Joel :

You know, it's been it's been a journey for me on the past, I'd say five years and really the past couple of years, I think the past two years, especially just where I'm like, Alright, I think I got it. And I just feel good about it. I'm confident in it. And I think I think I'm, it's who I am. And it's who I am has definitely changed over the years in the decades. And I think that just shows growth. We all want to, we don't want to, I don't think we want to be the same person that we were at 20. I don't know, I don't want to be, I want to continue to evolve and mature and the way I learn things and keep going through stuff. But I do know that I'm just going to keep going in a direction that makes me happy. And this is the shape that makes me happy. That's my happy shape. 

Will:  

Hey, I'm Will Brereton founder of SH1FT Fitness. And this is Group Fitness Real Talk show about how to survive and even thrive as an instructor in 2020 and beyond. I was super excited to have Joe Freeman on the podcast this week. Joe is a Beachbody Super Trainer, a group fitness legend and an all around great guy. Joel has that dream job that mini group fitness instructors would love. But it wasn't by chance or luck that he got there. Today, Joe and I discuss how he went from working the graveyard shift on reception at a local gym, to being a genuine group fitness superstar. There was a lot of hard work, a lot of grafting and perseverance along the way. And Joel has some great tips to share and some brilliant insights into a day in the life of a Super Trainer. Joel and I also touch on another issue that's really important to us, and one that we covered in depth in Episode Five of the podcast and that's body image. From talking to Joel and also recounting my own experiences, it's easy to see the body image is something that all fitness professionals are faced with in their career. Joel and I would never say for a second that the pressure that we face is the same as someone else. But what our conversation does reiterate is that it doesn't matter whether you are smaller, bigger, rounder, leaner, at the top of the profession, or starting off body image issues can affect everyone, even those you least expect. I hope you enjoy my conversation with Joel.

Will:  

Sweet. So Joel Freeman, welcome to the show. How are you? 

Joel  

Good man, I'm good. I'm at home versus you, stuck in a hotel room.

Will:  

So Joel and I were just saying this is my 13th day of managed isolation in New Zealand. I'm actually dialing in from my hotel room, which is right across from a massive construction site. So I don't know if you can hear it, but I've had jackhammers and cranes and building site sounds for the last two weeks, it's been excellent, absolutely fantastic. Six days a week. Sundays off. So what time is it where you are?

Joel  

Let's see it is to two in the afternoon on Tuesday here. I know we're like we're what 8 to 10, eight or nine hours behind?

Will:  

It is it is 11am Wednesday here. So we're like a full day in the future. 

Joel  

Oh, that's right. Yeah. So I'm talking to you from the past. 

Will:  

Yes. Okay, so this podcast is actually going to be going out the week before Christmas. So it's a little bit of a Christmas podcast. So everybody listening will be getting ready to sort of see their family for the holidays. I will be doing a classic New Zealand Christmas, which is basically a barbecue. You'll actually be doing a warm Christmas too there. Right? Like it's pretty good. 

Joel  

Yeah. That's That's why we live in Los Angeles because Christmas, you know, cold for us is not cold for most people. So you know, we were wearing jackets and stuff and that would put most people in the shorts aspect of it, you know, but it's just, yeah, it's definitely it's a little chilly lately, but we can't complain at all. 

Will:  

Yeah, by chilly you mean, maybe not using the pool but still being out in the sun. 

Joel  

Right like actually having to heat the pool.

Will:  

Terrible. Sounds really terrible. So I was actually trying to think of the very first time that we met in person and I realized that I sort of knew from Les Mills Pump and the Beachbody side and the combinations there. The first time I met you was actually in a pool with a cocktail at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas.

Joel  

Yeah, I was thinking about, I was wondering that too, because we do go back aways that had been a long time. What, which, which, which was that? 

Will:  

It was the one in 2014, you were there with Jericho. I think you onstage for Les Mills combat for Beachbody? And then it was the day after the super workout. So I've been on stage with Shawn, so you know those 1000s of people. And then you had I think you had a an escort or a helper. What do they call them? 

Joel  

They call him the handlers right? 

Will:  

Handler. That's right. So you had a handler getting your drinks. And I was like, well, he's made it.

Joel  

Yeah, that's that trust me. That is the one time of year that happens that is not reality and it's everyone's like, "Oh my god, you have a bodyguard like all the time like". No dude, like, the minute we leave those events, nobody gives a crap. 

Will:  

And if I remember rightly, it was more because you have so many places to be at such specific times that while they're really there to do is I grabbed you by the year and pull you in the direction of the meet and greet, or

Joel  

because you know me, I tend to like go towards the bar, like, hey, there's what that's where the party is at. So I want to go over there. And so yeah, usually the handler, yeah, it's very good way to say it. Like they grabbed me by the ear. Like, no, you actually have to go do things you have to work. 

Will:  

So okay, that takes me to, like one of the places that I wanted to start, which is you are a super trainer for Beachbody. And you've kind of, how many programs have you done for them now? Three? 

Joel  

Honestly, yes, three, three, exclusively with them. And then obviously, the first one, the collaborative one with Les Mills, and Beachbody that would that kicked everything off with Beachbody. So but three, three exclusively for them. 

Will:  

Cool. So you were one of the core super trainers now, I've actually been doing some LIIFT4 since I've been in my hotel room, I was doing it the other day. So you occupy a position in fitness where you've gone from, you know, working in fitness and being a group fitness instructor through to what is pretty much the pinnacle of being a fitness instructor. I'm sure a lot of the people that listen to the podcast would love to know how you ended up where you are. So that's my first question. Start where you want and take us on a journey. 

Joel  

Yeah, that's usually usually the first question or the question I get a lot from people that you're getting into the fitness world or the personal trainer. They're like, man, I want your job. I'm like, Well, you know what, I? Yeah, I get it. And I wish I had a better way of saying how to get it. I really don't. But what I can say is that it has been, it's the culmination of a lot of years in the industry for one. So, 38 now started when I was 19. And I worked, it was the front desk. That's where I started. I started like everyone, a lot of people just, front desk position at a gym.

