Emma: 

Rather than thinking, oh my god, they're only going to come to my physical space like maybe once or twice a week, think, there are an infinite number of ways that your brand could touch me. You know, whether, you know so many ways and social media is just the beginning. You know, we go to the obvious -- we go to the nutrition, am I wearing your shit? You know, we go to those obvious, tangible things. But there's everything. There's mindfulness, there's meditation, there's so many ways that you could be reaching out, giving me a little nudge, "hey, all the best for that board presentation this afternoon". There's so many ways that your brand -- once you've become integrated truly into my lifestyle, and I choose you as one of the things that I hold close. And there's so many ways that that can be expressed. So it doesn't have to be that we're physically together, you just have to be top of mind. And you just have to be adding value to my life. And that is where the digital can come to the fore if used for good. 

Will:  

Hey, I'm Will Brereton, founder of SH1FT Fitness and this is Group Fitness Real Talk, a show about how to survive and even thrive as an instructor in 2020 and beyond. 2020 has seen huge upheaval of our lives and many of the past podcast episodes have centered around supporting instructors during this very difficult time. But today, I wanted to take a break from COVID and flash forward to the future. I think we've earned it to a time when lockdowns are a distant memory. And we're going to ask what will the fitness industry look like in three years time? To help answer that question, in today's podcast, I'm bringing along my guest and good friend, Emma Barry, is the former creative director of Les Mills International. She's led group fitness programming for the world's most luxury gym chain, Equinox and she is a global fitness authority, someone who's been in high demand in 2020, helping the industry make sense of where to go from here in Brazil, so one of my biggest fitness mentors, she coached me right back at the start of my presenting career. And she continues to be someone I call on when I need to figure out what's next. Our conversation touches on a number of topics from hot new fitness trends, to creating connection to the dangers of technology, and what you need to watch out for. I think that a lot of instructors might have once looked at technological advances and fitness as a threat to their careers. But this year has shown us that that's not what it is, it is an opportunity. I want you to go into this conversation with an open and curious mind because the world is changing. And those of us that can embrace these changes, and find creative ways to incorporate them into what we love are the ones that will continue to thrive in the future of fitness. Now, onto my chat with Emma. So Emma Barry, welcome to the podcast. I'm so happy to be here. So you're dialing in from California. What time is it there?

Emma  

It is 9am in the morning, the kids have just gone online on school and it's a really nice day outside and some big event going on outside which I'm not going to chicken on today. 

Will:  

Fair enough. Just switch off. So I've wanted to have you on the podcast since I started it. I'm so glad that I've managed to get you on it's so hard to get space in your diary. You're so busy.

Emma  

There's time for you, Will. Always.

Will:  

So, for anyone who's listening to the podcast doesn't know you're already, why don't you just give a quick kind of summary of your fitness career up to today. You can go super fast, just give us the highlight reel. 

Emma  

I was trying not to get into fitness, I was trying to be a lawyer, but I drank too much beer so I ended up in the fitness industry, which I ended up adoring. Came out of a tiger University, trained in New Zealand, got involved with Les Mills very early was a personal trainer, was an instructor, and then moved into management, fell in love with the business of fitness. Moved to Auckland then was very fortunate to be one of the people shoulder tapped by Philip Mills to start body pump around the world, went on that wonderful journey with the brand for about 25 years, we won green cards to the US, decided to go on that adventure, which has been interesting to say the least. And then worked for Equinox, luxury lifestyle brand, Equinox for three years and commuted to New York from LA, had a wonderful creative team in the programming side of group fitness. And then before I got too old and tired of being consulting around the globe for the last three years to the innovative age of fitness, so that's come in the form of boutiques, right across the seat direct actually luxury and right down to the value based. So we work with basic foot and Central Europe for the last three years or so. And yeah just really enjoying the time so really pivoting like everyone into the fit tech, the well tech space, and most recently in the last few months have just launched with some previous colleagues with soul hunting which is an executive search brand, which focuses on health and fitness, personalized health, sports wellness.

Will:  

I have to say as someone who has probably got one of the most long and varied international fitness careers, you managed to summarize it in like, 90 seconds or less, I was expecting that to go way longer. 

Emma  

Look it's sad when you can kind of, you know, boil your life down to a few scenes. I feel I feel like you've done that before. You've managed to give that little intro. Okay, so, um, I, what I wanted to get you on the podcast to talk about is that we have done a lot of chat about COVID, and a lot of chat about sort of how to deal with all the stuff that we're doing now. But one of the favorite things that I like to talk to you about what we often kind of chat about over a few wines or a few beers, or a few cocktails, when we catch up, is looking forward to the future of fitness. Like what is fitness going to be,, flash forward sort of two, five years. And so for the purposes of this conversation, I want to reference the past a little bit, but I'd love to pretend like we're in a perfect world, where COVID has been successfully dealt with, either by a vaccine or whatever manner of manner of solution. And so we're going to jump forward to the post COVID world when we're no longer having to deal with lockdowns and restrictions, and what fitness is going to look like. So obviously, it's going to be impacted by COVID. But what can we expect to see from the future of fitness? So I guess I'll just like throw it out to you. What do you think? What do you see as the major things and the major themes and fitness that are going to affect group fitness instructors in two years time, when we've dealt with COVID, and everything's fine. And politics is totally fine all around the world, not stressed about it anymore. All of that. 

