Barb:

A good friend of mine said that, you know, your next big gig is not going to come from LinkedIn or from a job search. She said that it's going to come from a connection, you know, so who knows, you know, your work, knows your skill set, and is going to find a fit for you. And that is 100% true. That's exactly how I landed this, this gig. It's because like the people that I worked with in the past knew me. And they, they, they they brought me on board for this. It wasn't, it didn't happen through any other way other than they knew me from my from my connections. And it's so critical in this industry. Everyone should have a black book. 

Will:  

Hey, I'm Will Brereton, founder of Sh1ft Fitness and this is Group Fitness Real Talk, a show about how to survive and even thrive in group fitness in 2021. and beyond. Are you making smart decisions today that will set you up for the next 5, 10, or 20 years? When we're non-stop go, it can be very easy to get caught up in the moment. But now more than ever, it's really important to take stock, to sit back and reflect on where you're at and where you want to be in the future. Today on the podcast, I'm excited to welcome my friend Barb Brodowsky, or BARB, as she would say. Barb has dealt with some really big career changes and life changes in the last 18 months, including losing what she thought was her dream job. And these have challenged her and really forced her to think about what's most important to her. And today, she's here to share all of that wisdom with you. Barb's got five very wise tips that will help you to ensure that you're getting the most out of your current role. But it will also help you to future proof your career and carve out the future that you want. I guarantee that there's something in here to help everyone. Now, on to my chat with Barb.

Will:  

Barb! Welcome to the podcast. How are you? 

Barb  

I'm great. How are you? 

Will:  

I'm very good. Thank you. I've been looking forward to doing this since I started the podcast. So Barb, you and I used to work together at Beachbody, and we've stayed, we were fast friends and stayed close friends. It's really nice to see you again today. 

Barb  

Good to see you, too. I miss you. 

Will:  

Yeah, me too. I mean, hopefully we will get to see each other in person again at some stage right? Fingers crossed, I'm sure it's gonna come. Right. So tell me where are you dialing into from dialing into the podcast from today?

Barb  

So I'm in Southern California. I was born and raised here. So I've always had a job that's allowed me to do a little bit of traveling because where I live, it's not like the epicenter of anything, really. So I'm coming to you from Southern California. 

Will:  

Perfect. And how's the weather there?

Barb  

I can't lie. The weather here is awesome. It's like, mid 60s right now. It's, I hate even saying it because there's people who are like shoveling snow right now. But it's mild. I mean, it's this is a great time of year for us. It's not it's not too cold. Not too hot. Not too windy. 

Will:  

Just right. Goldilocks weather? 

Barb  

I know, it's like golden Goldilocks, it's just right. 

Will:  

Perfect. Okay, so we're gonna get into your five key things to think about when it comes to understanding your value as a group fitness instructor. But before we get to that, I thought you might want to talk a little bit about your background in fitness. And also, in particular, the last sort of 12 to 14 months, which I know have been a roller coaster for 100 reasons. And it's really helped you to crystallize some of these pieces of advice that you're going to be doling out to our listeners later. So over to you. 

Barb  

Gosh, you know, where do you start, you start with a epicenter. So I've, I was born and raised into fitness. I've always done fitness at some capacity. And I caught on at a pretty young age that I needed to have more in my back pocket than just teaching classes. So I right away started managing small clubs. I then went to work for 24 Hour Fitness, then Family Fitness, I was there for like 17 years overseeing the group fitness programming for about 19 to 24 clubs, depending on the year. I then left, which I think everyone should do. And I went and opened up a YMCA, and I worked nonprofit for a couple of years. And listen, it's such a great experience because you can make it, you learn how to make a penny scream, like you really learn how to do really good work with very little and you learn a lot about just how to do a lot with little. And then you know I came upon the job at Beachbody. So at my my repertoire of jobs is not, it's not deep. It's it's I guess it's deep, but not wide. I haven't had like 30 different jobs. I'm really someone who like, you know, get settled in and I find my path and I just kind of chip away at you know, getting good work done. So my job with Beachbody came about and it was well I know you know, I love that job. It was such a great fit. It was just, there's something about the company that there's so much gravitas with it. And it was fun. And we did really good work. 

Will:  

So just for the purpose of the listeners, because obviously I know intimately what you and I did at Beachbody. Why don't you just tell them what your role was? 

Barb  

Sure. My role was, it changed a lot over the years. I was hired first to manage the master trainers, and then it kind of rolled on to overseeing some of the fitness and some of the production. So my title at the end was Senior Director of Fitness and Global Field Operations. So I had I mean, it was a great job. It was so much fun. And when it came, like most things, my other jobs came to an end because I chose to leave. This job came to an end because they decided to close down our department. And I'll tell you what, I mean, they gave me time to prepare for it. But then when the day that happened, I mean, it was it was it was your identity is kind of yanked from you. 

Will:  

Yeah. So I'd like, for listeners of the show who, who've listened right back to the first episode, they will recognize this same story from Michelle Park, who has given us her account from the choreographer slash Program Director, or I forget the name, format expert, Yeah, for PiYo. Um, so you obviously working in the company, and you've already said that your, your career to that point had been deep and not wide. So obviously, you had gotten into jobs, and really given them your all. And this was another situation like that, right? Like you found a job that you said to me on numerous occasions was like your dreams apart from the travel, like, apart from the commute, because you had a pretty long commute, I remember lots of time for audiobooks. But apart from that, it was sort of your dream job. So like, and as someone who's had a long career in fitness, and has gotten to the point where they're at sort of the apex or the like the the rise of the career, I'm really at the top of where you can be because there's not that many jobs out there like that. Right. Right, tell me a little bit more about exactly the emotions that you went through, because I know that this is something that resonates with a lot of people that listen.