Will:  

I love that, I was a receptionist at Les Mills Auckland.

Joel  

Uh huh. There you go. Yeah, and I had the I had the 2am to 10am shift. So it was the graveyard shift, it was the middle of the night and, but that in itself kind of kicked off a lot of things because because it was the that horrible shift. And there was nobody else there. In terms of employees, I had to learn a lot of different things right off the bat, like way more than a normal, you would normally work in front desk. So like, I had to learn how to do basic maintenance on the equipment, how to sell a membership, you know how to everything, all the positions in the gym, I had to learn just for that position itself. So that itself is kind of unique. 

Will:  

I really do agree with you. We used to laugh on the front desk at Les Mills Auckland  because everybody working on the front desk was was required to know the ins and outs of every part of the gym, you'd have everyone else from the gym, come to the front desk and kind of ask a question, and you'd be doing five other things and you wouldn't be able to answer them immediately. And they get really annoyed and be kind of like you guys don't know what you're doing. It's like I know, literally everything going on in this entire gym. 

Joel  

Yeah, and that's the deal is it's you know, the front desk is the hub of it so, but you know, I had to take that next step because again, there wasn't I didn't have anybody to call if I want if somebody wanted a gym membership or canceled memberships or this is that so just from that customer service standpoint, it really put me going in the right direction, you know, from day one, and then from there just you know, front desk to morning manager to sales manager and just kind of kept moving my way up and then as I moved that was in Texas and as I moved to Washington state it was up there for eight years then again General Manager and just kept just within it and group exercise I got into group exercise. Body pump was my first program I started teaching probably in 2005 2006, maybe maybe a little bit yeah. I suck at remembering dates. But it was around then and and the whole reason I actually did it, two reasons I became a group exercise instructor number one, I realized that I was the minority and surrounded by a bunch of women. So I was like, This is great. I will totally be the only male in the class, so I was I was like okay, that works. That was the main reason, I'll be on 100% honest.

Will:  

Solid reason for getting into fitness, Joel.

Joel  

But then I also, once I did get certified started teaching, I also realized how amazing of a sales tool it was for memberships because people will come into the gym. And this was a small gym. So we didn't have we didn't have like sales consultants as a general manager. And there was one other manager, we ran that place and we sold all the memberships and all these things. So I realized really quickly that it was really beneficial for you know, new potential members coming in to invite them to one of my classes like Hey, I know you know if they weren't if they weren't too sure about joining. I'm like, hey, come on. Come, take my body pump class tomorrow morning. You'll see it. It's great. You get a great experience and then I would usually sign them up right afterwards. So I realized how big of a sales tool that was in terms of sorry, creating a, that community feeling, right. And that was really right off the bat where I knew that that was going to help get people into the gym. And then then I started enjoying it. Like, it wasn't that I didn't enjoy it, but I really started getting into it with body pump, and then body combat, and then, you know, just obviously drank the Les Mills Kool Aid, I was fully inundated into it for many, many years. And it was, it was awesome. And you know, just again, through through all those things, and this is the biggest piece of advice I always give to people is just keep having conversations, because that's what I would do, keep having conversations, make connections, and it's not about trying to get something from them, but you just never know where it leads to. And that's honestly where from doing all of that making those friends and connections in the Les Mills world got me to do those things that I was able to do and Les Mills, which was awesome. And he was invited as a trainer bootcamp for body combat and went through that and that's where I really became great friends with use of now McMathews and Jericho McMathews use and you know, Yusef was my best man at my wedding. So you never know where a lot of this can come from. And obviously then start doing stuff for you know, the the cover shots for Les Mills and their quarterly posters and things like that, that put me into Auckland doing some work over there, that put me into the casting for the collaborative project with Les Mills and Beachbody. It just was always you know, it's just it just having those conversations and having those connections. And that's really where I've, that's how I've gotten here. And then even when I was living in Washington, it was looking to kind of get out of there and come back down to LA where I'm originally from through--

Will:  

Oh, wait, so you're California?

Joel  

 originally, originally from California and my family lives here. My mom lives in Texas, which is how I ended up kind of growing up in Texas back and forth, dad lives here. Yeah, so that's how I, you know, so kind of did a long way back around, but you know, Southern California is the place to be. Yeah. Well, now, it's pretty much just weather. Uh, let's be honest. So, but it's, you know, and then through those connections I've made with Les Mills. And you know, because people will and you know, you've been this long enough, it's a very incestuous group when it comes to relationships, a business relationships, right, because so and so used to work for this company, they work for this company, and. So that's how I ended up getting the offer to come down and be the Gold's Gym group exercise director for the Southern California franchise, right massive opportunity. Took full advantage of it. And you know, 

Will:  

and that's where you were working when we met, I think.

Joel  

yeah, yeah. So that was the big thing. And by then, you know, the Les Mills Beachbody partnership had dissolved. But through Gold's Gym, I was still working with Beachbody helping them develop their Beachbody live department. So again, I was just always in the offices and having those conversations and would see the CEO and the CFO and all those people and just always having conversations. And that, honestly, is what led to the phone call in 2015, 2016 from the CEO saying, Hey, you know, you're in the network people like you, what do you think about coming and working over here, I was like, sure.

Will:  

We're talking like a good kind of decade of chipping away, trying to leverage every conversation you had every person you made, and try and, you know, like, enjoy the opportunities that you're getting, but also create steps forward for you that that got you to where you were, because I actually remember you were doing some work with Beachbody live around the time that I think you got the call up to do Quarter Force with Jericho. And obviously, I've been Jericho for years as well. And I think that to the outsider, especially with something like Beachbody where it's so big, and they put so much into their products, and they're super trainers that to a lot of people that can kind of come out of nowhere, right? But there's a lot of there's a lot of kind of just being around chipping away working, putting your hand up that goes into just getting to the position that allows you to be elevated. 