Emma  

So look, I think, you know, one of the things we've talked about during these times is kind of jumping forward three years and three months, like there's definitely been, as we've talked about it many, many times and accelerated approach to everything that fitness here. So I think it's really important always to come back to the principles, the principles are, our bodies were designed to move. So that's not going anywhere, we do know that some people are cerebral, and they're just sitting there and coding or sitting behind a computer for 18 hours a day. So we know that that does exist in our society. But generally we have bodies, we need to move them, we generally when we find the right thing, and we're relatively healthy, there's a lot of joy in movement. So I think these are some of the things that are underpinning we know during these times that technology is definitely coming to the fore. I believe that we're in a very clunky phase right now where we're going through, ooh, shall I do digital or shall I do live? And it's like, guys, it's gonna be everything. This is just an awkward moment, right now that we're getting through. And we sort of were putting them, we're compartmentalizing the pieces. But when you look at a shopping and retail experience now they're best friends in the world, you'll walk past the shop and open your phone, you know, it's all one. And you know, we talk a lot about or, you know, nice service, we're talking a lot about figital, you know, where you are actually using technology to enhance the live experience. It is one in the same, it just as big

Will:  

By figital, you mean physical plus digital? 

digital?

Emma  

Yes. So you're actually in the space where one is feeding to the other. And it's therefore a seamless experience for me the user in a way that I like to consume everything. So I think it's going to get really good. Now, with Apple's announcement, I think the other big theme is fitness. And we're so precious about it, because this is our industry, and it's the only thing in the world. But actually, we're just another form of of content, we're just another thing that makes up our lifestyle, which is we've kind of got our work, and even that's blending with our lives right now. So everything's crossing borders, you know, work and work and play and in lifestyle and nutrition and fitness. And, and then biometrics, you know, what does my body actually need today? Now, if we think about Tim Cook, he has mentioned that Apple wants to democratize and actually make it so that you can manage your health, you are managing your health, you've got a basically a hospital in a gym on your wrist, like that's essentially their game. Now, you would you would think that that's also going to bring in health insurance and mental health and sleep patterns and nutrition and all the things and all the behavioral change things that date that they have data for decades on, right? They know, I mean, they know more what you and I are going to need in 14 yearsyou know, so, so as we operate as part of the bigger health system, you know, we're gonna play our part, which is to move our bodies to put to take the data from our bodies and actually give our bodies what we need. So I think that's going to be part of the journey. And of course, you're going to have the people who don't want to be told what to do, and they don't want to ask Siri anything or they don't want to, and I have to say i got a little bit scared at the latest Apple announcement when I look at the smart home because I'm not sure what I'm doing in the new world. I just sort of wake up and exist and have some thoughts and say a few things. And then my life kind of rolls out on a on a carpet and I'm like, there's a part of me that doesn't like that. So I'm just, I'm just trying to come to terms with what that's going to be. But we are in the fitness world. We are going to be aware of what's happening in our body. Whether we're using the Apple watch or the my zone belt, or the whoop, or whatever the brands are, because let's face it, it's gonna continue to be a new brand or come in a unicorn, they'll get all the money lined out, they'll buy all the people they need to buy. That's the new world where we see going from zero to 100, quite quickly, if the idea is very good, you've got to have the data, you've got to have the finances, you've got to have the people and you've got to have the vision that sits underneath it, that those sorts of things are definitely going to come to play. So my view for the future is going to be we're going to be highly influenced by big tech, it's just unavoidable because we're all in a digital construct now. So they've got money, they've got data, they can buy anyone on the planet. And they can basically roll out fitness like they're doing entertainment, like people in the nutrition like retail, like all of the things that we have to make up our lifestyle, are just going to be seamlessly pieced together either bought out or consolidated and rolled out to us. So we are going to have a very hyper personalized future. And it's going to be very informed, we're going to have the data from our bodies, we're going to be interacting with the world, which will be path physical, digital, and that will be laid out how we choose to engage with that will be a little bit personal. But I do feel like some of those choices are going away because it's just easy. Like if you jump on them, they start helping you think a certain way, they give you the things that you need based on what you've shown you need in the past. So I think all that's gonna happen, where do instructors fit into that? We're still the Pied Pipers, you know, we're still motivators and you know, people who inspire people to live this healthier life. So I think it's going to become more broad reaching, you're not just going to be a one dimensional instructor who does knee lifts, you're going to be more of a lifestyle, where here are the things that come into your life, and you help guide people through those choices. So I think there's that, I think you're definitely going to operate in a physical and in a digital construct. So there's going to be and I'm hoping from these times that we're going to be outside more, you know, more in tune with, you know, circadian rhythm. And you know, if we can be outside, we are outside, and we're all together and there's and we've got our feet in the soil, and we've got our hands in the air, you know, those? Are you you live in California, California. So you can probably go outside a couple of days a year, you know, exactly. But But no, I mean, these are some of the things I hope for our world will change dramatically. And we're already seeing that in the club world. Because with operational costs going up with class, even the number of classes, the spaces between classes, with distancing, and all that all that kind of stuff, some of that stuff might stay, I don't know what's going to come back. But we do know from a lot of the researchers that some people prefer the times now, some people do more space, less members, more service, more cleaning. So some of those remnants, I think, of COVID times will carry through as a customer service level.

Will:  

 It's really interesting, isn't it, because I think that there's a lot of assumptions about the way the industry works like this is a peak time, this is when people go to the gym, this is how many times you use a gym per week, the average member, you know, utilizes all this stuff, and there's so much data. And then we've had this massive big break. And you know, it was initially going to be a three week break. And now it's become a basically a whole year break. And so even if everything was taken away, and there were no more restrictions placed on people, they've had this prolonged period where their habits have changed. And when they go back to consuming, they're not going to consume those same patterns. And so an industry that's you know, grown since the 80s, has 30, almost 40 years worth of data of this is the way you do it. This is the cardio equipment you buy, this is how you use your space, this is how you market and sell your gym memberships, is going to be completely shaken up and changed. Because I agree with you, I think that people have had a taste of the life of a different life. And I don't think they're going to be willing to give that up immediately. I think they're going to want parts of that to stay.

