Chris:

There's no longer just like a FitPro being good just with like, you know, from the neck down. You know, just like training people and understanding just like nutrition and training and being a good trainer, like you have to understand the game of like the neck up, which is basically, you got to know how to like communicate with people, you got to know how to like, have like good energy, good vibes with people and relate with them. And then you have to be very good at marketing, storytelling, sales, because that's where everything's at online -- is social media, right? And it's a whole different ballgame than in person. So you can't use excuse anymore. Like I'm not a good marketer, and like, I'm afraid of sales, you can't. If you do, you're going to lose the game. So you might as well just right now, reframe your mindset to be a fitness marketer first in that you're serving people, you're not selling. 

Will:  

Hey, I'm Will Bereton, founder of Shift Fitness. And this is Group Fitness Real Talk, a show about how to survive and even thrive in Group Fitness in 2021 and beyond. Have you managed to make it through 2020 but feel like you are just holding on? Or maybe you're feeling a bit lost or are motivated about how to grow your group fitness business in 2021. We're, on the other hand, are you raring to go and looking for some top tips that will help you in your journey? No matter how you're feeling right now, today's episode will be really useful. My guests are brothers and business partners, Chris and Eric Martinez. These guys have a great story. Their background is as PTs but they've since launched a coaching business for fitness professionals. They've gone on to help 1000s of fit pros build their own successful businesses, and they're here on the podcast today with their top tips for success. We cover everything from self limiting beliefs and reframing your mindset to more practical tips like how to price your offering and how to win more clients. It's definitely worth having a pen and paper handy as you're gonna want to write some of these tips down. So let's get on to my chat with the Martinez brothers.

Will:  

Right, Chris and Eric Martinez, welcome to the podcast. How are you guys today? 

Eric  

Will, how you doing? Here it's Friday. And you know, it's cold over here. I know before we hit record, you said that it's your guys's summer, but it's cold over here in Dallas, Texas. But other than that, I like to say too, too blessed to be stressed. 

Will:  

This is good. This is good. To anyone that's listening to this you won't be able to tell. But I was just complaining that I'm dripping in sweat because of summer in Auckland. And then I realized that I was complaining about being in a country with no COVID in the middle of summer. And so I should really just...

Eric  

Lucky, lucky you. 

Will:  

So how are you guys finding the start of 2021?

Eric  

It's interesting. I mean, over here in the States, there's been a lot of like controversy with like the presidential election. I'm sure you guys are aware with that. And for some reason, like it just had to happen the first week of 2021 where everyone's a little bit excited just

Will:  

Right, everyone's setting their intentins and being very... 

Eric  

Yeah, like some craziness, some craziness went down on Wednesday. And just again, like everyone's attention span went to that and just, I don't know, it's just very frustrating. 

Chris  

It's like, whatever hope they had it just -- deflates them again. 

Will:  

Yeah, I mean, I've seen I've seen all the memes is like 2021. Yeah, so not not the most ideal start to 2021 from a kind of Global scenario. But how are you guys focusing on what you're gonna do in 2021 for your business? 

Chris  

Yeah, I mean, we're I honestly like I humbly say this like that, I think we're fine just because we, we prepped so much for the past month, like for this upcoming like literally first quarter. And that's what we teach our students is like preparation is key, you know, the cash flow follows a calendar, right? So like, literally for a month we were working on our calendar, like our marketing calendar or projects like what are we going to come out of the gate in the next eight weeks, and just be locked and loaded in focus in this way. Our intentions are set straight, we know what to do and if like things don't go the way they do. Okay, great. You know that that's our responsibility. Those are our decisions, we own up to that, we go back to the drawing board and that's just how you keep doing it. Yeah, our big motto is just control what you can and don't stress what you can't.

Will:  

Yeah, that's definitely a good approach to have in the last year and a half right? Like fitness is obviously very much a an industry that's geared around January. How are you finding yours and your clients businesses as we come into what is usually the busiest time of the year? Like how has it been changed or impact to this year? 

Chris  

Yeah, I think it has been change for sure. You know, because we were even talking about this at the gym today that to where like, you know, in the past trends like this was like an exciting time for like a lot of our students and fitness professionals because it's January, everybody's like New Year's resolution. But this year, obviously things are different because the whole landscape of the fitness industry is changed to where people got forced into like, you know, like doing workouts at home or over zoom or, you know, modality based training where they're buying things like the the tonal like the mirror, like, you know, like peloton and so, everybody's doing stuff in the comfort of their home. So I think fitness pros aren't ready for this. They're not taught this in organizations. They're not taught this in books. They're not they're just really not prepped for this, you know, so I think they're just kind of like in quicksand and just waiting to see what other people do or what kind of like trend comes on or something like that. But, you know, it sucks, man it really is. It's it's a shitty situation for them. But that's why some of these fit pros need to be invested in programs like even what the ones we say. And I say this humbly, because you have to sit there and you know, do something about it, you know what the landscape is now you know, what the year is going to look like? Most likely, you have to take action, do something about it, or you're gonna get left behind or choose another profession, you know?

Will:  

A lot of people have right? I have a colleague in in Brisbane, Australia. So he is a group fitness manager. And he was saying that it and they only had like a short lockdown, right? Like, it's not like the rolling set of lock downs that we've had in the Northern Hemisphere. But the number of people who just realized that, and this is Group Fitness, rather than Personal Training, but teaching classes, he's struggling to find people to fill his timetable, because people kind of when this was a fun, easy career, that got really difficult and not fun really fast. And a lot of people dropped out. And some of the ones that were working full time when they realized it was kind of a precarious career to have, switched to other careers in general. And are now no longer in fitness. 