Joel  

Yeah, yeah. And there's there's years of chipping away at it. And and it's, it's, there's years of, of hardship and financial hardship and a lot of different things. And you know, and just not really always knowing the direction you're going but but knowing that for me personally, it was knowing that I was going to keep grinding and take advantage of new opportunities when they were offered up and work for them and earn them but at the end of the day, too, I truly believe is is in any business in any in any industry you're in. It's just being easy to work with and being a good person and not being difficult. And that that goes so far because, especially what we do in the fitness industry is so much customer service based. You're dealing with other people and you're working with other people and it's not just a one person show, even right now. And this is for me especially this is the probably more important than ever in my particular line of work now. Yeah, okay, I'm the face of these programs. But there are hundreds and hundreds of people on the back end that make this program make these programs possible, they're the ones that are like just even we're on set and we're you know we when we film 10 rounds for the beginning of the year we were on the road for five weeks straight that you know that amount of logistics and that that it just watching people grind their asses off and it's you know... 

Will:  

Was it shot this year?

Joel  

Yeah, we so we lucked out. We wrapped 10 rounds in Philadelphia the week before lockdown. 

Will:  

Oh, wow. Because that couldn't be part of the whole like the full sort of advertising and marketing with 10 rounds was it it was a you know, week in each city or 

Joel  

it was the whole program the whole. That was the the crazy thing was we so we wrapped filming the Thursday. And then I got home Saturday and lock down happen Tuesday. So you want to talk about we should have gone straight to Vegas. We had luck on our side on that one. But no, yeah, so we got it all done. We had there was only a couple little things left to do. We were really lucky in the fact there was were some stretching videos, we ended up just filming here at my house in the backyard. And you know, it was funny was we doing those were kind of the first videos that kind of set the the bar for what was going to come You know, for the rest of this year. So if you go back and look at those stretching workout videos in my, in that 10 rounds programming. It's a very similar setup to you know, we're kind of a guinea pig for it. So it was cool. It worked out. But I'm so glad we got the meat of the program done. And I'm so glad we did it then because honestly, I love the idea of not having to film right now because it just would be 

Will:  

Yeah, I mean, it's I actually think is crazy to think that you were filming that program this year, just with I feel like this year has been one of those ones where so much has happened. And so little has happened in different respects. Like no one's done anything themselves because they've been locked down yet so much has happened in the wider world. Like I'm surprised I actually would have thought that you filmed that last year just because it feels like so much life has happened in between. 

Joel  

I know doesn't it? Well, and the thing was suit like we, I mean, again, on the road for five weeks. Full cast and crew, tour bus, flyin around, jammin out in the bus. And then, but also, I had a lot of PR stuff to do. So you know what I would, we would wrap for instance, like I wrapped it in Brooklyn, and had to go straight to the airport, fly to do an event come back, meet everybody in Philly. So like, I was nonstop I was on the road every single day doing something and, and it was pretty crazy. Just in terms of we had, nobody gets sick, nobody, no issues. It just it was so smooth. And it really goes back to again, you know, setting that I feel as the lead on these programs of you know, my job is to set that tone and that energy while on set and everything and we just had, you know, so many people and everyone was just so great. And everyone was so grateful appreciative, we just had a blast. And I think that's how it should be. I think so many people just, they make us so serious. And all these different things I always kind of joke about when they, when someone's trying to get really serious. I'm like you guys are shooting a workout video. We're gonna we're gonna make it look, we're gonna make it awesome. There's times to be serious and stuff like that. And we're gonna take things seriously, but it's a workout video. 

Will:  

Yeah, I love that. And I, having worked in this industry for a long time having been around and I take it seriously, to a degree because I care about you know, the people that I'm working with, I care about the people in class like, you know, this was, at the end of the day, it's a group fitness workout, or it's fitness workout, right? Like, don't take it so seriously. It's supposed to be fun. The only way people stick in something is if it's fun. And if you're too serious, then you just strip the fun out of it. 

Joel  

I think so. Absolutely. Absolutely. I just can't, I have zero interest in doing that. Like, it's, you know, we got we got one chance of this and so we're gonna I'm gonna make it fun. Damn it. 

Will:  

I think that's probably one of the things that I know that like I know talking to people that do your workouts. And that's one of the reasons that I go back to your workouts because I just like the fact that it's chill and fun and a little bit of a love so that definitely one of the things that I think people really get drawn to with your workouts. So tell me, quarter fours, first one you're going from, you get the call up. And then you go into you know, the planning phase. Tell me about how that how you all sort of day to day life changed when you first got the call up into doing a Beachbody program. 

Joel  

It was a big it was a big transition for us. And when I say us, it was for Jericho and I because for both of us. We had to go we had to go in, it was all or nothing. We were neither one of our jobs, I mean working me working for Gold's, Jericho for working for Les Mills. Yeah, those those jobs wouldn't have allowed us to do both. And that's usually how it works. A lot of times when you kind of come up and you're a first time programming trainer, you're usually doing your other jobs as well. And most of the times like personal trainer or something like that, yeah, we couldn't. So we had to have that conversation with Beachbody said, hey, look, we'd love to but we got to go all in on this and we made the agreement financially 

Will:  

and people don't realize what you guys need to do right because you need to be there for the planning and then you need to do all the filming, the test groups, the ambassador work. Like it's not just turning up and filming one hour a day. 

Joel  

No, no, again, it's, it's it's it's a minimum. Usually anywhere between bare minimum six months, typically about a year. Sometimes more and Quarter Force was ended up in a be more than a year. It was just kind of the way it worked out was you know, we did it. And then Jericho was like, oh, by the way, I'm pregnant. We're like, Oh, 

Will:  

I forgot that she was pregnant. 