Emma  

I agree. And I think you bring up a great point and it's around touchpoints. So rather than thinking, oh my god, they're only going to come to my physical space like maybe once or twice a week think there are an infinite number of ways that your brain could touch me. You know, whether, you know so many ways and social media is just the beginning. You know, we go to the obvious, we go to the nutrition, am I wearing your shirt, you know, we go to those obvious tangible things. But there's everything. There's mindfulness, there's meditation, there's so many ways that you could be reaching out giving me a little nudge, hey, all the best for that board presentation this afternoon. There's so many ways that your brain, once you become integrated truly into my lifestyle, and I choose you as one of the things that I hold close. And there's so many ways that that can be expressed. So it doesn't have to be that we're physically together. You just have to be top of mind and you just have to be adding value to my life. And that is where the digital can come to the fore if used for good. You know, so you're not slamming with a whole lot of stuff I don't want. You make sure that nothing I don't want ever gets to me. You only give me what you know that I've asked for more that doesn't get me unsubscribing?

Emma  

to the main site thing,

Will:  

Right, because you have that thing if you spam someone, then they stop being a customer. So you've got to hit that sweet spot of communicating with them enough and regularly so that they want more communication from you, but not too much that they switch off or stop. 

Emma  

And I have to love you. So there's this whole thing around your brand. And what's that as the people, it's talking to your crowd, you know, what part do I have to play in that? Now we saw a couple of things and lockdown we saw that some people went racing off to the professionals, the peloton, the mirrors, the titles, the listeners on demand, you know, the shifts, you know, all the people who do this for a living, right? And then you hit people going up. I just want Will, from five o'clock on a Monday, it was my own Will. And I feel home. And he's my world. And so those are the opportunities. So you know, a lot of people are like, Oh, my God, Apple's coming Apple's coming. Yes, they are. And it's great, because they're validating fitness, and they're going to put a whole lot more eyeballs on that we've failed to do in our fitness. So so so embrace that, and then get really good at delivering to the people that you appeal to, you know, if you're in a community, a lot of people don't want the big corporate thing. They just want well, and they want Will regularly, you know, whatever that that journey looks like, yeah?

Will:  

Yeah, I like I have to say that I've watched, I've watched a whole lot of gyms and studios of all manner of sizes go digital, I've helped many of them. And one of the things I've noticed most is that the biggest success is coming. I see that the biggest success is either end of the market, it's the mass market peloton, low price, easy like high convenience factor. And then there's the big long community not so professional, not so slick, that the middle ground, it's a little bit like the budget gym and boutique split in the fitness market that happened kind of you know, 10 years ago, is that it's all splitting down to big providers who provide massive convenience for a low price. And then very, very individualized community based providing connection that people aren't getting any more at the other end. And that can be done through Facebook or through your local instructor. And I'm not sure how much of a space there is for like medium sized digital fitness providers and like i and i will be interested to see how that shakes down, particularly when Apple comes out. Because I'm I don't know how they will manage to compete with such a big company on one side, and still not being able to provide that really deep, deep knowledge and personalization and the other. 

Will:  

Yeah, and I think that that bifurcation was interesting in the physical world. And then I think in the digital world, I believe those worlds will come together. So if you look, I mean, we lost the whole middle market quite quickly, they were already financially stressed, they folded pretty quickly. Now, of course, we're seeing both ends, you know, with Equinox under pressure, with our boutiques and with the budgets under pressure because they got so many locations that they had to stay open, etc. What I think is interesting is that I think in the New World, both will exist. And in a way that whole middle market could essentially evaporate altogether, because I believe that low price and quality are going to come together through enablement of technology. And all you need is one big player with incredibly deep pockets and the ability to own that whole service arm of I own all the products in the delivery mechanism and I understand you because they have the deep data. So actually, you know, Apple coming out with a 9.99 product is kind of smart, because you've just, bundled with a $20 membership that has everything that you could possibly need to consume on a daily basis. Hundred percent. So I believe that that's going to be the new business models. And I think that's interesting in the physical world as well. I've had quite a bit of feedback of people saying, you know what, I'll pay a lot of money to go to a club that has 500 members, because I like this. I like the service. And I'm prepared to pay because I value my house, especially after these times. So you've kind of got these little offshoots. But I think because of digital if you think about it, that's the way to scale, you know, that maybe you had a membership of 5000 members, you know, if you're a club or maybe you had 500 if you're a boutique, but maybe now you can have exponentially so which is going to bring your operational costs down provided you can keep the music licensing and all that stuff. Right, you know, because you know, what's, what's the amount that peloton pays? 33 or 33 cents on the dollar or something? 

Will:  

Oh, yes. It's a massive part of their revenue. Yeah. 

Emma  

Yeah, you know, to use the top songs and you know, stuff like that. But so I think, yeah, I actually reckon there's going to be new business models, and I think the whole thing is going to get challenged. And we do know and we're seeing this in every world right now there's a consolidation, right, of with services. There's a consolidation of bricks and mortars, there's a consolidation of boutiques. Look at all the verticals that are being built through exponential through, you know, Les Mills, Equinox...

Will:  

To anyone listening to this, we will put links out to all of this stuff in explanation, because we're likely to just reel off many things that people haven't heard but we will we'll we might dive into a few of those. 

Will:  

But I'm sorry

Emma  

Sorry about that, but you did ask.

Will:  

 No, no, no, this is this is why I wanted you on here. Okay, so next question would be...So you you often work with like big chains and boutiques and people at the high level that have money to invest in learning more about this and money to invest in brand. listeners of this podcast are instructors who might be teaching in a gym, they might petition for themselves, what other sorts of things that they should be doing read their own behavior and upskilling to allow them to be marketable in the future, do you think based on what you know, is coming?

