the second variant is much more transmissible by air and expirationn rates. So it's it's almost, you know, maybe France is ignorance is bliss, they don't know any different. So therefore they're panicking and don't want it rather than rather than looking at the bigger picture of it's a solution to it.

Will:  

So I have a question. So for those listeners that aren't from the UK, I'll explain it a little bit in August, the UK government did eat out to help out, which was a, which was a basically no sales tax and subsidy on anyone that wanted to go out and eat at a restaurant in public with groups to try and reinvigorate the restaurant industry. And many people have have cited that that was probably a large factor in the In fact, very, very fast rising rates in the UK in September and going into October. So basically COVID in the UK got a whole lot worse after a specific government policy that encouraged people to go out and eat with the from outside their own households. Now, I know that there have been people that have called for a fitness industry version, such as you know, workout to help out. So some sort of subsidy, do you think the government would would prioritize the hospitality industry above the fitness industry? Again, knowing what they know now? 

Sue Wilkie  

Yeah. And it has to do with the economy.

Will:  

Just because it forms such a much bigger part of the economy?

Sue Wilkie  

I don't have facts or figures. But you can clearly see what the hospitality industry brings in financially to the UK, and what the fitness industry does. And unfortunately, that's where it does, it did feel like that. And you could see it very quickly is like, despite that happening, we were straightaway going right? We need to, you know, let's help out to work out, you know, and stuff like that. It was it was all about for me, and I think a lot of the interview buddies would say it's based on the economy to get the economy going again. I'm not sure they'd do the same campaign again, I think I probably wouldn't. I'm really hoping, but you never know.

Will:  

Right? So, um, I guess like that, that kind of covers most of the stuff that I wanted to talk to you about my only my other question is kind of we're talking about your view for regulatory bodies. What are your biggest predictions for the next 12 months? You've been in your role for about 15 now,, 12 of those have been, well no, 14 have been trial by fire. Yeah. Where do you where to from here for the industry industry? And we've talked a little bit about this, obviously, the community instructor is is obviously here to stay top instructors are going to be a little bit at the whim of what happens with clubs and that's a little bit TBD. You know that we know that small operators and boutiques have had their memberships come back and larger clubs are struggling more often because they're based in the inner in urban centers where people aren't back in the office yet, which is just you know, and we don't know exactly when that will happen. And as people drift back to work, maybe things will stabilize. But what is the what's your prediction from sitting from your vantage point?

Sue Wilkie  

I'm always the optimistic rather than the house. I really hope there's a massive return for everybody. I think we've just filmed an advert with Sport England, about consumer confidence to get people back in, that's going to be a biggest barrier. You people who are in classes before are going to come back. But there is still going to be a massive issue with consumer confidence about going into a room with 30 other people. So, but the, the optimistic part of me is, we have an opportunity, let's just grasp it, you know, we really need to be, and you know, I can I can sing on the behalf of all of you guys in the UK and elsewhere. But do it have the confidence to step up and challenge as well as, even if you're just an instructor trying to get into your local authority hall that won't open, you know, start having that voice to, will provide you with the stuff that you need, but have the voice to stand up and be accountable for and really look at as a business where you need to diverse to make yourself sustainable, that I think that's really important for people is, what you've done always doesn't always mean it's going to be going to return the same way you might have to diverse out for different area now whether that is on demand classes, that you have your own platform, whether that's partnering up with a yoga instructor that you don't teach yoga, but your class master yoga, I think it's embrace the change, you know, make the most of opportunities. And if you're struggling with any areas, as many of instructor done, you know, if you live in the UK, come to us, and we'll try and be that voice on your behalf.

Will:  

Awesome. Well, I think that's a great place for us to finish up. So okay, thank you very much for joining me, I know that you've got an action packed afternoon back on working groups and inclusivity training. So thank you for taking the time out to chat to us today.

Sue Wilkie  

Thank you very much. And well done to everyone out there who is maneuvering their way through this pandemic, so and thanks Will for having a voice for them all, as well.

Will:  

My pleasure. Thanks, Sue.

Will:  

So that was my chat with Sue, I think a really interesting perspective on what happened during the pandemic, and another side that instructors may not have seen or been aware of. I've been saying it constantly for the past year, but I love that Sue said it too. instructors have played such a huge role in keeping their communities active and fit. But not only that, acting as a support person and caring for people's mental health during a time that has been difficult for everyone. It's great to know that we have these governing bodies that are appreciating the role of the instructor and working hard to ensure people in government understand the important role that we play in the health of our communities. A silver lining of COVID is that it shone a light on how important our health is, and how important community is and that we as instructors need to run with this light and continue to prove to everyone that we are essential workers. So if you're in the UK, I hope that you like knowing what EMD was doing for you. If you're in another country, I'd really like you to have a think did your governing body do the work for you? Please let me know if you think they did or they didn't. This is a conversation that I would like to pick up. We need to make sure that the governing bodies who are looking after fitness group fitness, PT sport, are keeping an eye on what we are doing and supporting us. So you need to talk to them, challenge them, ask them for support and make sure that they're doing what they're there for. Because the more input that they have from us, the better that they can advocate for us in the industry. Thank you for listening. If you're enjoying the show, don't forget to subscribe for all the latest episodes wherever you get your podcasts. And while you're there, please drop us a review. You can also get in touch with me at will@sh1ftfitness.com. I'm Will Brereton and you've been listening to Group Fitness Real Talk.