Chris  

Yeah, yeah, I agree. Yeah. And that's the thing, though, like, you know, fit pros just think that, you know, oh, I'm gonna try something else out. And it's going to be easier. Nothing's easy. You know this, well, nothing's easy, man. Everything's saturated. You know, the only thing that's easiest, like if you're an investor with deep pockets, and like you've invested in Bitcoin, or like zoom or something like that, right. But yeah, that's not the norm. You know what I mean? So it's just, it just shows like, who is like really in this, like, you know, this fitness industry who wants to stay in it, who wants to serve who wants to help people out, make a difference? And who doesn't? 

Eric  

Yeah, and most most professions, whatever it is, it's now it's all about digital currency, and just making money online, right? So you got, you have to know that the skill sets on how to make money online, and a lot of that just, you know, personal branding, marketing, you know, just delivery, system structures, everything. So it's just one of those things where it's, you're gonna, you're gonna struggle in another area, it's not gonna be like, just like sunshine and rainbows. 

Will:  

So for the purposes of the guys, listen to this, I have had the pleasure of listening to your audiobook this week, because I've been prepping for this podcast. But why don't you take the listeners through a little bit of what you guys do and who you're here to serve? 

Eric  

Yeah, absolutely. I always like to start tuning. I appreciate you listening to the book. And, yeah, that's an interesting one, because we released that, like, I want to say around May of 2020, just right when the pandemic...

Will:  

That was the question I was going to ask. There was a section on hybrid fitness, which was, which seems very, very kind of, like forward thinking and prescient now. 

Eric  

Yeah, yeah. Well, we can we can delve into that in a little bit. But I'd like to take just like, you know, people back into like, our backstory, just because even if there's like one person listening, going through this, it could really help them and inspire them. So Chris, and I lost our father at the age of 18. So this was, you know, 17 years ago, literally, we grew up in a really picture perfect life and family. You know, my father was a correctional officer at a prison in California. So he was very just, like, strict on us all about work ethic, education, very good, just like family oriented person. He was like our mentor everything. And we lost him three nights before Christmas, I remember getting a knock on the door, you know, and it was, like two in the morning. And you know, there's a there's a priest and then a California Highway Patrol officer there at the door. And that's not a good combination, you know, at two in the morning, and I never, I thought I was just like dreaming, and just like, it wasn't real. And then I saw my mom just screaming on the floor, because they had told her that he fell asleep behind the wheel. So right then and there, you know. Yeah, I remember going back and looking in the room seeing if he was there, and he wasn't. So it was actually, you know, it was a nightmare that just that that happened and tragedy. So right then and there, our whole life kind of just went into like a 360. And then after that my mom, you know, lost her mother due to cancer three months after she lost her husband. So my mom really spiraled and went to turn to alcohol, to antidepressant pills to where I feel like we lost a lot of our mom where we didn't recognize her, she wasn't the same person. So Chris and I being kids, like 18 years old, we are very lost, you know, we lost so much. And we didn't know how to deal with that type of grief and adversity to where we had so much anger in us to where we turned to alcohol ourselves. We got in fights, we got arrested, because it was all just pure anger. That's not how we were raised. But after that, we went through the motions and just like went to college, got our BA, because that's what our father wanted. He was all about going to school and finishing that and then yeah, but really turn our life around was the gym, you know, going to the gym, lifting weights, you know, just alleviating stress there seeing body compositional changes, getting really into Nutritional Sciences. And then we hired Dr. Lane Norton, which was one of our mentors, big fitness pioneer, he took us under his wing, and we learned all of his methodology saw that he was going online 10 years ago. So we're like sponges. And we're like, there's two of us. You know, we're like, we're asking so many questions, seeing everything he did. And we saw the mistakes he made. And we're like, there's two of us in like, we're like, we can do this too. So we got all of our certifications, all that and then started our business Dynamic Duo training, which was literally a decade ago, and then, you know, worked with 1000s of clients and change their lives. And in the last three years, we've pivoted to B2B coaching and just helping fit pros through Dynamic Fit pros. And that's kind of our backstory on how we got into, you know, coaching personal trainers. 

Will:  

Awesome. And so, you just you said that the book that I was listening to which we're going to talk more about because there's some strategies in there, I think it'd be really useful for people listening to this. So what prompted you to write the book? 

Eric  

Yeah, I think that that the biggest thing was just that we had so much experience, like, you know, after working with 1000s of clients through our first business, Dynamic Duo training to where we actually ran like the hybrid model that to have in person and online, so -- 

Will:  

and when did you start doing the hybrid style of delivery? 

Eric  

Yeah, back around 2011 to 2012. 

Will:  

Okay, so you were a way early adopter, you were totally ahead of the curve. 

Chris  

Yeah, there's another story too. Like we can get into it. Like when we were in Orange County, I think 2014-2015, we invested into a gym like at our home for $10,000. And that was the plan to even do the hybrid model, even hire like subcontractor trainers and test it out then. But then that's a whole other story. We had to sell everything and all that. 

Eric  

Yeah. And I just think that we saw a lot of like, the pain points and just like frustration from personal trainers, to where, you know, yes, there's pressure to go online, because that's where things were pivoting. But we're like, you know, what doesn't all have to be online, I mean, nothing's gonna ever replace human human interaction of one to one personal training. So we're like, we could do two of these, right. And we've seen it work with a lot of our students that we had. So we're like, Alright, let's, let's put out a book, but a book to the world, and just like really just teach people frameworks concepts and how to do this. 