Barb  

Well, it's so interesting, one I've learned so much over the past year is I probably had too much of my identity tied into the job, versus the good work I did you know, like, because you can do good work anywhere. But I got so much of my identity from what I was with that company and how I managed my career. It was just, it was something that was just such a big part of me that I've learned when it would have ended that that's probably not very healthy. I think we need to find our identity and different things like in our good work, but not a job title. And not and not a not a company either by the way, you know, I think, you know, the first thing I did will January 1 last year I wrote down because I knew my job was ending, I wrote down all the things my dream job would be you know, I was like, in Italy living my best life, like, what would this look like? And I seriously, I just thought big, I just got really big. And then I put that paper away. And unfortunately, when I when the job ended, I had already been interviewing for other work and you kind of feel like you need to work, like you need a title, like you need this. You need that. So I just was like, I was just jumping in, and I should have paused. 

Will:  

Yeah. And yeah, I completely understand that. It's interesting. I was I was in a on a Facebook Live that I was listening to. It was Emma Barry speaking with Ingrid Ramiro and they were kind of talking about that exact same thing, which was a lot of people kind of took, were worried about what they were going to do immediately and sort of jumped into other things. And now, now that we realize that 2020 was bought challenges, but also like opportunity to think a little bit more about what it will be that now's the time to kind of take a breath and reframe what you really want to do not just what you feel you need to do. And I know that that's also quite a privileged position and that a lot of people have struggled struggle financially this year. And so they've had to take stuff they don't want to do. But from a long term perspective, if you want to find happiness, you need to find some way to make the things that make your heart sing match up with the things that you get paid for, right? 

Barb  

Well, I think a lot of times will take a job to make ends meet. And that's, I mean, that's you have to have to pay your bills. Yep. But always have that long term. That's why I've talked about having, you know, an end game. So I'm going to take this job for now, knowing that my goal is to either move this way in the company or out of the company and find a way truly where my heart really sings. Yeah. And the first role I took. It didn't check many of my boxes. It it had a great title, but it just didn't oh my gosh, Will, I was miserable. It wasn't it wasn't my it wasn't my jam. And I didn't want to not have a job. And then I'll tell you what, COVID hit, right. And I didn't have to have the job anymore. Because COVID hit. Yeah, so it was, you know, God saved me from having to go through the breakup with a company because it was a clean break. It's like--. 

Will:  

So but knowing that could be a hard thing, right? Like, especially for someone like you that's been it's not someone that's bounced from job to job, but it's been in jobs for a long period of time. The ability to go actually this isn't right for me and I don't think it's right for you either. And maybe we should be like, part as friends, 

Barb  

and having the guts to say this is not this is not for me like you're you're not getting the best of me, and I'm not happy here and just finding a different path that makes sense for you. But I think we panic sometimes, especially in the fitness industry. What when I thought about this, this chat with you Will, it's because I think people don't manage their career in a way that they'll have long term success. And there's so many opportunities in this space to see different opportunities. But we get so myopic and doing one thing, like just teaching classes, just personal training, when really, you have to look at all aspects, all the ways you can make money in the industry. And I was helping a friend, a friend reached out to me who's been in industry forever, because he was interviewing for a really big gig. And he wanted me to help him with some stuff. And he had been around for so long, it was stuff that he should have known. And then I realized, Oh, my gosh, like people, if you're in the fitness industry, if you want to make a living and really have some roots here, you need to know how everything operates and everything. 

Will:  

And we're not we're not going to name this person, but just say that they are a big name in the industry that's presented at, you know, multiple big stage conferences over the years, right, and has a very good reputation, and the teaching and instructing and training sphere. 

Barb  

Yeah, and his and when his his livelihood was just yanked from him. And I, we all saw that we saw all of our friends suffer with that, like the last class I taught was March 11. We all know our date, we all know our end date. Especially in California, we've not reopened yet. So like we all know, our end date, like mine was March 11, like the last class I taught, and if that was my only source of income, I'd be in much worse position. I have watched people pivot quite nicely into virtual and stuff. But really having having a plan. You know, having a plan and taking charge of your career is what's really important. 

Will:  

Yeah, exactly. And I think that we spent a lot of a lot of time last year. And I know that I spent a lot of time talking to instructors, and you know, on this podcast many times talking about how to pivot quickly and the things you need to know about pivoting. And so I'm looking forward to this conversation with you, Barb, because it's 2021. And I know that for a lot of us, things are kind of the same as they were at the end of 2020, which sort of sucks. But also, it's time to start taking what we learned last year and integrating it into the way we'll move forward. And you and I have had a little discussion about this before, before during this podcast. And it's really important that instructors, I think for instructors, they were basically found the two camps, ones that did it as a hobby, and had another header head of main job. And this was a side hustle, as a side hustle than a passion Play, right. And then you had people who instructing was a very, very important part of their livelihood. And I think both of these, both of these groups have been equally sort of emotionally affected. But obviously, the financial effect has hits the people that were doing it all, all in all the time as a career were hits more financially, because they didn't have that other job to fall back on. And I think that group fitness was something that was easy and super fun. That got really difficult and emotionally draining overnight. And as we come back, and we're going to talk lots in the podcast this year about what the reality of fitness moving forward is. But as we come back, because classes will come back eventually, hopefully, the vaccine will start to have really great effect. I think we should all be hopeful about that. classes will come back community classes will come back gyms reopen. But it's I think it's really important. And this is group fitness real talk, so we're being real, that instructors come back to teaching with a better idea of not just why they're doing it, but also like what are they getting out of it. And I think that that's something that requires a little bit of reflection upfront, which is what I know that you are going to import import some wisdom for us about 