Emma  

Right, so you have to, there will be some brands that managed to do a face to face thing. And actually, one of the examples I'm thinking of, that's not a good example, is just thinking of Bear Grylls and and the B MMilitary Fit Crowd, right, yeah, we started outdoors, but they actually pivoted online, and done some really cool stuff. But they've made their internal instructors famous by unlocking the uniqueness, you know. So I think my point here is, very few brands are just going to have a physical expression. So you turning up and teaching 15 classes a week, is kind of going to be stressed. And the other thing is you're relying on others. And then you're having to if I've got 20, 50 instructors in less classes, and you know, what does that end up looking like, and by the way, I want to keep my manager, so they probably going to take most of the classes, were unfortunately in that in that horrible situation. So given that, and given that you still want to stay in fitness, there's two things I'd be looking at just get good at digital life, just and there's a number of courses out there, I know you've done some work in that space as well, you've just got to get used to talking to the little black dot, yeah, you have to get better at being you and I think people join and and do that in a way that just shines the authenticity. So people are not there for the picture perfect saying that there because you're you you crack your jokes, you're out there, you're reaching out to people. So there's some people that do this very well. And there's others that just, you know, they really struggle with it. But it's just time and do it without recording if you need to, it's just, you know, your first 10 hours of Get over yourself. And then but get started. I mean, the main thing is to get started, the market will tell you what they like and what they don't like. But you've just got to start. And you know, you and I talk a lot about this, everyone starts. Apple launches a product and they get all the bugs out the next week. Noone gets something perfect launching it to market, the last 20% of your product should be developed in market and expected to keep changing. So I would say get good at that. And get good at knowing what your personality is. And just don't be scared to show that because that's actually that's the biggest bullshit meter that all that we know the millennials and the gen Z's hate, they hate corporate. And they hate anything that smells of a brand. And you'll notice most a lot of people are deliberately not putting out the flash TVC that's got all the bells and whistles because it looks like a big advancement. Yeah. And so it's tone deaf right now, people do not want that. They want to see Will who's like, hey, guys, we're three weeks into our six week thing. Congratulations, if you're brand new, I know how hard it is, you know, whatever. Yeah, that much more engaging approach, then a perfectly edited all the shapes and everything's, you know, doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. Um, so far, I haven't had my hair done in months, I haven't met someone who can take me on a journey. So work on your charisma and just work on your story. You know, like, my favorite presenters are the ones that take me on a journey. And it's like, you know, I've had a great day today Come with me, let's do something about that, you know, and, and just share a little bit of it. So you still got to be good at what you do, you're still got to clearly teach things. So people need to get a result, there are so many great choices out there. And unfortunately, you are competing against Thor, and you are competing with half naked girls have Instagram around their poles that they rented from their, you know, rich uncle and whatever. You're up against all of that. But you have your community and just start where you are, start your audience start with one. So that would be one thing is just develop your skills, develop your community around that. And then don't drop the ball. If you say you're going to do Monday or whatever, do Monday at whatever, and then keep doing it. And then a third, you know, get some feedback and adjust become data late. So listen, you know, what do your people like? When do they drop off, you know, so you've got to start a meeting and switch the feedback, switch the F word. So it's not failure, it's feedback. And if it doesn't work, it doesn't matter. Try something else, or suck it up for a bit more. We know this getting a podcast, starting a class, building an empty class, it's all the same. You've got to be resilient, and you've got to keep going. Another place I would suggest is sniffing around corporate opportunities. Every business in the world is trying to now have a workforce that's partly at home. Maybe that party in the office that are going to need a fitness offering to...

Will:  

Yes, and this is the glue there, right? That's the thing where they can get all of their people contributing and acting together in a way that is that is that isn't forced, like a zoom bingo or something like that. 

Emma  

So there's going to be opportunities there. Because you know, we have businesses, we're trying to partner with people that can bring health and wellness. So whether it's in the physical world or digital, look at that. The other thing that fitness instructors are really good at is generally educating and being in front of people. So if I was, you know, just an instructor, if I was instructing for a living right now, I would also be looking at learning opportunities within the corporate business where I can perhaps be the deliverer of information, be it digital, or in real life, whatever, because we're great in front of a crowd. We know how to work a room, we know how to get people excited, and we know how to deliver information. So you know, that's something that I would be looking very closely at. And maybe you need to do a little bit of retraining, now's the time, you can train for nearly free. There's every masterclass you can imagine online for nearly free, or you can pay a little bit of money and walk away with a great certificate or diploma or something. So I would, I would look at moving into that. And that's why I stick back into search. I never thought I'd be in the people side of business again. But there was a need, there is a need for corporate wellness. And there's not that many people that deliver it as patiently as an aerobics instructor. So I'd be like that. And there's money in that because it's corporate, right, and that providing a good health service. So that's a couple of things that I would be I would be working on. Yeah. 

Will:  

So I want to circle back to one of the things you said at the start, which is you know, being authentic and working on your charisma. So you were creative director of Les Mills, one of the original Les Mills, Master trainers around the world like you have trained thousands of instructors, you've also been in equinox, which is at the very top end of boutique and creating star instructors. What's what are some strategies that you say your listener of this podcast? And you've heard me very say this and you're thinking, shit, how do I how do I work on my charisma isn't charisma, something you have? Or you don't have? What's your, what are your top tips or strategies for like, understanding your charisma and building it?

Emma  

The old X-Factor? 

Will:  

Exactly. So tell me, how do you have X-factor?