Chris  

Yeah, I think it was also we saw people like preaching, like just go solely online, like Eric said, and we didn't want to go down that route, you know, we want to be a little bit different, like just carve a little bit of a different like niche in the market. 

Will:  

You know, it's really interesting, actually, because a lot of the a lot of the kind of, you know, forward thinking predictions of 2021 are beginning to come out. And so I've been reading through all of the all of the people on LinkedIn, and seeing what their predictions of the year are gonna be. And it's a lot about, like, will in person fitness come back? Is it all going to be digital? And I think that because people are writing articles that are about click bate-y, and they want people to read them, the headlines that can be quite kind of gym's never coming back, digital is where it's at. But I think the reality is, is that it's just going to be both right? Like, it was going to be both anyway. And this whole period of COVID has just sped up a transformation that was happening anyway. It's just that now everybody understands that they can, they can take fitness content, digital, both by giving it digitally, and, you know, consuming it digitally. And so it's broken down a whole lot of barriers that kind of existed before just because it was unfamiliar.

Chris  

Yeah, absolutely. I think also to just like, what this is come down to is like, there's no longer just like a fitpro being good, just with like, you know, from the neck down, and just like training people and understanding just like nutrition and training and being a good trainer, like you have to understand the game of like the neck up, which is basically you got to know how to like communicate with people, you got to know how to like, have like good energy, good vibes with people and relate with them. And then you have to be very good at marketing, storytelling, sales. You know, I know you want to get into this, but you have to, because that's where everything's out online and social media, right? And it's a whole different ballgame than in person. So you can't use excuse anymore that like I'm not a good marketer, and like, I'm afraid of sales. You can't if you do, you're going to lose the game. So you might as well just right now, reframe your mindset to be a fitness marketer first, and that you're set. you're serving people you're not selling, right. Yeah, that was one that was actually one of the Yeah, just re listen to podcasts. And I think that's a really great message because you forget sometimes, yeah, I mean, selling at its highest level serving. At the end of the day, if you reframe your mindset like that, there's nothing sleazy, there's nothing sneaky about it, you're just helping people solve a problem with your own unique gift and talent that you have as a fitpro. And if more people looked at it like that, they wouldn't be afraid to sit there and get out there more. 

Eric  

And what you're really doing as a fitness professional is you're selling hope, accountability and certainty to your clients. 

Will:  

Yeah, for sure. And like you are reaching parts of the community that need something and you're doing good. And so you know, there's so many jobs you could have were like to make a buck, you're doing some stuff that probably isn't that good for individuals long term. But fitness is one of those things where you know, it's all it's all good, like it helps the person you're helping it helps society, it helps the healthcare system, it helps like the whole planet is great. 

Chris & Eric  

Exactly, exactly. 

Will:  

So I mean, that's a good segue into something that I really wanted to talk to you guys about. Because we have spoken a lot with our instructors and other instructors and on this podcast about going hybrid. And then understanding that you know, the future is going to be somewhat digital, somewhat in person. People had a little bit of resistance to that. But as the pandemic has dragged on, more and more people have taken the plunge. And I think that a lot of instructors that listening to this are in a position where they've figured out their platform, they figured out their delivery, what they're really struggling with are two things in particular, and we get these questions sent to us a lot and that is how do I market myself and build my list and how do I go about packaging and pricing what I'm doing so those are two areas that I know you guys have expertise in that I'd love to sort of delve deeper into. Maybe we can start with the like how do you market yourself and how do you build a list, if you're coming from a position where the gym did it all for you.

Eric  

Yeah, great, great, great topics, I'd love to like tackle the first one, I'll let Chris do the second one. But we teach to our fitpro students is an acronym called AMO. So it's audience, messaging and your offer. So AMO, that's one thing to really, it's really easy to remember. So you know, when you're going to market yourself, especially online, you got to really identify who your audience is like, what's your niche? What's the target audience, like the age range? Like, what are their actual pain points? Is it, do they need to lose body fat? Is it confidence, it looked better in their own skin? Is it moms dads, get really clear with the audience? And just like the target, the target of it? And just what is their specific pain points, right? And then what are your solutions? How do you sit there and really get them out of pain? And that's where the messaging comes in, right? Where you're talking about, like your methodology, you know, maybe it's keto, maybe it's paleo. Maybe it's flexible dieting, maybe you do CrossFit, maybe it's bodybuilding style, you talk about, you know, that method that you get them out of that pain from point A to point B, that's where the messaging comes in. And they're like, oh, man, like you're like speaking right to me. So that's the the art of like, copywriting of just like, talking on video, and to really display that. And then the offer comes down to what is your offer? is it like? Is it like a four week plan? Is it eight weeks? Is it a longer length? I mean, you know, was is it like monthly, just like just like, monthly pricing? Is it just like all in full? I mean, is it continuity? Is it just you know, you got to get really clear on just what the offer is. 

Will:  

So you guys are big on niching down to a particular audience. That is that? Absolutely. So I think this is really interesting, because another thing that Griffin is instructors have if they're going digital as they're seeing, you know, peloton is $19.95 a month and Apple fitness classes like $9.95 a month, and they are real general products, and they're for everyone. They have these enormous libraries that an individual instructor can't compete with. And a lot of the discussions that we've had with other people is about niching down and finding out who you're there to serve. And also not worrying about all of the all of the sort of all you can eat massive companies that are providing fitness because if you can figure out who the sort of hyperlocal or sort of closely geographic or heavily niche down market that you're trying to appeal to understand what your offer is, in terms of, as you said, motivation, coaching, community, all that sort of stuff. So how do you how do you think you figure out how to best go about figuring out what your niche is? What do you advise your students? 