Barb  

Yeah. So the first thing is I already talked about but just knowing your lane and knowing, knowing knowing that, that you have a lane but you can also pivot and try and expand your lane a bit too. So if you've only done group fitness, you can expand to PT, you can expand to operations, you expand to sales, but always having your foot in another door is really important. Don't just stay myopic in one thing. You said it best a long time ago to Will. When this first happened, and everyone was pivoting to virtual and and our people gave us so much grace. They gave us grace like we weren't doing it right you know, we were messy with our, you know, it was it was a hot mess. And they gave us grace and you said, it's not gonna happen that way again, plan on it plan on this happening again and be ready for it. So we know we can do it but having a really great plan and really knowing your lane and knowing that your lane can change. Yes, I think you we have right now. We've had I don't think we have it now I think but even my myopic view with my with my former job. I didn't see that thing ending. Yeah, exactly. I've done like three interviews in my life, you know, I spent the whole summer pretty much interviewing. So just kind of knowing your lane. And write down what your lane is where you want your lane to be. Put it on paper. 

Will:  

Yeah, for sure. I think I learned this the way I learned this best I think was when I was at Les Mills, and there were lots of trainers who had been with Les Mills since the 90s. And they had put a lot of time and effort into like bringing body pump to the UK. And then they would get to a certain age where they weren't quite the right age for a trainer anymore, and the work would begin to dry up and they'd just kind of always expected it to be there. And it just became not there. And I know that this has happened with other you know, instructors, your instructors at a, you know, a big a big box gym, they've had the 6pm, or the 7pm, Monday night class for years, and then someone comes through and, and at some point, they do get moved on and understanding that understanding that there is a season, but also, but if you give all of your energy to somebody else, you give them control over how you're going to be able to express that. And so if all of your passion has gone into teaching the 7pm turbo kick at this gym, and that goes away, like what do you do, then? It's not, it's not that you have to you don't have to spend all your time worrying about whether it'll go away. But you should be thinking about what are the components of that, that makes me happy. And what could I do have this opportunity was if this gym closes or if this class comes off the timetable? What would I do? And I think that's a question that we should all be asking in every industry but particularly fitness after what's happened last year. 

Barb  

Such a great point, I when I was doing the CW circuit the past couple years. I remember thinking like I'm not gonna lie, I'm 53. 

Will:  

But a gorgeous 53 with wonderful hair.

Barb  

But I have enough social awareness to understand that there's a shelf life for onstage talent. Mm hmm. I know that and men no men have a longer shelf life they just do and I don't know why I'm not mad about it. I can't change that one. I can't change the world today. So what I but having known that I've spent my last five years probably being more behind the scenes. I would still be on stage but I'd have people with me or I would turn it over to them. And my my philosophy was I'll be like Bela Karoli. Am I aging myself, like Bela karolyi, like he was the US gymnastics coach for for like Nadia Comaneci like the most winningest 

Will:  

Okay, I recognize that name. I couldn't I couldn't have gotten it in a quiz show though.

Barb  

I know sorry. I but I like but he you never saw him do a backflip. Or I would say Bill Belichick Have you ever seen Bill Belichick throw a football? No. But the dude is the winningest football coach so that my goal was to pivot my whole being to being like a Bill Belichick or a Bela Karoli. Google him.

Will:  

You have to figure out the spelling yourself.

Barb  

Right? They coach great people, they bring up great people, and they're relevant. They've stayed relevant. And that's that's kind of I think it's important to is the only way you can really stay relevant is to kind of release some things that are going to be taken from you anyway.

Will:  

Yeah.

Barb  

And and just be the best version of, of you in the space you want to be in. You know.

Will:  

So when it comes to knowing your lane, what what are some obvious other opportunities that you see for someone who's had a career and group fitness and harking back to the Facebook Live that I was listening to yesterday, Emma Barry made a good comment that a like corporate training is a perfect kind of sidestep a little bit of retraining required, maybe. But how many corporate training sessions Have you been to that are just dull and boring? Like if you're someone that can command a room and be exciting and make people listen to the information you're imparting to them in a group fitness scenario, then why couldn't you do it for a corporate training scenario, whether it's kind of life skills, or I don't know health and safety or any type of stuff that just needs you to deliver information and have people be engaged,

Barb  

there's so many opportunities for instructors, I always say start off, start off being that being like the king of your own backyard, you know, if you to be a leader, be a leader in your backyard first. And there's so many opportunities to speak at YMCA, at women's clubs at the Chamber of Commerce, at City Council, there's so many opportunities to speak and educate on health and fitness. And really

Will:  

Now more than ever, right? Because people like two reasons one, people know they need to be healthy to avoid being sick with the Coronavirus or otherwise. And two governments are starting to realize that healthcare is broken and that that, that fitness and health care kind of goes in the same in the same category. And they're beginning to think more about that. So you're totally right. And it makes me think about the conversation I had with Bevan last year he talked about, like being a, being a community leader and a local leader is really what he goes for in fitness and what he thinks more fitness instructors should be focused on helping people like in the local community.