Joel  

Yeah. So my little nephew Beck's was like popping up right at the time there. So we I mean, we I would go down this when they still live down in Laguna, you know, I would drive down there from from LA. And that's where actually where we started the original, you know, big three and pieces of paper up on the wall and started working down there when she was pregnant. Then she had Becks. And by that point, they have moved a little bit closer, over three cities. So I would go over there. And while she was on maternity leave, we were still kind of, we were still working just on layouts and ideas and this and that and sketching it out. And then pretty much after maternity leave, we went right into test group and design and you know, test group is it was a third, you know, quarter force was a 30 day program. And so usually with 30 days, you do a couple rounds. So you could see potential, we did three rounds, we had 90 days, a test group in Jericho. And I, especially as the beginning traders, you're definitely earning your chops as well. So he taught, we had with a test group in the morning, a test group in the evening in June, I taught every single one for 90 days straight. 

Will:  

I remember that I think I was in the office a part of that.

Joel  

Yeah, and it just was it was phenomenal. And you know, definitely leaned on a lot of each other. And obviously I, you know, she was, you know, I can't even imagine what she was going through new mom, this and that. So I tried to have her lean on me as much as possible. And yeah, and we made it and it was challenging. And you know, there was a lot of and there was even a lot more stipulations and requirements at the time, because that was also still when we were doing things on DVD. And when you're doing things on DVD, you're limited to disk space. Yeah, so you can only have so many DVDs and this and that. So that comes into you, you only have so many workouts and so many times, it was just a bunch of shit I'd never even thought of.

Will:  

That's actually really interesting, because I would love to hear. So I've like spoken a lot on this podcast and with some consulting work that I've been doing about the shift to the shift in technology and how it's changed the way that we consume fitness. And one of the biggest things I've seen with Beachbody and I saw it with 10 rounds, I think extra for the 10 rounds. And one of the seminars that I gave this year is that it used to be that you know, like I think of p90x that it was you know, 90 days worth of programming, but I think it was only 12 disks. So maybe it was notice but you know, it was basically you know, like 16 workouts over 90 days that you cycled through. Whereas now because everything is is on demand, and you can put it up onto Beachbody on demand and just you know, like pull your workouts streamed or downloaded to your device when you want to do it. Now it's all kind of shot in real time. And so you're actually how many workouts were there in 10 rounds. 

Joel  

So there were -- i got i gotta do the math on this. So six weeks, five, five different workouts a week. So 30. So 30 workouts that we shot in real time. 

Will:  

Yeah, so you did 30 individual workouts, whereas in the old days, that would have been maybe 15 workouts.

Joel  

Yeah, it would have been most likely it would have been for a six week program. We I would have shot nine boxing if we're lucky. Yep. That you would just say you would do like two, two of them and repeat them twice. Yeah, three, and then move on to the next day and move on to the next two. And then the lifting workouts, you'd be lucky if you could shoot four. So it definitely has opened up from going from disk space. It's definitely opened up the creative avenue where we can really play with the programming and I'm such a programming junkie like on an Excel. 

Will:  

Yeah, you can make small tweaks every workout rather than having to have like two sets, right? 

Joel  

Yeah, and still keeping you know for LIIFT4 for and LIIFT4 was a great transition for me to go from from what we did in quarter force into lift four and lift four was definitely I was so amped to do a program like that, because that was really what I kind of had envisioned long term live saying, hey, if I ever get the chance to do my own program, yeah, this is what it would look like and the four days a week I think was really beneficial and and that all came from years of working in the gym industry of going off of all the barriers that people had to 

Will:  

exactly knowing that people aren't really like a lot than likely to do seven workouts a week right? 

Joel  

Yeah, or even come in you know, so that was so it really all this time in the gyms has I know 100% helped me in creating these programs because I I've been in the trenches so to speak, and seeing what those barriers were to people that people had in terms of number one barrier to working out is I don't have the time and then you know, they have to drive they have to do this they have to do that and so long, so that's really where live four came from, I thought about all those you know, excuses and barriers and issues that people have and then actually just create a program that addressed them and even in design itself I mean, you said you've done it and you know fitness, you know you like a simplistic it's very simplistic hypertrophy training, three sets of 10, just go basic, and not a lot of you know, multi compound movements like let's just go weightlifting one on one, let's go back to the days where you know, we know what what works and simple and simplistic get into it. There's your science that increases caloric burn and bam, that was LIIFT4

Will:  

The thing I like about it is that it? Sure and I have been in since I've been like in the places that I've been living have been in lockdown. So basically for six months of this year, I haven't been able to attend a gym and I like I love working outside I love working out in gym. I love lifting heavy, but if I'm working out at home, I like to just keep it simple and get a sweat on and feel like I've done something and that's why I like LIIFT4 because I feel like okay, I did shoulders today and then I did you know a good 10 minutes with him at the end. I feel like I sweat I got my calories in come out the door. Yeah, well you're out the door as the case may be allowed

Joel  

To go look at the door and wish you could go outside. Yeah, but and that's it. That was really it for me, I wanted to make something that would again, be simplistic and effective I in every time for lift for and 10 rounds. Big thing we always have up on the board is when we're in meetings and stuff like I always go up to the board and just write KIS, keep it simple. And you know, we've done, a my team, I've had the same team, Beachbody for, for live for and for 10 rounds. It's definitely a dream team and we work so well together just because everyone wants to do that. And, you know, we always talk about is when it comes to these programs, like I'm not creating these programs for people who are already working out when I'm going after the you know that 80% or more of population that are not working out. And so you know, what do we got to do? We gotta we gotta do. We gotta break down those barriers. We're gonna I want someone to look at this to say, that doesn't look intimidating. That doesn't look scary. That looks like fun. 

Will:  

So I have a question for you on the on the filming side. And that is do you find better? The old school style where you used to film a small number and repeat them or do you like filming in real time? 

Joel  

I love real time. 