Chris  

Yeah, I mean, like for what we do is like literally figure out step one is like who your core market is, right? And that could be somebody that's like, either wants to do like, athletes, general population, corrective exercise, or just somebody that's like in like bodybuilding or, you know, physique, sports, right? Those are core markets. So you got to pick that first and understand your core market, then the second step is your your sub market, right? So from there, for example, if it's a, you know, general population, maybe it's like fat loss, right, maybe it's somebody that loves looking for fat loss and wants to lose 10 to 20 pounds, maybe it's a dad, where it's like, he has a dad bod, 20 pounds, and he wants to get back into shape. So that's like your sub market. And then you've got to figure out your niche right from there. So it's like, what do you do like differently to help out that dadbod right there that's from that sub market? specialty specialty, right? Your method and stuff like that, that's different from anybody else. So if you start off with that three step framework right there. And then you figure out what Eric said the messaging, right? Like, what are the pain points that the dad bod is facing, you know, what is his fears, his wants, his desires, his relief that he wants? Then you critique that on social media through content creation, whether it's an article, you know, a video, a podcast, whatever it is, and like you said earlier, catchy headlines, right to grab their attention. That's how it all begins to really market yourself. But where people make mistakes is they just speak to the masses, and there's no specialty, there's no specific pain point. They're just speaking to everybody, instead of like, literally to a small handful, like 100 people, which they should be, you know, because you don't need to talk to millions of people. 

Eric  

Yeah, and just really quick to add on that, it's like when you're speaking to the masses, like you look at this as an analogy of like, you're throwing a fishing pole into a huge lake, when you want to be throwing the fishing pole into like a smaller pond, right with like, just a smaller niche. And that is going to be so much easier to talk to someone like that other everyone's chasing like this huge vanity number of 1000s of hundreds of 1000s of people when it's like, oh, look for your 100 perfect people serve them. If they sit there and continuously pay you, you'll do very well. 

Will:  

Yeah, for sure. I don't know where I heard this, but the same was sort of a few. If you try to be for everybody, then you end up being for nobody. 

Chris  

Exactly. Oh, yeah. And it's something like Seth Godin talks about his like, minimal viable audio, or sorry, he is his smallest viable audience, it's just that small amount of people that you look for, you know, right. 

Will:  

And if you get them in and you service them properly, and they become sort of customers for life, then you don't have to stress too much about constantly acquiring new customers, right? Because you've got exactly, exactly, yes. Yeah, so this is where I wanted to go to actually you've so you've niched down you understand what your audience is and you but your audience is currently small and say you need to you need to go from kind of 10 regular, regular customers to 50 or 100? What's what are the best sort of tactics for taking a small committed audience that is loving what you're doing? and using that to leverage into slightly bigger audience? What like, what would you advise people do? 

Chris  

Yeah, I mean, from there, that's a whole different kind of like machine that you're getting into. So like there's a force that framework we take with our students to where literally, it starts with like the traffic, right. So now that you have like your niche, you have your audience now you can start playing the game of traffic, which there's three different traffic's like you can either create the traffic, which is like, you know, organic posts on social media, YouTube, all that type of stuff, Facebook, then the other one is you can buy traffic, right? That's paid ads on like Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, and the other one is you can borrow traffic. So that's like joint ventures, collaborations, coming on podcast, doing stuff like that. So that's step one is understanding the game of traffic, okay, from there. Step two is you have to have a lead magnet, right? Because you have to have something to offer for free in exchange for like the value, right? So because everybody needs to understand that the whole game you're playing on social media that's rented land, you don't own the traffic, right? So you want to have a lead magnet to create an email list or SMS list because you own that traffic, you don't have to pays up Zuckerberg any dollars for that. So that's the second thing is a lead magnet

Will:  

To take this back just to the people that may be thinking, "What's a lead magnet?" Can you give an example of what that might be? 

Chris  

Yeah, so that's something like somebody gives you an email for like, you know, an E book, a rapport, maybe like a quiz, maybe like a video series, a checklist, whatever it is. So then this is really short, actionable, goal oriented, like you know, something like that. So that's the second step. Once you have a lead magnet, you just test different ones. The third step is like maybe it goes into like a lower like barrier of entry to like an offer like a $27, product, $50 product, $100 product. And the fourth step is like a higher ticket type of like offer, right? So that's how you kind of just like sit there and get from like, the first like point where you're talking about to the second point to really scale it out is that four step kind of machine that you're building within it. 

Will:  

Right. And so when you have going about kind of working on a question that and this is something I think I heard you talking about in the in the audiobook was how like, do you have any special tactics for how to go about getting clients to refer your services to other clients? Or do you think it's just about over servicing them as much as possible? 

Eric  

Yeah, I mean, this is something that it's the oldest trick in the book, right referrals. And, you know, what you want to do is get people to pay, stay and refer ultimately, but if you if you're serving, you know, your current clients, so well getting them results, I mean, you have every right to sit there and ask, Hey, do you know of anybody else that could sit there and help? Or just, you know, they would want my coaching? Yeah. And to make it really easy, is you could just create the entire script for your client to sit there and give so this way, they're, that takes all the thinking out, they're not thinking like, they're like doing anything, like unethical, and it's just, it's just you helping, you know, that person helping you, you know, and ultimately, again, just goes back to serving more people. 

Will:  

Yeah -- I can't remember exactly how you said it. But I think it was a quote around the fact that if, if someone's getting results from you, and they're like, they're engaged with you, then they're gonna want to help you to reach other people. And I think that that's comes down to that whole sales thing as well, right, is that it's sometimes really hard to push yourself as a salesperson, even when the stuff that you are pushing is gonna really benefit other people. And your your users and your customers, new clients that are getting good results of you now, it just the best, the best market for expanding that out. 