Emma  

Yeah, look, I think we all have some magic inside us. So you know, there's some people who can fill a room. You know, we talk a lot about little rooms. Some people are really great, intimate. They're great instructors. They look after the 10, or the 15, or the 20 people. And you've got some people who are like a big booming, they've grown. Some people have both. Now, yes, of course, we have a bit of genetic stuff in there. And people can walk into a room. I remember we were at one of the, Bill Clinton came and spoke and I was like, Oh, I see why he got on the stage. His charisma, you know, like he was the whole word, you know, the guys and the girls are like, oh, my 

Will:  

I once saw Rianna in person. And you were just drawn, like, obviously people kind of milling around. But there was just an energy about her that was just drew you in completely. 

Emma  

Yeah. So there's a reason that these people are very great leaders and stars in their own right. But there is also tricks, and the tricks are, there's a certain way and you know, this from years presenting on video, you can look like a complete tosser and an asshole and the rest of it, or you can actually come across and you can start to change some of the things that you do on screen. But one of the things that I learned so that some tips just top of head might be always speak through a smile. You know, when I look at the Tone It Up and all the girls and the people that present on that platform, they all make you feel great. Like they're all you know, they're all pretty and they've all got good bodies, but actually, they're just really, they're for you. And they're just -- so you can speak through a smile, if that's part of your vibe. If you're going to be like a you know, hardcore Sergeant Ken or whatever. Maybe that's your vibe. But there's tricks you can do so -- and we know this from filming, what do we do it for in a filming week? We film, we go back, we make it better? Don't do this. The arm looks weird here. Do the same thing in terms of how you're coming across. Oh, God, that didn't ring true. When you say stuff, but so it's just it's repeating, like film yourself, repeat yourself. I've done a couple of courses with brands recently, where, Gosh, can you please get our instructors ready for camera? So it's always the same thing. I'm like, guys, you're speaking to your best friend down the camera. Okay, so you literally have to imagine like Will's on the end of there speaking to you. So that starts getting a more of a conversational time. And then it gives me something to focus on. When I'm sitting here going, Oh my god, the little I'm talking to no one I wonder if it's if you're in that space that's going to come through. If you're an, It is so good to see you here today Will, I can't wait for us to do this workout together. It's so exciting. I've got three new moves, never done them before. Let's see how we go. Do you know what I mean? So you, it changes your focus, then start going Oh, that wasn't very powerful, or it's more powerful when I come in and when I told you these things. So you start to find your things that make you feel you know

Will:  

What I'm hearing is that you like you have to try and then review your own, the things that you've tried, you can't just throw it out there and see what happens you need to go back and, and you touched on a really great point, which is why I think the Les Mills process was so good at getting a great in product is that you know, you taught seven classes over a week you did the same class every day, you tried to joke, flat, didn't work, move on. And you tried the cue, landed perfect. And by the end of it, you had this script that was that was really good. And, you know, you can get a bit too technical, but I think there's a sweet spot. But a lot of people don't like watching themselves on camera, and so they don't watch themselves back. And the single biggest learning tool is watching yourself back. Because you'll go, oh, I hate that, oh, that wasn't so bad. And then you kind of write down the things that are good, the things that are bad, and move from there.

Emma  

And we don't rehearse enough well, like the teams that I work with, like even when I'm running a training, it's like, I'm not interested in you doing it once. I'm actually interested in you doing it ten times, like, Hey, guys, we're gonna be doing intros, you're up with a partner, you are literally going to do it 10 times. If you go on any investment, we run a visiting thing today, like pitch hundreds of times, yeah, hundreds of times. So just you have to do and I'm with Sacha on this. It's not 10,000 hours, but it's targeted training. So it's kind of like, you know, get the guys and I'll say I want to see the perfect intro. I want to see a smile, I want to see you deliver the information I want to feel you. And at no point do you lose me like that's it. And you might have to do it 10 times, but I'd rather do it 10 times now find myself. And then every time that camera goes on, on now there. So the quickest way I got good and this is a related story, you know, was when we were on tour, and we were pouring body pump. In the early days, you were literally teaching season two, you know, 10 times a week. So what we do we teach, you know, Tainted Love back in the day. So you do it, you get reviewed and then by God you'd be on stage again at lunchtime, man, I tell you within two weeks, you were shit hot. So it's the same thing here, film and record, get used to it. And just just get out of yourself like and it's just again, you've just got to get used to it. And at the things you don't like then change them if there's things and then also get some feedback from the market. So all my like when I was doing my shout outs, you know, we were under lockdown. I go oh my god, that one was so lame. I'll post it anyway.

Will:  

Did you do them in one take? Or did you sometimes we re-record them? I'm curious.

Emma  

Um, I in the end, I would summarize re-record them. But it was funny. I was talking about the other day, it actually became a full time job as you know. Becoming I mean, I accidentally created another whole friggin job for myself that I did not need but but it actually saved me in another way. But I would I tend to do stuff on autocue because I have so much stuff going through the day, I've got two full time jobs and into this other thing. So I will tend to script it. But yeah, I would do it a few times. But in the end, and in the ones that I thought were the flat were the ones that people go oh my god that really spoke to me today. So that's another thing you've got to do is get over yourself.

Will:  

Yeah, I've I've given that I was on another podcast recently. And they asked me what will be the one piece of advice you'd give a personal trainer wants to go digital and I was like, get over yourself, just start.

Emma  

Just Yeah, and no one's your biggest critic, then you you know. And so it's just there and then it gets easier, you know, and then it just create a habit like just say, you know, and I've done so much live and so many podcasts and all that stuff right now. It's like second nature to me, and get there too. But just say yes to everything. Put yourself under the pressure, just say I'm going to go live every day. And then, you know, just just do the rehearsal work do the targeted rehearsal work?