Will:  

I knew you were gonna say that I have to say. 

Joel  

I hated I hated doing the filming. You know I that's super polished look at Yeah, it's not me. 

Will:  

I'm totally on the same page as you.

Joel  

Yeah, some people love it and some people excel with it. In essence, it just works for them. I am not. like I think that comes you know, you can you can attest to this. It comes from that world of teaching group exercise when you are in the moment you feel the energy and, and it's a little bit different. Don't get me wrong, because now you're not getting a lot of energy from a camera. But you can still feel the energy in the room. If you have a cast or you're just feeling the workout. You're just feeling the vibe. And you know, you lose that when you have to cut, reach shoot this part. Okay, we'll do a pickup over here. So in LIIFT4 and 10 rounds, we didn't cut. Yeah, 10 rounds. I know, I know we cut we only cut like twice. And that's just because the boys, both Mike and Gabriel in separate instances cramped up so we had to give him a few minutes to get going. But you know, it was minimal. And we just picked right up where we started, or we left off and there was no like reshoot or anything like that. It was just you know, 

Will:  

and I think people resonate with that, right? Like when you're when you're doing the workout and you see someone making a mistake and you go, That's alright, just keep going. It just feels so real. And I think that is a real shift away from that perfect polished everyone doing it correct. Now that you know everyone's got a smartphone, there's YouTube regular just storying you're much more used to people not being super polished when they're doing any type of video content. And that's washed over into that there's I think, in that being authentic and being real and feeling like you're actually connecting with real life people doing real life workout feels better as a participant than seeing someone do a perfectly choreographed routine that they have practiced and said 10 times before they actually go to do it. 

Joel  

There's a huge I think there's a huge difference of people feeling that they're being talked to versus getting talked at. You know, and that's, that's, I think, kind of the old school way it goes nothing wrong with it, it's, I think it just you can just see the difference. It's like watching a movie from the 80s versus watching a movie now you just see how, how technology and how things have changed. And but I think from a fitness perspective, yeah, you're absolutely right. It's, it's, it goes back to that whole thing of back in the day was just that sense of belonging. And I think, you know, if we can, if you can get somebody, if you can get somebody at home to feel like they're a part of what they're watching on TV, through a screen, or through just through a screen, I think that's, that's huge. And that's definitely what I strive for when I'm when I'm filming these programs, for sure. 

Will:  

So that taking that point about kind of how fitness has changed and where things are going. And obviously, the advent of social media, I really wanted to talk to you about your approach to your socials, which I've been sort of noticing, you know, a small change, and it's not a change. And so far as I know, I've known you for a while, and this is definitely how you are. But you've started to be much more upfront about the realities of you as a fitness person and how you go through, you know, cycles and normal cycles that I think everybody goes through. And the reason resonates with me is that I've been in fitness for a long time. And I really understand this as well. And you know, I'm 39, so I'm a year older than you, we're around the same age, we've been in fitness the same amount time. And that is appreciating that you have a you've developed a happy shape. And I think that's referred to it as right, the happy shape. And a happy shape is the shape when you're working out, you're keeping healthy you're reading all right, but you're also just not stressing about being ultra lean or looking a certain way. So obviously, as a Super Trainer, you have periods where you are working out all the time, you know, you're doing test groups, and then you're filming. And then there's obviously photoshoots, where you know, there is an expectation that you will look like the product is a buy, you are a product of the product. But then when you're outside of those periods, you know, you're keeping active and I see the stuff you're doing on social media, you know, you're surfing, or you're going to bike riding or you're doing some adventure travel, but you're living life. So tell me a little bit about how that how you've gone have gone on that journey and where the happy shape concept came from. 

Joel  

Yeah, it's it's definitely been a journey. It's definitely been a personal journey. I think over the past I'd say five years. As you know, we've gone through and figuring out what it is from a positional standpoint of being, what does it mean to be a Beachbody Super Trainer? Yep, I'm looking at my predecessors in this position. I'm looking at my current teammates and this and that. And I think we're in such a cool place now with our current trainer team, because we have such so much uniqueness. And what I what I see about that, and for me personally, it just, it's just being true to who you are and figuring in number one, you got to figure it out. And that's really what I've been working on the past. I want to say five years because it's really been more about Okay, when I moved back to LA and I got this job and I got there I was working for Gold's but then I got this job and then you know, meeting Brianne and now it's like, okay, now I'm married, I have a house and I have this career that is finite. I know it's not forever but it's a job that I'm obviously loving and hopefully will last another 5-10 years and we'll move on from there but it was just then figuring out like, All right, cool. I had to kind of find that middle ground as well because yeah, when you said it best like look key art cover shoots is not a shape that I want to walk around all the time and my

Will:  

 because it comes at a cost right? 

Joel  

Oh It's horrible. Um, my first experience with that was the first really was quarter force where I dropped from I mean, I was walking around like you know 14% body fat and dropped to six.

Will:  

so you looked great.

Joel  

Well, yeah, I mean, I looked great, but man I was useless. Yeah, yes. Anything it for me. I just know for me personally how I felt and when I get under 10% especially anything under like eight or 9% I just don't function my testosterone levels drop my energy level drops and that also means I'm only eating you know, 1600 calories a day and yeah, it's just not sustainable. So you know, that's in quarter force is a pretty extreme version of that like we're just because I thought that's what I needed. 

Will:  

Well it was your first one right? Like I'm sure that there was some pressure on yourself to be exact the ideal of what you you thought this was going to be? 