Eric  

Absolutely. Yeah. And just again, nobody, a lot of like, especially personal trainers, fitness professionals are very uncomfortable with like, sell selling and sales, because we weren't taught those skills. But it's just, it's a whole nother animal. And it's like, you have to get good at selling your own product. If you don't even believe in your own product. I mean, then it's Game Over, you know that those people will sense that that you don't even understand that what's going on, or you don't even have hope or certainty in your own programming your own juice, whatever you want to call it. You have to you have to get good at that. 

Will:  

Yeah. And if you don't, then no one's going to want it either. You're going to be out of business. And yeah, yeah. 

Eric  

And imagine like displaying that on social media. 

Will:  

Yeah, exactly. So going back to the lead magnet for a second. Is there any advice you have for the guys listening to this on? Like, what type of lead magnet you're seeing work well, for your clients? 

Chris  

Yeah, I mean, the thing is, like, that's such a tough like question because we're constantly testing different lead magnets and they're just different pathways, right? But I think this acronym like helps out to like really test one out and that's like, it's called SAGE. So make a lead magnet that's short, actionable, goal-oriented and easy, right? So if you follow that framework there then you need to test out like an E-book you need to test out like a video series you need to test out maybe like a quiz you need to test out maybe like a challenge, right? Yeah. 

Eric  

And even for like fitpro so I've seen have worked really well is just like maybe like a grocery list. People like that. Even a nutrition type of book, or a recipe book. Those are very easy and digestible and just add a lot of value. I think even to like maybe just a quick little like workout, you know, demonstration like a three day body split, or with a little bit of cardio just so they get an idea of your methodology, and they're gonna want more. So I think those are three examples of like lead magnets, it could be very well done. And again, that could be done in a video form or like a PDF type of thing, right? 

Will:  

Do you think that one or other of the kind of written content versus video is better? Like, which would you? Which would you recommend? 

Eric  

That's a tough one, Will. The name of the game is testing.

Will:  

I'm not gonna I'm not gonna get an answer out of you, am I, it's gonna be no, yeah.

Will:  

Exactly, and there's probably a good lesson to write because a lot of people create something, and then it's not working and wonder why it's not working, when really, they've created it in three different ways. And then, you know, and if, I mean, not everybody understands social media marketing super well, but you can, you know, run multiple ads, at the same time, see the results with different audiences. But even if you're not that savvy, and you're someone that's literally just boosting your own content, you can just try boosting different types of content, rather than trying to boost the same one all the time, right? Or even just post doesn't even have to be boost. It can just be you know, using your organic in different ways with different styles of things. Okay, cool. So next up, I'd love to talk about your approach to how you go about pricing. Now, I know you guys mostly work with personal trainers who are probably at a slightly higher price point than a lot of the people that are listening to this, because classes just generally, you know, in a in a group fitness scenario, you're never going to probably command the same value as you can command on a one to one. But you had some interesting strategies around just how you go about pricing your own packages to make them more desirable for people to buy into. Can you maybe take us through that sort of pricing ladder? I can't remember exactly what it was, but yeah, strategies you've got for setting the price. Bearing in mind that that's it, whoever's listening to this may have to kind of adjust it for the group fitness setting. But the principles I think, stay the same. 

Eric  

Yeah, I would split test. Do both and see which one.

Chris  

Yeah, I mean, that's a great one. And like, I always like giving credit where credit's due, I didn't come up with the value ladder, we just put our own little twist to it. But it that's from Russell Brunson. And the value ladder is basically if you kind of imagine just like, I don't know, if it's called the x and the y axis, I always get those confused. But on the bottom part, though, is basically, I think it's the value and then the other one is basically the price, right? So the value ladder concept is like, let's just say the very bottom of the value ladder, you're doing just like maybe one to one coaching, okay, so there's obviously some value in there, right? Maybe you can charge like $100 a session. So then we bring the value ladder up to step two, right? So now, you're doing maybe personal training and nutrition coaching. So now we have nutrition coaching and personal training. Now the value is up more, so maybe we can charge like $300 a month now. Okay, now we bring it up to like step three. Now we're doing like, you know, accountability, check ins, motivational texts, like sleep tips, stress tips, cardio supplementation, everything, the whole entire package. Now, there's a tremendous amount of value. Now we can sell maybe like a high ticket like $2,000, or $5,000, like transformation package. So you see how that works? The more value add, the higher the price is, right? 

Eric  

Yeah, because most what most personal trainers are doing is they're basing their prices off time, as opposed to value, you know, and just that's again, what people are buying is your value. They're buying your time, they're buying coaches not coaching. 

Will:  

Yeah, and I think that like, and I think a lot of people listening to this will be working as a one on one trainer as well. And one of the other things is that I think that anyone who was previously a fitness professional, but maybe they weren't focused on PT, because they really liked teaching group fitness. Now they're teaching group fitness over a, over a digital interface. So they're now teaching on a platform, you should be thinking about doing one to one training in that regard, because there's no reason that you can't jump on that bandwagon. Now that you've got the ability to beam yourself into someone else's living room, and they're connecting with you and a group in a scenario, there's no reason you can't leverage that into one on one. And I would hope that most instructors who are doing this as a career rather than just as a hobby that they enjoy, are contemplating that as a particular way of adding value and then getting themselves further up there up that ladder. And then I think at the bottom into the curve in the group fitness scenario. And I think it calls exactly with what you guys are talking about. Like there's on demand videos. So where, you know, an instructor might record something and then make it available on a platform for someone to watch. Then there's one-way live stream and two-way live stream. And as the connection level goes up, the value goes up as well. And I think it just fits nicely into that curve. 