Barb  

Yeah, you can go to your local like in the states here we have medical groups, ya know. Medical groups need a health advisor, like someone on the ground floor to say no, this is what's really happening. You think they're doing this but they're not doing that they use on the ground floor. And it leads me to my other point to is, so many times these things that we'll do, we'll do for free. And it's really important that we understand our value we are we're too often asked to do things for free. People are saying, Oh, they should want to do it. Yeah, actually, I should want to do it by I've done it 25 years ago when I first got started. Now, you need to pay for my brain and what I know.

Will:  

Which is a perfect segue into number two, right? So, which is why don't you just so just so that everyone's following along?

Barb  

Don't give away your time and your knowledge like know when, know when to give it away for free, and knnow one to charge. And we had a great chat about this will is and that's what started the conversation with me with my friend. I gave him a lot of my time, and I loved doing it is a good friend of mine. But then start thinking, I'm asked a lot of these questions all the time. And sometimes we do it because they're a good friend. Yeah. Other times we do it because there's actually going to be some a benefit for me. Like if I was to be interviewed on television and give information like my local my local station, and go on there and give them great information. And there's, that's, there's something in that for me. Yeah. But me just taking these phone calls all the time. People are picking my brain, I realized this summer, actually, they should pay me for this. So this is all of my knowledge over the past 30 years, how to make things work.

Will:  

So how do you know when so how do you how do you delineate that level personally? It's tough right?

Barb  

Yeah, it is tough, basically. When I know when someone's calling me when they want my little black book, Mm hmm. That's the best way to describe it. A pretty rich black book. I joke about Beachbody like they wanted me for my black book because they were starting something new. And I have a lot of connections in the fitness industry. When someone is reaching out to me for my for my resources, that's when I know I need to charge them. When someone reached out to me for help personally, that's what I know it's, it's to help a friend. I don't mind even helping, I don't mind helping anybody. But that's when I realized we are all too eager to not put a value on what we know, we're all too eager to give away for free. And in this economy, if we all keep giving it for free. That's like when classes went free on, everyone's offering free classes.

Will:  

Oh yeah, we've talked about that on this podcast before. When everyone was just giving away every class.

Barb  

You're giving away everything, everything, give away one for free to get in the door, but then you have to charge. But the problem is we don't know our worth our value. Yeah. And I can tell you stories where I've, I've said, you know, Oh, you don't need to pay me that much. But they would have paid me twice as much. So know your worth, go in there knowing what you're worth, if someone's gonna want some of your time is what is it? 100 bucks an hour? 150 an hour? 20 bucks an hour? That way you're not just giving it away. Because then it waters down the entire industry as well.

Will:  

Yeah, this is this is gonna be a really a really difficult point. Because instructor pay is something that I've talked about for the last decade. It's terrible. Like, the pay is like, I think like monetarily, if they taking inflation into account, it's a whole different story. But if you just look at the average, rate for a class, it's almost less now than when I started in the industry in '99, 2000. And when you account for inflation, the real value of that money for teaching a class has just gone down. And I think that a lot of gyms and fitness facilities are going to be hurting and they're going to be struggling to pay instructors and I think that it's that this is going to be a really difficult conversation that a lot of instructors are going to face because at the end of the day, you want to get back to teaching in the gym but like if you if you have developed a really strong online business then going and teaching at the gym and spending all that time for a small amount of money might not be the right decision for you.

Barb  

You know what's so interesting it and I can just speak to like California and the disparity like it's less expensive to live where I lived in Los Angeles you know an instructor in Lancaster gets $25 a class instructor and LA gets 50 bucks a class yeah and that's because of the cost of living but my point has always been we pay the same to be an instructor, we have the same money for shoes, the same money for for music, the same money for certifications you know, it's like it's not it's never been equitable it's never been fair one way or the other. So I think when people are running their own business, they're learning their worth and I hope it makes people who run the gyms understand that you can't have great instruction for free or for you know minimum wage if you're, you're going to get what you pay for.

Will:  

Yeah, yeah for sure. Cool, so number three. This is, annd you've alluded to this earlier but take me take me through a little bit more

Barb  

you know it's it's know your end game. Kind of understand when you're looking for a job. Let's say you settle you find a really an okay job. You have to you have to have a job. What's your endgame in that job in that role? I've always gone into a role like I've not had 1000 jobs. I know. I know, when I go in, I look I look around, I'm always looking up like what's my pathway to get there? Because I think we stay stagnant. That's when we're not happy anyway. And if you're going to have a job where there's a ceiling, great example, is the first I took after I left Beachbody. The guy who hired me was the chief growth officer. And he left before I started my job. So that changed the dynamic of everything who I was reporting to, it changed everything. So my plan that I had was dumped on right away, and I no longer had a plan or a pathway that I that seemed viable to me. best advice I should have given myself was get out. So kind of know your end game and then know your end game and know that you can, you can you can fix it, you can pivot, but make sure it's sustainable. Like just teaching classes is not sustainable, right, just stayinng at a job you're not happy with. It's not sustainable, you need to find something that's sustainable, and a great side hustle sustainable

Will:  