Will:  

Yeah, we've got quite a few shift instructors that have come in because they were teaching other formats or teaching freestyle. And then the fact that they could use less time teaching anywhere online, pre recorded all that sort of thing. And the one problem they many of them had is that they hadn't done digital before. And the number of people who and I'm talking about No, say a lady, a woman in her mid 40s, who's you know, just bought a new phone knows they want to go digital, but it's never done this before. And they started off feeling very, very out of their depth when it came to digital. And now they're just flying and it's just a case of doing your eyes like driving a car think of the first time you got on the car and wanted to drive it was so many different things that you had to think about so stressful, so anxious, not enjoyable. Now you just get in and go and like often enjoy it and it's kind of the same thing.

Emma  

Yeah, that's exactly right. It's just it's repetition and it's targeted training early so that you feel comfortable. And then you know, a nice little bit if you can, you know just pop up a couple of nice lights, you know, just to make yourself look 10 years younger than you are.

Will:  

Another ring light diva lamp, as I like to call it. So okay, so now I'd like to sort of pick your brain a little bit, what do you think are the sort of biggest trends that are going to so aside from the personalization of fitness and the increasing Influence of technology and all that sort of stuff. When it comes to like, thinking more like styles of training or ways that people want to move. What do you think is the next big thing? What do you think is the biggest thing right now? I'm curious. And what do you think is the next big thing?

Emma  

Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? I think it's it's a, it's a number of different things depending on where you are and what you're into. But I think some of the hangovers from these times will be outdoors. I think hearables will continue to accelerate because they are linked to two things. They're linked to sensors and your clothing. So I can now get any  coaching that is real time. So if I'm looking at...

Will:  

By hearables you mean a like, explain that a little bit.

Emma  

Okay, so hearable. So when I was at CES, which is the Consumer Electronics Show, which was one of the last live things I did with 100,000 other people and I was the dumbest person in the room. And I, you know, in our industry was the slowest to evolve, like I just, I just walked around with my mouth permanently open going and then robot following me. Like freaky. But anyway, hearables, I went to the wearables summit, and hearables, or in ear, so if you think about like anything Bluetooth, and they were taking it to the point of so maybe it's an active workout, so maybe it's an audio workout, or where they're going to now is it's real time coaching based on sensors that might be in my clothing, or on my body. So if I'm wearing a shirt, it's got a couple of sensors and my shoulders,

Will:  

right, so it's like, coach you to run better, or to move better, uh, wow,

Emma  

kind of a scene. So draw your back shoulder back, you know, into your warrior or whatever, because it can pick up in your body or like you're running high heart rates, just click back,

Will:  

your stride needs just changed, like you need to, like lengthen your stride or whatever.

Emma  

So I think that's coming in the thing that I love about hearables is at that point, I mean, this was prior to Apple's announcement around their watch and all this stuff there. But yeah, hearables, were outperforming watches big time, like in ear stuff, you know, coaching and in real time coaching was outperforming out. So it's still very expensive. And it's still very early stage. But I get that to be very big, because if we can link outdoors with I've got someone in my ear, but I'm not having to watch a screen or maybe my screen, you know, really play a one style...

Will:  

augmented reality. Yeah.

Emma  

So we know that that's coming and Apple, no doubt I'm working on the glasses and stuff as well. So that would be my next point. So hearables, then I would say, reality or digital realities going to get really good. And yes, you can say it's a cerebral game, and that your mind is tricking you to think that you are places but you've had VR experiences where you are scared or you have it on the class for, you know, even though California, you know, whatever that ride is and you know, yeah, theme parks, you feel like...

Will:  

 the old school Star Wars at Disneyland, or Universal Studios, right? Like you, you can feel it,

Emma  

you can feel it. So and that's going to get better. If you look at the technology that's been happening in gaming. If you look at the virtual reality that industries like the six industry, like there's just industries that have been really focusing in on giving you they're giving you an experience and fitness will be no different. So we think that that 

Will:  

Do you think that fitness will start to integrate more, because I was I was looking at the stats. The last the biggest watched sporting event of the year was eSports. So I can't remember exactly what it was. But it's the thing about eSports obviously, is I know that there's a lot of sedentary viewers of football and rugby, you know, but but they used to play it right. Like they went through a period of that was an active pursuit when they're a child and now they watch it. Whereas, you know, there's no fitness side, it's contributing to obesity, not getting out and just playing a video game all day. Do you see the the popularity of gaming and all that sort of stuff merging with fitness in a positive way? Can you see that?

Emma  

And I think that will be I think that will be the next frontier because I think whoever can crack that. And that's why I say it's going to be big tick, it's going to be someone who has deep enough pockets with with a reach into the gaming, because I agree and most people like because the goggles are so clunky right now. And it's funny. We're doing something for ride coming up. And I think this is a big thing to play. Because when you're cycling, you're relatively stationary. Yeah. So I actually think there is you know, and we've got the trip, you know, the immersive experience of the trip and things like that, but I think it's going to get much more visceral.

Will:  

I've also seen a boxing one where like you were there, you wear the goggles and the things come at you and you have to box that box down and you're holding on to the controllers, which is actually pretty cool. I couldn't see how that could. 

Emma  

I mean, it's still clunky and yeah, yeah, that's a little bit more than 

Will:  

it's a bit gimmicky at the moment, right?

Emma  

yeah, VR, I mean black box, they've done the same thing. So that's sort of --And so the most people think AR or augmented reality is where there will be more application immediately for fitness. So I in, I would look to Asia. I just think there's so much technology going on in Asia, which we never get to see because we always basically have a war with them. So certainly there could be no good ideas coming from outside states. So this got this kind of all of it, but I take from it, that's going to be the next frontier. So when I think of technology, I see it on that continuum. And I think it's going to get really good. I mean, you even look at how sticky peloton has been leaderboards and shout outs. I mean, that's what fairly tangible things. Imagine when I can actually feel like I'm in the room. I mentioned a few and I and this is where I think we're going to go quite quickly, I could actually be working out with, with my real friends in Sydney, in London. And yeah, in Amsterdam, I actually could be doing that for real. We're all they're cracking jokes and doing whatever we do. I think that's going to be the next thing. And I think technology is going to take us there. 