Joel  

Sure. And if you look back at those cover shots, I mean, there's that I am definitely in better shape in that picture in terms of like lean lists. And if my next few programs LIIFT4 and 10 rounds like I can look at those. You can look at those pictures and be like, Alright, cool. There you go. You there's always something you can pick it apart about yourself and I definitely wasn't the leanest that I've ever been but it's at the same time, it was functional. And that's okay, great. You can see some abs and you can see some muscles but the same time, like we were super, super jacked and shredded. I know that's, that's more like I was in marketing, I get it, but at the same time, that's gonna sell stuff at the same time. I think I can also turn away people. And so over the years, I've kind of had to figure I figured that out, you know, with LIIFT4 and 10 rounds, and you can tell it definitely a difference even from the, the aspect of where we were, what am I saying? From the cover, or from the key art to action shooting product, there's a difference there where I'm, you know, a little bit, you know, got a little bit of weight back and, you know, it's almost kinda like when you weigh in for a fight, and then I mean, that's the thing to most people, you know, they just assume that okay, great. LIIFT4 is an eight week long program. We shot that entire program in 10 days. Yeah, exactly. You know, it's, it's not we never it's never, I shouldn't say never, but for my programs, they haven't been real time shooting. So the point of all that is the fact that I've spent the past now five years finding out what works for me what feels comfortable, where do I wake up on a daily basis? And I feel like I have the energy through to do the things that I want to do, which is you mentioned, yes, dirt biking with going into the trails and then having a whiskey and burger at the end. Yes. So that is it. I mean, because those are the things that I love. Like I'm not I don't like eating healthy. I'm not I hate kale. I will fight. I'll become a three year old when it comes to eating it. So I'm like, and booze is definitely one of my favorite things like in terms of like, I love whiskies. I love Bourbons. I love scotch. And you know, I love being with my friends and having those drinks. So I never want to say, Oh, no, I don't want to have this because of this. Unless if I'm getting ready for something, obviously, but the day to day, that's what I started calling the happy shape. Because yeah, you know, walking around, I'm I know, I'm fit. I'm not the leanest guy out there. I'm not the strongest guy out there, but I'm the happiest when it comes to it. Because I just I don't I don't ever feel like I have to regret anything. And I think that's where, you know, I'm trying to help people. I'm there happy shape, because they all look the same. Like, yeah, exactly. It's different for everybody. Right? Yeah, it's gonna be the difference. I mean, genetics plays a role in everything. So you can't look to someone else. Like, oh, I want Brittany. Oh, everyone's always like, oh, man, I want my wife Brianna. Yeah, she has an amazing body. But she also, but she does all the things to me. And that's what makes her happy. So she does those things on a daily basis. And all those different things that she doesn't do the basis and makes it look so amazing, would drive me insane. I wouldn't, I wouldn't be able to do it. 

Will:  

Do you think this is a knowledge that you had like, did you because I'll give you some context for the question that I'm about to ask. I feel like I came to this realization in the last couple of years, myself as well on that I've been in fitness for a long time I've done you know, Les Mills DVDs in various videos. And I would always kind of try and eat a bit more healthy around those times and lose a little bit of weight. And then in the off times, I would just not care so much. And I'd be a little bit bigger. But I also find that like naturally, I'm thinner in summer than I am and winter because in winter, I like to eat pasta, and I like to drink red wine in the evenings. Whereas in the summer, I'm really like physical and I'm out doing stuff. And I kind of realized that there is a shape where I can eat, eat what I want to eat. I love exercise. So I always exercise every day. It's not a challenge for me, it's not something I need to get motivated about. But there was a period where it was after I turned 35 when obviously my metabolism probably started to slow down a little bit to where I realized that I was just comfortable at a certain weight that I probably thought would have been too big a few years before but I was like, this is the weight I can eat what I want, do what I want, feel healthy at. And I became comfortable with it. But I think it got there when I had a little bit of maturity. And I wondered like did did do you think it was an age thing for you? Or was this something else to play? 

Will:  

No, I think you're right. I think it's I think it definitely comes with maturity. I definitely you know, look in our 20s we're invincible. Yeah. We are, you know, we can do everything back to them like wow, I could, you know, I was able to eat all the bread and pasta I wanted and you know, wake up the next day and I look skinnier. And there's no question that as we get older, we know that our metabolisms are slowing down and things like that so obviously that makes a difference, but you're right. I mean i used to walk around probably, I don't weigh myself very often but probably,, let's just say 180 pounds is what I walked around and that's before I really kind of go back into the weightlifting world and found what I enjoy the most you know from from from the workout standpoint, it's the same thing you said I enjoy I enjoy working out, I enjoy exercise in in really it's it's it's true form like I like lifting and I like boxing, but those are my two things. Anything more than I'll go finding stuff to do so. And it's the same thing about food, I found consistency in my food, that of the things that I can enjoy for the most part and know that if I stay consistent, you know, five, six days a week, and then that allows me go whatever days that I'm out with friends or this and that I can, I can, you know, kind of go off the rails and not really care. And you're right now, I probably will walk around at 190 on a day to day basis. And that's a definitely a 10 pound difference. And, you know, that'll go away when I have to get ready for a shoot or something like that. But yeah, it's just where I just, I'm happy, I just feel good. And, you know, knowing full well, that there's always something we can do better from a standpoint. But then if that's the case, it's just comes down to priorities, like, Okay, fine. Do you want to see six abs? Or do you want to see four? And what's the difference that you're gonna have to make? The difference is the changes you have to make to see those other two? And for me, those are the changes that I don't want to change. Yeah, so that's, it's definitely been more, you know, it's been, it's been a journey for me on the past, I'd say five years. And really, the past couple years, I think that's two years, especially has been huge. It just where I'm like, Alright, I think I got it, and I just feel good about it. I'm confident in it. And I think of I think, I mean, it's, it's who I am, and it who I am has definitely changed over the years in the decades. And I think that's just shows growth, we all want to, we don't want to, I don't think we want to be the same person that we were in our 20s I don't know I don't want to be I want to continue to evolve and mature and the way I learn things and keep going through stuff. But I do know that I'm just going to keep going in direction that makes me happy. And if this is the shape that makes me happy, that's my happy shape. 