This is. And this is a hard truth that I that you and I have been telling instructors for a long time. But and it's the same the same conversation that to be to be frank, I've had with Master trainers as well. So you know, people who are in the, like, normal vernacular of the industry, they're sort of a level up from an instructor, they're training other instructors. So they're that kind of one, one up level of seniority and the number of times that I've had to sit people down and say, You are pouring 100% of your time, energy and passion into this thing that isn't going to like pay your mortgage, and it isn't going to help your family get ahead, and it does have a have a shelf life on it. What else are you doing, and I drove back to the trainer example, I pulled from at the start, we're like, you need to know that this that your career needs to be a career, not just a job. And if you are just teaching classes, that's fine if you've got an idea of where you want to go. But teaching classes can't last forever. And guys, most of the people that are sort of no 40 and below who are listening to this podcast, are probably not going to get a very good pension or the pension age is going to be like 75. And so what are you going to do when your body gives out and you need to do something else? I'm not saying you have to do it now. But you should be thinking, Okay, how am I leveraging the relationships that I'm building? when I'm teaching classes? am I adding them all to a personal Facebook so that these people can be connections because I know of instructors who have actually ended up like to use the corporate training example. They were an instructor, there was someone that worked in a big corporate in London, and they ended up going in and being a trainer for that business. And now they've they've moved out of instructing and into something else because of the relations that ships that they created. And that's this unique opportunity that Group Fitness instructors have is to create strong relationships with people who want more of what you're giving, whether it's your energy, your charisma, your knowledge, your understanding, your companionship, any of that type of stuff. But you need to leverage those relationships, right? Like,

Barb  

It's funny, Will, because a good friend of mine said that, you know, your next big gig is not going to come from LinkedIn or from job searches. I mean, it may, I had a lot of interviews out there on that, on that side of it, she said that it's going to come from a connection, you know, so who knows, you know, your work, knows your skill set, and it's going to find a fit for you. Yeah. And that is 100%. True. That's exactly how I landed this, this gig. It's because I the people that I worked with in the past knew me. And they they they brought me on board for this, it wasn't it didn't happen through any other way. Other than they knew me from my from my connections. Yeah. And it's so critical in this industry. Everyone should have a black book,

Will:  

100%. And it's super easy now, right? Because it can be social media, you can just add these people to your social media account. And like, it's good to get their email address as well, because social media accounts can disappear, and email addresses are sticky. But if nothing else, if someone comes to your class, you should be going add me on Instagram, I give out like I give out tips and tricks and blah, blah, blah, whatever you want to do whatever your brand is, but you should absolutely be using your classes to build your personal network. Because otherwise you are wasting and a really great resource and opportunity for career progression. However it may be.

Barb  

They say your next job, your if you're single, your next next boyfriend, your next your next relationship is going to happen from your circle of five from the internal circle. And so it really is true. So make sure that your internal circle too is, you know, makes you level up. Yeah, you know, you need to make sure you level up. And you know, my fourth point to know your value. I already talked about that a little bit. But I want to go a little deeper to know your value. Talking about money is probably the most uncomfortable thing on the planet. I don't know why we just have a problem saying what what we're worth. And I can give two great examples. One example was I got a contract with my consulting job and I didn't know what to charge. And I wanted to just charge what I was making with my former job and it just seemed like an exorbitant amount of money. I pitched it and they took it and I was like what? People will pay. But I think we're so used to, I don't know, we're just so used to saying oh, no, you know, just half that. You know, whatever you want to pay me. Go in with a plan. Talk to someone who knows. Talk to some experts. I talked people who had the same role yet. I asked around. So I knew I was right. I was in the ballpark. Yeah. And I just went for it. And they took it. And then I was like, holy cow. I didn't. I was not I wasn't even going to ask for half that much will. And the same thing with this last gig I had the same exact thing is I didn't know what to ask for that while I sat down and mapped it out. Like this is what this role pays. I asked for that. And that's what it paid. That's what they paid me.

Will:  

And I think that years and years of chronic underpay in the group fitness, specifically in group fitness has made everyone question the value that they have. And then I think it's also you see, you know, Apple fitness $10 a month and Peloton $19.99 per month and you think oh my god, they've got these, like, this is this massive company with these big libraries. But that's not the thing that you should be comparing yourself that you should be comparing yourself to, you know what, so that's fine. But what does what does a life coach make? What does a PT make? And what does a plumber make when they come in, they've all got skills, and they're giving their time. I'm not suggesting that you need to benchmark yourself on a life coach. But think a little bit more about what you're actually providing, and how you can price that in a way that's fair, but also gives you back what you need for your time.

Barb  

And gives you and gives you a self worth, like a lot of it's just we don't value what we do ourselves enough. But then when you actually ask for people let me this way, people see you way more valuable. You probably see yourself. Yeah, and I feel like, pay them for that. Yeah. And you're thinking, what will they will they? The answer is yes. And the worst thing they can say is no, and come back and give you less, right? Exactly. My husband's the best one like my whenever I get a good gig, Jeff says you should have asked for more. I'm like, ah, every time I can get, I can get like a billion dollars. Jeff come back and say, you should have asked for more. Every time you know, yeah, bottom line is know, before you start to even plan out, like let's say your new virtual classes. Don't say, "pay me what you want." I see that all the time to pay what you think this is worth. I took a roller skating because that you'd like to roller skate. Online. I know I took like an Instagram roller skating class like wood floors, and we're learning how to spin and when she was done she's like, just you know, you can Venmo me whatever you thought it was worth.