Chris & Eric  

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Will:  

So what particular advice do you think what what's the best bit of advice that you think you've given to your clients over the course of March 2020, onwards, like what have you seen what, what particular coaching tips Have you given that you think have had the most immediate and and and material impacts?

Eric  

That's a great question. It's a loaded question. For me, I'm always gonna go back to just breaking down self-limiting beliefs and false belief patterns, just because I think that you know, we are our own worst enemy. And now you you added on COVID the pandemic, a whole nother you know, dynamic that nobody was prepared for so much uncertainty. On top of already you have self limiting beliefs such as fear of getting started fear of failing imposter syndrome, comparison syndrome are scarce money mindset. So it's very tough. 

Will:  

Can you take us through a few of those because I think they're really interesting. And I think that this is it's funny, because I've worked for a few American companies in the past, and I find that the UK audience often is less across these terms in the US audience. And so for my people in the UK, and Australia and New Zealand, can you take us through some of those and what they might manifest as a fitness professional? 

Eric  

Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, we have a really good like, video series on this on our YouTube, it's just breaking past self limiting beliefs. But literally, like, let's say, you know, the fear of getting started. That's a self limiting belief, you know, that we all deal with, I mean, we all feel like we're gonna fail if we go and do something uncomfortable or just really put ourselves out there. Right? So it's like, how do you get past you know, that fear of failing, right, and you do that by, you know, gaining, getting accountability, you do that by being around people that you know, have the same mindset, or they're playing on the same level, you go hire coaches, mentors, join masterminds, right, that's how you do that. Another one, too, is really common is imposter syndrome. We all feel like we're not qualified enough. We're not good enough to where it's like, why would people choose us out of all the other people out there all the competition? So again, you have to condition your mindset. 

Will:  

I have the worst type of imposter syndrome, which is I have imposter syndrome, and then when someone else does something that I didn't do I get annoyed, because why did they do it and I didn't?

Eric  

That's the game. It's like almost, I always tell people, there's two little voices on your shoulders, right? Like one's gonna be the demon,, one's going to be the angel, the devil is always going to be trying to talk you out of it and just tell you, you no, you're not good enough, you're gonna fail. Like, it's too much ego, you envy and this and that jealousy, but you have to just again, conditioned yourself to get out of that and just, you know, be around, you know, other people that are going to push you take action. And then the other one that I think it's a big one is the scarce money mindset, just because, again, everyone's afraid to spend money, and they all look at it as expenses, not investments. And you have to get out of that mindset to where it's like, if you're a business owner, you have to spend money in order to make money. And I get it, we weren't taught that in school systems, a lot of our parents weren't taught that. So it's very tough. But you have to condition your mindset to look at money as a byproduct that, be abundant with it, that it comes and goes that put that out to the universe, and it will repay you that you're helping people out. You're doing something you're chasing dreams and doing uncomfortable things that will repay you going forward. 

Eric  

So thinking of that, What do you think if you're a fitness professional, and we'll take this across the board, any type of fitness professional, what do you think is the best investment that you can make in your own career? Like what like it could get? Is there a particular hardware as a software as a particular marketing you would do? Like, what would be the thing that you would invest in if you were starting again?

Chris  

Yeah, honestly, hands down. We just did a podcast episode on this, like, he's the best in the show. Should you do or what was the title it was, should we should you invest in a coach or a mastermind, and I said, if you're starting, like from scratch, and that starting phase that you need to hire a coach, you don't need like a mastermind or thing like that. You just need a coach that has done what you want. And it has the proven system and the case studies and everything to get you from point A to point B to time, collapse everything, have the accountability, have the support, and have that action plan. So you don't sit there and make so many mistakes and lose so much money. You know what I mean? And I stand by it. And so many fit pros have this pride and ego to not hire a coach that they want to do it themselves. Because I was that that was that fitpro we were that fitpro that had an ego didn't want to hire anybody. We can wear all the hats, we can do all these things, but you just can't man you just can't. Yep.

Eric  

Coaches,, mentorship accelerate the learning curve. And, again, they'll help you if they're good break past those self limiting beliefs. And the best muscle you can work on as an entrepreneur is confidence and humility. If you have confidence and humility, it's like game over if you can catch the momentum on that and keep gamifying up like every single, you know, day, week, month and year. I mean, you're going to be solid.

Will:  

Yes. That I agree. So when like, I'm really curious to know, like, what is the what, what are your most successful clients? What are they doing that makes them successful? Like, what if there's sort of if there was a client that you thought was the best one to emulate, you just think of not necessarily who it is. But what what are the attributes? What are the characteristics? And what are the actionable things that they're doing now? What could you sum them up? 

Chris  

Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't even say like, because we give our students the same tactics, the same everything, right. It's not cookie cutter or anything like that. But it's the same tactical things of end of the day, and it just would what differentiates people is just it's the action taking, and it's the fearlessness you know, and that's what I've known. Like with some of our fit pros, the ones that are, you know, making six figures and the ones that aren't making six figures. It's just they take action. They're relentless, they have a higher EQ, right? So it's like, if something doesn't go, well, then they don't get all hung up on it, they have maybe one bad day, but then they'll pick themselves back up, and they'll keep taking action, keep serving, keep doing whatever they need to do. And that's, I know that answer isn't sexy. But that's just what it's about what I've noticed, too, and entrepreneurship, like everybody has the same amount of time, you know, a lot of the tactics are kind of out there in the strategies. Yeah, there's some secret ones and higher level ones. But I mean, man, you know, it's just that it's the action takers, and the ones that are relentless and don't want to give up and just keep pursuing their dreams and just stay hungry, you know, constant learners and students. 