Will:  

I was actually just thinking like, someone was talking about, someone's talking about how to utilize zoom. And I'm like, you know, you could do a walking group on zoom, you do a zoom, you have your phone open, and you will go for a walk around the block in a different location. I think there's a business idea in that. And that was kind of playing that forward and thinking like I would much rather go for a run if I'm if I was going for a run with a friend. And they were connected into me and we were chatting, and I was seeing their performance. And especially if there was like an ability for me to see what they were they were running and them to see where I was running like someone running in New Zealand, whereas I'm running across a tower bridge, that would be cool and I don't like running,, but I'm like that would make me run.

Emma  

Exactly right. And all of its coming. We know that because the movies have already forecasted, like we already know. And that technology has a lot of it's in mid-tick. So you know, when I looked at because we're still wearing big, clunky heartrate monitors, and you know, everything's so hard. And this is not as simple as that. And yeah, and different pieces of technology to give me one picture, you know, all of that stuff. It's all going to get simpler. But then when I looked at the nanotech so if you look at newborn babies, the medical industry right now is just putting little patches. So rather than all the tubes and everything going through a new newborn baby, they've got little patches. So it's not going to take too much longer before that comes into our world as well, where everything's a lot more less invasive. And it's just, it's it's either in the clothing or it's 

Will:  

I just watched Brave New World. And it's all through, they have a little contact lens that gives them all of the augmented reality straight into straight into the cortex.

Emma  

So of course, it's all coming. Because to come up with all this stuff. It's got to exist in some form. And it'll take us a few years to get there. But I certainly believe that's where we're going. So what you bring up as the next frontier I think.

Will:  

So interesting question. Because right at the top, you said something about, you know, not knowing if you wanted to have Apple home can listening into all your conversations, and I know that I've had conversations about some random thing, and they've been served that ad on Facebook, and I know that there is a cool coincidence factor, but I'm certain that Siri is listening to me. But the question that I've got for you is you have three teenage children. Right? and How old's max your youngest? How does he feel about the internet, his interactions with technology? Because I think that we're you know, an aging generation, right? Like, we are never going to pick up this new stuff in the same way that that the generation that's coming up now is going to take it? How does how does he feel about fo home? Does he have any kind of does, it has barriers with technology, the same as yours are noticeably different.

Emma  

They're noticeably different. And I mean, we fight pretty hard to make sure that they still have a physical life as fast. So he's native to take, you know, they and they do actually they operate with a lot less judgment around it. So they're naturally doing stuff. And I think fortnight was the great example of cuz he was like, Oh, it's technology. No, the brilliance of that was you're actually still with your mates in the neighborhood talking to them within a game. And there's that whole true blending so and you know, we're we're pretty limited on the amount of time that we didn't go on to the gaming, but he did have a great time when he did. And people are like, well, it's not very social. It's very social. I'm sitting and listening to them all talking. And that's all like they're all in the room. And they're still doing these these things. So that they definitely see it as part of it. And I think the issue the issue for me is where it crosses into mental health stuff. Now, what I observe in my children is this, they now make a decision, whether it's a big decision, a mindful decision, something that should have a little bit more integrity or something around it, they'll make that decision in under a second, I have an issue with it. 

Will:  

Explain that a little bit to me, because I'm really curious, what what do you like, what do you mean by that?

Emma  

So think about let's just think about scrolling through social media is an example. So we the decision, you know, you know, this, you know, what does Will stop on? It's that whole social dilemma thing.

Will:  

It's that social dilemma thing where, you know, they're like, okay, fed him that, feed him that, feed him the girlfriend that now is going out with his best friend.

Emma  

Exactly. So there's that going on. So what I'm saying is they're deciding that they're in a very, very real time culture where you're making decisions do I respond to that person? Do I like that? Do I not like that? all the hate stuff, all the bullying everything that's on there operating at a speed that we just can't even fathom, even you look at their thumbs going...

Will:  

Yeah, I mean, I've noticed that before when I've seen younger, younger people using technology.

Emma  

He can't wait to inherit my computer. So you can have four screens in his room and have everything is literally on Minority Report is literally. So with that speed and then you've got an undeveloped mind. 25 years old, you're making 100 decisions at a speed that is blurring to me, I just can't even understand how you can think that fast. But it's not fully developed thinking. It's not emotionally developed thinking. And then everything is kind of right size. So it's kind of like you might be making a decision around reaching out to a friend who actually needs help. Yeah, the same way of whether or not you're commenting on the latest, you know, hip hop artist, right? Everything is served up together, and you don't necessarily and it's all

Will:  

And it's all done through the phone, like the delivery mechanism for the choice. And the responses is always the same thing, regardless of what it is whether it's ordering food, or catching up with a loved one who's lost, lost, lost a member of a family.

Emma  

Yeah, so I think we're the big separation is then and then you're in your own world, creating your own reality around you at pace, then you've got to go out and we have that sometimes we've got to pull them off to actually have a human discussion. Yeah. And I know that we're archaic, and all of that. But I really worry about the pace of the pace of the psychology that we're changing in a next generation. Because not all of it is good, because they're not fully formed. They don't have their feet on the earth. They're not down to earth, and they don't understand how to make, but you see them getting in trouble really quickly, because it's just you're swiping, you're in and out, look at the bullying. Our cyber cop. You know, a great example is our cyber cop who speaks to all the local schools amazing guy, part of the police force here, but he's like, watching a kid move through to suicide is a very quick process. They get bullied, everyone piles on, including the friends.