Will:  

Like saying like, know what, I've seen a lot of people doing that. And actually, I was I was on the Zumba site the other day and Zumba has created this amazing digital platform for their instructors. It's a little bit like they've created a bespoke zone for Zumba. And I was trying I was looking at various causes. And all of them were donation based as well.

Barb  

I just I just don't think that's smart. Because and listen, if you can't if someone can't afford it, then you can gift it,, but that's you're gifting it because you want to gift it you're not giving them the option to take a gift.

Will:  

Yeah, yeah.

Barb  

Someone says I can't afford to pay, you say, you know what? You think of this one is a gift but next time they're not getting on the platform.

Will:  

Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? It's It's It's so interesting, since everyone has gone digital, how the effects of other, the effects of what other people within the industry are doing when it comes to charging and cost and fees has such an material impact on every other individual. And I do hope that we can move away from a place where people are giving away a lot of content for free simply because it takes so much time and effort to get the skills required to get to a point to work out with you

Barb  

there's so many of you I'll tell you one thing that's happened very nicely in our industry is people have found a way to make a money make a living selling things to instructors like how to go virtual how to be how to set up your how to set this up. Like you know people, I love the fact that people are so smart like that. And if you're serious about doing it, find out the best practices find people who are leading this in this space, find out how they're doing it. There's no scarcity that when it comes to fitness, there is no scarcity. If you're good and you have a following, you can make a living in your room leading classes without a problem. I am such a fan of it.

Will:  

Yeah, and I like I actually talked about this in a previous podcast that's one of the things that so since gyms are being closed and I was in Paris where gyms have been shut down since September, I'm lucky enough to be in New Zealand now where everyone is back to the gyms that looks like in a position where there's no Coronavirus restrictions, people go back to previous behaviors. So that's that's a green shirt, that's a positive thing. But um, what I was thinking is I'm so surprised that less people have less fitness instructors have created walking groups because what I've really noticed is that there's so many people that have started doing fitness because they've always been a couch potato and they've never gone to fitness classes but someone in their family was doing online fitness in the living room with the television playing and they were like it's not that bad and maybe they got involved like off to the side or in a in a one directional live class. And there's so many people who are just sedentary like I know that that the 20/80 20% of people do exercise 80% of people don't right. And I was listening to Philip Mills do a webinar recently where he said in New Zealand's probably more about that. 30% and he thinks that's changing. But at the end of the day, we all agree that least 70% of people just aren't exercising. And we know that exercise is the one thing that will protect them against dying young, protect them against pandemics, protect them against heart disease, protect them against anxiety, depression, all of the sort of negative things in life, being physically active makes them less likely to happen. And so I would love to see more walking groups led by a fitness instructor where their role was not to learn choreography and deliver it. their role was to be the motivator, getting people to come and make the first steps in their fitness journey because once they've done that walk then they're much more likely to come to your low impact class and then your normal class and

Barb  

there's so many there's so many pathways to get clients or to get members. That is a great one right there. One is so let's say we're in California, it's outdoors. You have to be outdoors right now. It's outdoors. It gives people the confidence they actually can commit to something it's walking three times a week start the park whatever there's a reason why peloton and I'll tell you what Will, I have not had a business call in the past eight months word peloton has not come up.

And I'm using it right now. Peloton has you know those run the running you have the day of the tread and also have outdoor running, outdoor walk/runs, because people want to put their headphones on and go. People actually need though is yes, they need to walk. But they need that motivation. They need the human connection. It's human connection.

Will:  

100% and this is the thing about Peloton and Apple fitness and Les Mills On Demand and a lot of fitness at the moment, is that they are all competing for the 20% or 30% of people that already exercise like no one not very many people are going, oh, I'm sitting on the couch. What am I going to do? I'm going to invest $2,500 in a peloton bike that is that's not the journey. Someone who invests in a Peloton is someone who loves working out, knows the value of exercise. Yeah, who either doesn't live close, like needs to have the convenience of being able to get that workout in at home. And so let those big companies compete for those people and go for the people who are on the couch that you can really help that will really fulfill you and who are only going to walk if you're there to walk with them.

Barb  

That group is called the Health Seekers. So they're the group that they never full on get committed until someone holds their hand and they build up and then they become part of the 20%. Yeah, it is a big jump from that 80%, who's not working out to help figure out the 20%. It's huge, but it happens one step at a time and happens with when they feel successful doing small things. And there's such a great market in that. And that's, you know, when I talk about knowing your lane and knowing what your options are, and kind of thinking outside the box, there's so many ways to make a living in this industry that people haven't thought of. That's one Will, which is great. Get him outside and just start a walking club, a walking social club. I've also talked about training young kids get, you know, get those middle school kids. Well, first of all right now they're not doing PE because they're all stuck in their houses. So, don't tell me some parents wouldn't pay you 30 bucks a week to take that you know, drop off at the park and you work out their kids, you can get 10 kids, like, there's so much opportunity if people would just not think about just teaching a group fitness class, kind of open your horizon. I can walk with them. I can take young kids, I can do seniors. I mean, there's so much opportunity we have we have to open our lane.