Eric  

Yeah, I think just take that little step further will like, with within our program, we it's a six month program, it's very intensive, but we do like eight week cycles, right? Because we want, you know, our fit pros to be very intentional, and just laser focus within eight week blocks. So we do the eighth week is like almost like a cool down slash D load where you take a break, you reflect on those seven weeks of like, all the action steps to move the needle forward in your business. And it seems to be working very well, because you're not going so far ahead. like okay, three months, six months from now, we're talking about a week's like, that goes pretty quick. But if you have a laundry list of like, really just like actionable things. I mean, you can get a lot done. Yeah. 

Will:  

Right. So it's just do it.

Eric  

Yeah. It's not the sexiest.

Will:  

No, it's not. But that's alright. Because I think I think it's also what a lot of people are learning and particularly when it comes to jumping into types of service provision that they haven't done before, which I think is something that a lot of people have had to come to terms with, like you guys have been doing a hybrid model for a long time. But there are a lot of people who just held on for sort of grim death, not wanting to make the transition, and now they've been forced into it. And there's there was a lot of jumping into the unknown with platforms and technology and styles that they've never done before. 

Chris  

Yeah, absolutely. 

Chris  

Yeah. And I was also to like, Will, what I would say is just like the the ones that are kind of separated from the other ones, and in our program are the ones that are just out there creating more content and just, you know, marketing more, and then they're not afraid to do phone sales, or zoom sales, which we teach in the program is how you sell the high ticket program, nobody's gonna go to your website and buy a one to $3,000 program. So you have to get good at phone sales or zoom sales to get them on there and actually show them the value of the program. Because people window shop, 

Will:  

Yeah, you actually said something interesting, which was that you wouldn't recommend people have a full website anymore. So can you just take me through? Why like the view of that? Because that's a question that we get a lot as well. Should it? Should I have like a full service website? Or should I just be operating off one particular social media sites or, you know, a microsite that allows us to do so maybe you could tell us what your thoughts on that are? 

Chris  

Yeah, I mean, a full on like website is like almost like an online information card these days, right? It's an online business card, and people will go to your Instagram instead and scout you out there. And it's not right. It's not wrong, but it's just they're they're going to gravitate towards like the social media and you can't do anything about it. So that's why we tell our students don't spend all this money on a full on website maybe later when you scale up. But start off with what we call money making website which is a single landing page that has a lead magnet has a video has all your social proof, your headline how you can help people out to that specific niche and market. And then that's what's built to convert because that's going to convert more because somebody goes to a website, they're going to go to all these different tabs are going to get confused. And if you have a one pager straight to the point speaking to the person, it's going to convert very, very high. 

Eric  

Yeah, and what we teach too, it's it's called a coaching application funnel, right. So it's a four step funnel. So after that one pager, they collect the email if they're interested in that piece of value, the lead magnet and the second page takes them to a thank you page where you thank them by the way, guys, you know, I'm taking on you know, fitness clients that want to lose X amount of pounds and you know, X amount of months, literally just fill out the quick questionnaire below five questions, book a call with me, and let's do this. So it's like a segment of just automation that does, you know, email collects questionnaire and data and then you know, books a call for you. So it's a simple process. And then after that, you just, you do your thing on zoom and sell them into your coaching. 

Will:  

And your clients of yours, is zoom the thing that everyone's using, using where you guys are working, or as are the other platforms that are starting to creep in. 

Eric  

Now it's either zoom or like we say at the very least phone call, but I'm always gonna say like, show your face and build that that that rapport with people. 

Will:  

Yeah, and that's for the delivery of the training as well? People are sort of doing one on ones via zoom or they are they more --

Chris  

Well that's a whole other like, kind of thing we don't teach, we're actually against kind of like the the model of like zoom coaching, because it's another, it's another broken business model that gets you into trading time for dollars. If you want to use it as like one form of a hybrid model of doing that, that's fine. But then the other form of the online component has to be a more scalable model to where it's like you're individualizing training and nutrition programs and having the accountability aspect of it, so you can take on more clients and free up more of your time.

Will:  

Right. Right. So for those of you listening to the thing of the group fitness example, this is where you record your library and make that library available and then use the one on one time to actually build rapport and create more customers, rather than trading that one class for a number of eyeballs that you can't leverage. 

Chris  

Yeah, that on demand, like should be like one like, you know, revenue stream within the whole entire fitness business, you know.

Eric  

because you're, there's always going to be your clients that want more of you more of that one to one, and they will pay more, but some won't. And that's where you should have the downsell, the continuity, where you're still, you know, giving them access to your skill set and programs, but it's not so much to your one to one time, that's your, you know, hard earned time, it's a you have to charge for that time.

Will:  

Right, and as you guys mentioned before, you're very much of the view that it's important to have levels of pricing and packaging, so that people can kind of self opt into what they want and go up or down depending on where they are. Right. 

Chris & Eric  

Exactly, exactly. Yeah. 

Eric  

And once you have a big enough audience, I mean, if you want to do like the subscription model, I mean, that's a beautiful thing, too. But that takes time, you know, to build an audience, and you can make a good revenue stream out of that. 

Will:  

So now I'd like to just ask you guys kind of as, as people within the fitness industry that work with, you know, lots and lots of fitness professionals, looking forward to 2021? What are your predictions of what's going to happen this year? Like, where where are you like prioritizing your efforts? When it comes to the New Year? Mainly just looking forward to the fitness industry and knowing what's like happened in the past year, what and what are you for seeing, like, if we would have this conversation next year? Where do you think we would be? I'm putting you on the spot. 