Will:  

It's funny, isn't it, because I think that like there's, there's always so much talk about body image, when it comes to being someone with any profile in the fitness industry like you are, you're you're judged a little bit on what you look like whether it be big or small, lean, not lean. There's all these different movements around, you know, body positivity, body neutrality, but the way you described it, which is your happy shape, which is the shape that you can maintain when you're doing all the things that make you happy, but you know that you're healthy, and you know that you're dialing in the nutrition most of the time, so you keep your body, you keeping your body healthy, if everybody could could get to that point where they could find their happy shape, because I'm sure people will listen to this. And, you know, you and I have like athletic male bodies. And so I'm not going to suggest for a second that we're talking about, you know, being overweight or anything like that. But everybody finding their own happy shape, which is the shape where they can have a healthy diet and a healthy lifestyle, but not be stressed about looking a certain way would really just be the perfect approach for everyone to take to fitness. 

Joel  

Absolutely, man, it's it's, you know, with that, I think there's just a big thing on the what you're talking about is the aspect of weight loss and weight gain and all these different things. And yeah, you're right, like I, I, if I was if I didn't work out, I'd actually be just like the skinny fat kid. Like where I'd be like, I have like no muscle, but I probably have a beer belly. Yeah. Because I just and that's just my, you know, my type. But you're right, when it comes to weight loss, and this and that. And look, it's to say that if someone's on a weight loss journey, because that's obviously a lot of my audience. When somebody is on weight loss tree. That's great. You're on a journey, but there's things and if you want to get to if you're trying to accomplish something specific, excuse me, like with weight loss, then you know, there's no question anymore that, you know, you got to cut the crap out. 

Will:  

Yeah, exactly. 

Joel  

It's like, it's not a mystery. 

Will:  

This is a thing, right? Like, when you know that you need to get looking a certain way for cover, you know, I need to do X Y Zed, and that is you well cut out all the crap and maintain my exercise. 

Joel  

Exactly. And that's the same thing with losing weight, you know, you got to cut things out. It's not a mystery anymore. Yeah. And then, you know, but also remember, but also then being realistic and your goals realistic in your expectations. You know, if you have 50 pounds to lose, I always tell people like do it and take you five months to gain 50 pounds, no it was probably over the course of a couple years. And you know, it takes a lot, it's actually you know, it's easier to put the weight on that is to take it off. So if it took me two years, again, 50 pounds, it might take you two years, even if not more to get it back off, but that's going to be healthy, that's going to be sustainable. And it's going to be and what that's also going to do is it's going to help people establish consistent lifetime habits right and that's where I'm all about I don't want the fast fixes you know, I make these programs that with LIIFT4 and 10 rounds specifically are made to be a lifestyle program where you can not just do it for eight weeks, but something you can consistently do and hopefully you develop those habits and that's what I've done that's where it has led me to my happy shape is over the past few years especially within the past two specifically, I have found my consistent habits what I can eat consistently on a weekly basis that I know will keep me in pretty good shape. What I do in my turns in my exercise, I weightlift and I box. If I if you told me I had to go for a run, I would do everything to not go running.

Will:  

So you didn't say, what was what was, didn't Beachbody just release a running program. Did you not do that one? 

Joel  

I sure didn't. I think though, and I think it's awesome that Dallas, is she's, she's phenomenal. She loves to run and Godspeed girl. So it's but that's, you know, that's and to each their own. And I think that's, that's great. 

Will:  

Well, that's why you got the variety of people on the team, right. So that you can represent the different types of things that people like to do. 

Joel  

Exactly, exactly. So it just really comes down to that. And you're right with with social media, man, it's made it even harder for people to not go scroll through that and try to compare, and I catch myself doing it still time. Like it was like, oh, man, I wish my calves looked like that, guys, let's go huge calves. But just, 

Will:  

we just released a new shift workout, actually. And it's volleyball themed workout. And there's the shot where like I'm jumping up and doing a spike. And we filmed it right at the end of right at the end of the first lockdown. It was like we just got out of lockdown. And the first lockdown was in winter, we didn't know how long it was going to be. And I like I had very little equipment in the house. And I bought a body bike actually. So I bought a spin bike for the second lockdown. So I was good. But basically, I put on a few KGs, but I was fit. Like I've been keeping fit. I've been doing lots of workouts, but I've been eating loads of pasta, I wasn't doing enough steps per day, that's even in hotel quarantine, I've been keeping up my 10,000 steps a day walking in a circle. But in the cover art, there's like a shot and I'm jumping out and my T-shirts lifting up. And if you look at it in the context of the shot, it's really cool because I'm getting real highs. And I look at it and think wow, like you're almost 40 year old man who has had two kind of quite significant disc injuries. And you're getting a hold of a high and you're really enjoying the abilities of your body to jump. And I knew that I was having fun at that moment. And that's part of my brain. And the other part of my brain just goes, ooh, look at you stomach gross. Yeah, and, and i look at that photo and, and like part of my brain goes gross, your stomach is gross. And the other half is like look at all the great things like you're enjoying fitness, you're jumping high, you're having a great time. And I really have to force myself to not go for that initial 'gross'. And it's a constant, constant battle within my brain that I try and be mature about what I know fitness to be, but it's sometimes hard. 

Joel  

It is and like you're talking about picture of you, you're not even talking about a picture of you know, someone else that has probably been filtered and tweaked and this and that, that someone else is comparing to I mean, the, the the filters and everything is just getting ridiculous at this point. And you can look through the stories now. And you can make you can change your entire face with a filter now. So it's just the reality. Reality is not as real as it used to be. And but the problem is this generations are growing up and they're so used to the technology, they think that, that is reality. And that is what's real, and it's not and that's definitely leading to some more self image issues. There's no question about that everyone know, we all know that that's leading to issues. And so, you know, I'm I'm but one small voice in it. But, you know, I'm just going to keep plugging away and just keep hammering people to hopefully find find the love for themselves because once you're once you're feeling good about yourself, at least you're on a good path and you know, everything else just starts to look better and brighter in your own life as well. And, you know, I think that's really important too. So you got to if you're not happy with yourself, how can anybody, how can be happy for anybody else? And how can anybody be happy with you, if you're not loving yourself, so I think it's you're gonna keep preaching it. 