Will:  

Yeah, and I think that for a lot of group fitness people who their entry to the industry was they attended a Group Fitness class, they absolutely loved that group fitness class. And it could be anything, right? Like it could be Les Mills, it could be body pump, it could be turbo kick, it could be a great freestyle class, and they went along to that freestyle instructor. And then they get into the industry in order to do that thing that they loved. And then that becomes kind of their view of the fitness industry. And I think that one of the impacts of last year is that we've all had to go Oh, well, like I guess fitness is a lot broader. And if you think of like, the apple fitness plus example is really interesting. Because ultimately, where most people seem to think that Apple fitness plus is going is that the watch is integrated in health. And so now even if you don't have a watch, you know, you're tracking your steps, you're tracking your blood oxygen, you've got a whoop, you know, whoop band that tracks your sleep, all of these metrics are going to start to level like layer up to fitness and movement just being an element of overall healthcare. And I think where a lot of us feel like that already, but we're getting to that point. So where can you jump on that train and start thinking about how can I use my skills as a motivator as a trained practitioner of exercise fitness, to reach all these different groups that you just talked about? Right? Like just go out and find them and you're absolutely right about going to the town hall and doing a talk. There you go. Go to the town hall, do a talk and then invite people to come on your walking group one for free, and then you upsell them to some kind of plan for that.

Barb  

There's a whole generation of people I'm married to one of them. I am, because we're 10 there's a 10 years difference. So I am I'm Gen X and my husband's a baby boomer.

Will:  

Mm hmm. Did you boomer him?

Barb  

We're the most adaptable because we had to learn everything. We didn't have cell phones, we didn't have computers, we didn't have we have any of that stuff. We have to learn technology. That generation is like peace out on technology, my husband still does checks, he still writes checks. I swear, and I love my husband, not bad mouthing, but what I teach you all is there is a generation of people, the 60s and up who need technology. They need a whoop, they need, you can do a whole a whole fee based class, get yourself a whoop, we're gonna do this. Here's how we're going to measure metrics and get them on board with that, because they probably want it. They know they want it probably too well, like, like my husband, once he gets something they like, that's really cool. But there's so many things that there's so many groups of people we can we can actually answer to, we can be a solution for. We need to start thinking about that. It's not just that group, not just that group exercise room. There's a whole group of people, little pods of people that

Will:  

classroom at 24 Hour Fitness that I know you love does not the is not the four walls of your fitness career.

Barb  

No, no you got to think of, you know, what's it called rooms without walls, it's like, there's rooms without walls everywhere. And we see, we need to be a solution for these people, we need to be a solution. And the last thing I want to talk about, you know, knowing what to pay and know the changing landscape, and we kind of just talked about, you know, for me, we need to make sure in this industry, we're always keeping an eye on the changing landscape. And you and I've had a lot of conversations about group fitness. And I do think group is coming back. But it's going to be a lot different. It's going to be a lot different. And we all need to pay attention to the trends and pages what's going on. Because the landscape is changing. And it sounds like that instructor that still wears legwarmers. No, don't be one of those people like don't don't just be stuck where you are because it's changing. It's ever changing. And if we're not, if you're not up to date, then you will get left behind and this industry, there's room for everybody.

Will:  

So can you give some examples of what you mean aside from the leg warmers what you mean by that? So like what's an example of something that you've seen sort of be phased out in the last 10 years that people should probably be thinking more about?

Barb  

Well, I think the new thing now the new thing, thing that's gonna be smarter is like mobility. Like mobility, training, rejuvenation, I don't think and I'm not talking about foam rolling, because foam rolling can be like ehh,, but there's there's actually things you can do for mobility. People need to people need to think about fitness now as longevity and autonomy.

Will:  

Yeah, yes, in a holistic, you're absolutely right.

Barb  

How can I How can I base my career on these two things? Longevity, for my clients, and autonomy for my clients? Yep. And everything else is just white noise. Because you can do those two things in a myriad of ways. We're not everything comes full circle. So like people are back to stepping now. But things come full circle, but a different in a different way. You know, but you can't have that same mindset.

Will:  

By longevity, it's literally living living a long life to become old. And and the what was the other autonomy is like at at that old age, being able to pick yourself up off the ground if you fall, or being able to go to the supermarket yourself. And I like I know that when we talk about this a lot with shift instructors, it's like it's about Fitness for Life. It's not about smashing out like your number one rep if unless you want to. But there comes a point when you should be doing this because this is going to help you to pick up your grandchild do the gardening, all that sort of stuff when you're older. And there's actually a number of a number of things that I don't do anymore, because I know that that doesn't help my autonomy. This is why you don't see me tuck jumping quite as much as you used to.

Barb  

You're the stuff you've done with shift around that is super smart. I've seen all this, I'm in all your groups and the stuff you do for mobility and the stuff you do for range of motion. And how you do stuff for basic movement patterns. I want to tie my shoe forever. You know, I don't want to like lift my leg I want to squat down. I want to go pick things up off the ground and leave the groceries off... There's so many things that we do that we need to do every day for the rest of our lives. Yeah, and there was a time where instructors thought about just being hard and kicking someone's butt. Yeah, yeah, hard to kick someone's butt, hard and kick someone's butt and those days are gone. Yeah, they really are. So you know, know the trends, know the trends.

Will:  

Awesome Barb. Well that, so those are your five things so it is know your lane and remembering you can change and expand at any time. Know when to give your time and knowledge away for free and when to charge. Know your endgame, so making sure it's sustainable and that you can continue to do the things you love while also making money. Knowing your value and the that your worth is different to different types of people and how to appeal to those different types of groups and expand your range, and then knowing what's going to pay today to make sure that you're across the changing landscape.