Chris  

Yeah, yeah, I'll take on like this one, I think there's a tremendous opportunity for a lot of fit pros, which we call virtual-hybrid. And then in-home hybrid, which is basicallym the In-Home hybrid, I think is really gonna blow up if like, the fitness professional really does this, right. And that's number one option is they can invest in some transportable equipment to be able to take to the actual clients home and train them there. Or they can have their own like, kind of like gym in their house, right? Or the client can actually have a full on gym there, right, and they just go in there and train them. And then the other side of the hybrid is all online coaching, you know, because with gyms being open shut, and people being fearful of going to gyms, and people just like adapting now to like, you know, modality based training of having like, peloton and all that stuff. Now, there's a need for that to where the trainer goes in there and teaches them how to do those type of things, you know, and trains them live like that, and still has an online component. So I think there's a tremendous amount of like opportunity for whatever fitpro wants to really carve their niche and take that on locally. 

Eric  

Yeah. And I think to like you, you have to have an online component in 2021. It's almost like we use an analogy towards like, if, if you don't have an online coaching business, like with your in person that's like, it's like imagine yourself jumping out of a plane without a parachute. You know, it's like, it's like, almost like death, you know, and especially to like, I mean, here in the States, it's just the gyms are open and close. And I know we have a couple of fitpro students in the UK where they're closed right now. So I'm like, yeah, this is what I mean. It's like you have to recession, pandemic and future proof your businesses by having an online business. 

Will:  

Yeah, for sure. Like, I think that that's one thing that hopefully everybody has gotten on board with. Yeah, there's no one's still thinking that you can survive without having a digital, a digital form of provision, if nothing else, because like even when gyms open back up, and people go back into maybe some what are the normal behavioral cycle, they're still going to travel and when they travel, they're still going to either like use your content or they're going to find someone else's and the minute they start using someone else's content, then they're potentially lost you. And there's like a missed opportunity. Right? Okay, so that's that's the industry What about you guys? What's up? What? What are your goals? 

Eric  

For us? Man, I'm always like, you know, I'm just trying to stay healthy. I'm like, more about like longevity. I'm coming off like a really bad foot injury where I tore cartilage almost tore my Achilles like a year ago and I'm getting there but for me, it's just building my strength back up and just, you know, just staying healthy and enjoying things and yeah, maybe like in a couple months I'll run like a cutting phase and drop like 10 pounds and just try and take some pictures shirtless, but

Will:  

I feel like is that January 2021, we're only like day what? Yeah. No, barely passed the first week and I think that like biting off more than you can chew now is not a good idea.

Eric  

Yeah, that's kind of my goals. I mean, I like just setting goals with like vacations or deadlines. So if I do something in the next like, you know, four or five months where I'm going on a trip or something then maybe I'll just be like, okay, let's run like an 8 to 12 week cut. Yeah. 

Will:  

So um, so tell if people want to find out more about what you guys do, where should they go, like what you've got, I know you've got a podcast as well and there's obviously your Instagram. Maybe give us your handles, etc. 

Eric  

Yeah, absolutely. Our podcast is Dynamic Lifestyle Podcast. Check that out. A lot of good stuff on there, our Instagram @ChrisandEricMartinez. And then yeah, if you guys want a copy of our book 'Rise of the Fit Pros: How To Create More Income, Impact, Influence and Independence", we're given that out for 100%, free the digital form and the audiobook. So head on over to riseofthefitpros.com/book. If you can, then you can even head on over to DynamicFitPros.com/book, and you can get the book there. 

Will:  

Sweet. And we'll link to all of that in the show notes for the episode as well. Well, Chris, and Eric, thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you taking the time. What time is it there where you are, you're only a couple of hours. But uh, you're in the past, right?

Chris  

5:47pm on a Friday night, on a Friday night.

Will:  

Saturday afternoon. So I'm gonna go and have a barbecue, but it was very nice to speak to you. And I'm sure we'll chat again soon. 

Chris & Eric  

Thanks so much, Will. Appreciate you!

Will:  

I hope you enjoyed my chat with the Martinez brothers. They had some great practical tips that I know will help a lot of you. But the thing that stood out to me was the part of our discussion around mindset and self limiting beliefs. I've worked with a lot of fitness instructors over my career. And this is actually a lot more common than you think. I will see a super confident person that shines on stage teaching an incredible fitness class. But when it comes to promoting themselves or selling their offering outside of teaching, they lack confidence and often find that selling side really difficult and really hot. And it is for most people, self promotion is really uncomfortable. And I can 100% relate. I've had a really, really long personal journey working through some of the self limiting beliefs I have around bringing what I have to offer to the world. But the reality is that to be a group fitness instructor in 2021, you need to not only be a great teacher, but you also need to know how to market yourself. So I challenge you guys that are listening to this to think about some of the self limiting beliefs that might be holding you back and really focus on how you can work through them. Do something that scares you jump right in even if you worried you aren't qualified or knowledgeable enough. And when you have some doubts, ask yourself what's the worst that could happen if I try this? And I bet that the regret you have from not trying it will always be a lot worse than what will happen if you just give it a go.

Will:  

Thank you for listening. If you're enjoying the show, don't forget to subscribe for all the latest episodes wherever you get your podcasts. And while you're there, please drop us a review. You can also get in touch with me at will@sh1ftfitness.com. I'm Will Brereton and you've been listening to Group Fitness Real Talk.