Will:  

Good. Well, I'm glad I'm glad that there is a strong and powerful voice within fitness that's preaching that because I think it's an important message. 

Joel  

Yeah, thanks, man. You're doing doing it too, buddy. 

Will:  

Thank you Yeah, that's that's one of the things that I like is that that we can be a fitness format that really is just for everybody with anybody, no Photoshop, just be real. 

Joel  

Yeah, no, I love I love what you guys are doing I'm always watching it and I love what you're doing because you bring it you're bringing real people and you're bringing real instructors in along that all walks and shapes and looks and everything and I love that it looks like and you could tell you guys are having fun and that's huge and you know, I don't you know these people all the time they're like because I you know I'm friends with you, I'm friends with you know people in Les Mills and all these other companies, and Gold's and this and that and you guys like, definnitely like you guys there's there's there's a lot of people out there that need help and so everything that we can all do collectively to help people I think there's there's plenty of love to go around. 

Will:  

Oh 100% I have like I get asked that question so much, like do you think that the the fitness industry is being crowded out now that is you know, there's Beachbody, and there's Les Mills, and there's Apple fitness coming and there's Peloton and the answer is absolutely not. Because we've still only got like, you know, like 20% of people that that do any form of exercise and what 8% of people that do regular exercise. And so, I mean, I'm pulling those figures out of thin air, but it is something around that point. Right. And it's like, if we if we are fighting between ourselves in the 10 percents, we are totally missing the bigger picture. 

Joel  

Yeah, when obesity stops being a stat in heart disease and and people dying and youth, you know, youth obesity is that Yeah, when those stats drop or disappear, then I'll say we have too much competition. Until that point, I think we're pretty safe for right now. So but no, man, you're killing it too. And I appreciate your friendship and everything.

Will:  

It's been very nice to have you on. So I'm gonna ask the question, and you can feel free to decline it. But so what's next? Like, if we got another program coming out? Can we get a scoop?

Joel  

Yeah, I get well, I got no scoop to give. 100% honestly, but, you know, the way the way it works is, you know, we came out of 10 rounds and the way the programs launched, they go all access and early access, and this and that. So 10 rounds with all access in the fall, and September. And so you know, we're still pretty, we're still fairly new in 10 rounds is still pretty new program. So what will usually happen is that you'll just keep pushing that program and, and promoting it. And I do my little hybrid calendars, I got to do the four and 10 rounds. And just keeping people engaged in helping them see all the different ways they can use my programs to help, obviously and Team Beachbody for the coaches to help their customers. And then just you know, customers in general that follow me how they can use it. So I'll be working on that. And then sometime next year. You know, I have ideas. I know, CEO Beachbody has ideas, and we talk all the time. So it's, you know, I think there's, Yeah, watch the space. I'm sure we'll be doing something, something fairly soon. But for now, I'm you know, I like to it is because when we do these programs, like for 10 rounds, for instance, that was a full, solid year. 

Will:  

Well, you put so much work into it, right, that you don't want to move on to the next thing before you've really given people the full experience of what you've done. 

Joel  

Well, yeah, I mean, 10 rounds was a solid year of nothing else, but that I mean, there was no you know, it was just, you know, nose to the grindstone blinders on not looking at anything else for an entire year. So it's kind of nice to take a little bit of time, and let that settle. And let people enjoy it, like you said, and then also just let your brain kind of clear out a little bit from it. That's That's a lot. I mean, as you know, is it's one thing doing, you know, putting new stuff together every three months of that said, but when you just look at nothing, nothing but one thing for a year. It's it can be you need a little time. So we're gonna we're gonna stay busy. 

Will:  

Uh huh. And do you have you got any big Christmas when you use trips planned? I know that you're a big one for traveling. 

Joel  

Yeah, we we love Mexico man. And we've so we've actually been going down there a lot just because and the reason we would go to Cabo lot just because it's actually it's, it's so close for us. It's just about a 2 hour flight. And it we've been enjoying it down there. Because we're around so few people compared to here in LA, obviously, with everything. It's been so crazy. Yeah. We've just, you know, like, I'm around less people down there, then when I go to the grocery store here. So yeah, actually kind of, we've kind of been using that as our escape down there, away from people. So we're going to go back down and in for New Years, and hang down there. And that's just kind of like our new our new favorite quiet place. 

Will:  

Very nice. Well, Merry Christmas to you. Thank you very much for coming on and I'm sure I'll speak again at some point. 

Joel  

Sounds good, man. Thanks so much. 

Will:  

So that was my conversation with Joe. How fun does it sound to be a Super Trainer. Speaking as someone who's been up close and personal to the work, they do at Beachbody, I can say that it sounds like an awesome job. But I'm also very aware of how hard they work, and how hard each of them has worked to get where they are and to continue to deliver market leading programs. My favorite message from my talk with Joel is definitely his thoughts on finding your happy body. There is absolutely no one body that represents fitness. Fit and healthy and one body could look completely different to another and the more that we can accept our own happy body, that body where we feel happy, we feel healthy, but we can still enjoy life. The more we will break down these outdated expectations of what a fitness instructor should look like or just anybody should look like. If this is a topic that interests you, and you haven't yet listened to Episode Five with Vanessa, I highly recommend that you go back and give it a listen as we cover this topic in much more detail.

Thank you for listening. If you're enjoying the show, don't forget to subscribe for all the latest episodes wherever you get your podcasts. And while you're there, please drop us a review. You can also get in touch with me at will@sh1ftfitness.com. I'm Will Brereton and you've been listening to Group Fitness Real Talk.