Barb  

Yeah,I mean, that's probably the most important is knowing the changing landscape, you're not gonna be able to make a living right now the way you made a living a year ago.

Will:  

Yeah. So on the changing landscape point, what are your as a fellow veteran of the fitness industry? What are your predictions for 2021?

Barb  

Um, gosh, I I know for sure that the hybrid model's here to stay. I think every gym owner, I think every small box owner, every instructor needs to be prepared to do both in in gym and virtual and that can't, that's not going away. Because we, we need to meet people where they are, you know, and I think another thing is going to change to is pricing, gym pricing. So gyms now it's become so competitive, that gyms are changing their pricing structures were like a large boxes drop their prices dramatically, to entice them to come over to them. So these small boutiques, their unique selling proposition needs to be that they're clean, safe and controlled, clean, safe and controlled. You can you can say, like when I if I train at my house, I'm telling you, it's clean, it's safe, it's controlled, like those are some unique selling propositions that sometimes large boxes can't, they can be that way, but they'll have a harder time selling it. So those are my those are really my things is it's going to be a hybrid and the small boxes are really going to have to do a lot of convincing that they are what people need. You know, if these small gym owners plan on staying in business, because it's gonna be guerilla marketing out there.

Will:  

Yeah, totally. And like, we we are, unfortunately, and I would wish that were further along, we are still in the depths of the pandemic, at this point when it comes to lock downs and everything and, and it's going like the real rough ride, I think is going to be reopenings when businesses that have kind of put themselves into dormancy have to start again. And they have to find the money to pay people because at the moment, like you can kind of just like go, okay, like a bit like hibernation, right? We're just going to hibernate and we're going to cut that cost down. And we're going to just try and ride this through. But it's when we reopen and things are slow and a status start that it's going to be tough.

Barb  

You know, that kind of goes back to that point is when do you work for free? Would you not work for free? So I would probably work for free for two weeks to help some guy get started knowing I have a job there. Yeah, so that goes back to none, but don't take don't just do it for free habits, have some negotiations, like I'll help you out for the next two weeks. But then I have to get this amount, this amount, this many classes, like, we actually have a lot of power right now, for the first time in history. We actually have a lot of power, we usually we don't. But we're in a really good position right now. Because a lot of people have left the industry. You know?

Will:  

You know what I actually spoke to a, a colleague, a Group Fitness manager who's in Brisbane, Australia, where they've reopened back up and he said that one of the biggest struggles he's finding is getting, and this is this isn't -- so this is interesting. In Australia classes have come back with a vengeance. They didn't really, I feel that in the Northern Hemisphere, we've been a little bit more impacted by COVID than people were in New Zealand and Australia. So take that with a grain of salt. But what he said is that during lockdown, people were like, shit, like, this is not something that is a sustainable career, and they've gone and they've, they've done other things. And so now they're not available to teach those classes. And so he's actually struggling. So I don't know quite where we're gonna land out. But for sure, there's going to be less classes available. Like that's just a reality, because timetables are going to be a little bit lighter. But the other side might be that unfortunately, people have had to leave the industry. So good people are going to rise to the top. And there's going to be a little bit of infighting. So yeah, a good time to if you are a valuable instructor and people want you to know what you need from them.

Barb  

It's a good time to be an instructor. It's a good time, but stay on your toes, man.

Will:  

Yeah, if you're still here now, if you still an instructor in 2021, if you've made it through 2020, it's a good time. Perfect, thank you so much.

Barb  

Thanks, Will.

Will:  

Bye. I hope you enjoyed my chat with Barb, I promise some wise tips. And there were so many in there. But there were three in particular that stuck with me. The first is know your value. Anyone who was watching at the start of the pandemic would have seen so many instructors giving away so much value for free. We all understand why people were doing it. They wanted their users to stay connected. They want it to be giving something to people who are struggling with lockdown, but it serves no one if you're unable to pay your own bills, because you're giving away things that have value for free. I know who that charging can sometimes be a really difficult conversation. But it's important for everyone in the industry that we really do create value for our members value for our customers but that we're confident enough to know what this value is and when we should be charging. The second point that I really loved was no your end game. If instructing is your main source of income, then you may need to face the fact that you could be one serious injury away from losing it forever. So you need to think about expanding your repertoire into roles that complement this. But don't solely rely on your teaching 100% to survive. We've talked about this a lot on the podcast already, including in my chat with Bevan. The reality is that if you are a group fitness instructor, at some point, you're not going to be able to teach 20 classes a week. Ask yourself, what am I doing to create a second stream of income? How am I utilizing the skills that I've developed to create a career that can last past the point when I'm teaching all these classes, there are so many skills that you're developing, but you really do need to think laterally. Don't wait until an injury or someone else takes that choice away from you. Start planning for it. Now think about what makes you happy. Think about what you'd like to do. Think about your end game and work towards it while still teaching classes. Use all that time in front of other people building a network and building connections to understand what your next step might be. And lastly, but certainly not least, you've got to keep up with the changes in the industry and always have a learning mindset. But here's where I've got some great news for you. If you're listening to this podcast, then you already know the value of learning. So take a minute to pat yourself on the back for investing time in yourself and your career. Thank you for listening. If you're enjoying the show, don't forget to subscribe for all the latest episodes wherever you get your podcasts. And while you're there, please drop us a review. You can also get in touch with me at will@sh1ftfitness.com. I'm Will Brereton and you've been listening to Group Fitness Real Talk.