Will:  

They think they're completely isolated.

Emma  

They don't sleep, they don't sleep a second night, and then they top themselves like that their whole journey is very fast. When you're operating in an environment that's not real. That is at scale and the whole world saw it at least according to your world. Yeah. So it's not you're not given the the the emotional maturity to deal with stuff. So not they're used to it. They're used to things, but they're also used to things coming easy. Why would I do that? Of course, we're gonna cheat at school because that's the quickest way like just just pull it in while we it's not plagiarism, it's creativity and open source, you know, so that it's not cheating.

Will:  

open source.

Emma  

That's good. I'm stealing that one.

Emma  

It's the same thing in Asia. They don't see it as ripping your stuff off. It's just it's open source.

Will:  

We Yeah, when I was a class pass, there was a in Singapore there was basically a telegram group. So they weren't on WhatsApp and telegram. But basically, every time face classpass will do any type of membership deal, there would just be this telegram group and they would all be buying and selling their own trial memberships in a black market. And they were just like, they just it's just the way it works there. And they don't see it as cheating. It's basically like playing the role, playing the system and to its to its I

Emma  

It's their version of monopoly, for sure.

Will:  

So this is really interesting. So I we've definitely talked about a lot of future facing stuff. Some not all of it good, obviously. So the impact Yeah. So taking it away from the team side? And thinking more about kind of the fitness industry again? Are there any negatives from technology that you're seeing within fitness? Or is it generally a positive thing?

Emma  

There's always negatives, right, there's always going to be light and shade on on any topic. I think the sedentary nature, you know, we do run the risk, I think of becoming overly cerebral and just kind of living it out, you know, in our world. And that is, you know, I think that's my anxiety around smart homes and things like that as what am I actually if I'm if I don't have to do any of the things in my day now, like, like, work out what I need to exercise and work out what I need to eat and actually go to the supermarket because my fridge has already ordered it. Why the music that was just basically the algorithm of stuff that I like so yeah, I think it comes back to human spirit. And I think it comes back to, you know, how do I get to? Is it my destiny to just had my whole life laid out in front of me? And it's the matrix question, right?

Will:  

Well, are we even in the simulation right now, Emma?

Emma  

Do I actually have choice? Or am I just living out an algorithm? Yeah, you know, I and I worry about that every like, I don't worry about it. But I do think about it every day. I sort of think here is my particular age, my particular seats, my particular demographics, and I'm just being feed the life that millions of other women like me, and we all think we're so special.

Will:  

The irony of the of the modern times though is that we're all we've all been brought up to think we're completely unique yet we're all being created as an avatar and then fear what people know we want,

Emma  

honestly, and it's like, is that cute is that the human? And I always think that there's more today. And I think we are here to be special. And so when you say, what are the risks around this? I think that's it, the risk is that we're becoming, and, you know, are we integrating with technology in a way that's still going to grow the human spirit, or we're literally replacing ourselves, but not staying ahead of it to actually evolve where we should be evolving to, which is creativity, which is constructive thought, which is problem solving, you know, which is reaching more spirituality, which has actually been kinda better people. And so I worry about that, because I can see, but my kids, like, they'll send me stuff. And then they'll say, like, right now? And I'll be like, yes, you know, and then and then it's just, I need it right now, as opposed to later and I take it as well. But but that's so there's, there's an impatience, and there's a there's a dumbing down this in. And that's what I worry about is the human spirit, the human spirit, something I worry most about in this because we seem to be giving away so much. Computers are going to outperform us and most things, medical, you know, they can pick cancer with more accuracy than humans.

Will:  

Yeah, they'll be doing operations via laser in a way that with no chance of medical misadventure or mistake,

Emma  

likely, because they can pull on the 300,000, you know, articles that have ever been written on it, come with the right thing and go so that worries me because then when that thinking gets ahead of us, and it's all the doomsday sci fi movies that we watch, and you know, the you know, we smoke the planet while the machines take over and yeah, that I do worry about that for real because, you know, when you've got people like Ilan musk saying, we're getting ahead of ourselves, or we're leaving other things get ahead of ourselves, and we need and the fact that you're always partially at war and technology is the new war, you know, you know that I mean, look at the heck of it. I mean, like, I don't I don't even want to have another privacy conversation because forget about it, guys that that ship has sailed.

Will:  

Yeah, that ship has sailed, right? I say that as being a trained lawyer that's worked for technology companies. I'm like, ehhh...

Emma  

No, you don't you just buy the more expensive hacker, you know, the new 12 year old who just you know, and it's all gonna be used for good and for bad and for power. And for money. It always says, you know, so. 

Will:  

It's really interesting, actually. So at the, I think, before we jumped on the podcast, I said, I want to talk about COVID. I've talked about COVID, way too much. But that is kind of nice way in a way that I think kind of wraps up our conversation. That's one of the I've seen recently, like, one of the few things that I think COVID and having to deal with lockdown has done is it's kind of shaking the tree a little bit. And it's forced everybody to stop speeding along the direction they were going, and it's not always good, like lots of people have, like, you know, people have died, people have really struggled or people are gonna lose their jobs, like many industries are going to be devastated. But everybody's had to stop. Listen, look. And if you're in the fitness industry, you've had to pivot to something you've never done before, learn a whole lot of new skills be challenged in a way that you might not have been challenged. Think about the future in a way that you hadn't been thinking about it. And if, like, if, if COVID has done anything positive, it's it's kind of bringing us back into reality for a second that we may have gotten a little bit caught up in.

Emma  

I feel like we got pulled back 100 years, like, we've been forced back into our community having to have a conversation with our actual family every day. Yeah, being held in place, and then doing I mean, it's, you know, you literally have done all the seasons of grief, you know, you've had to go through that whole wheel. Yeah. You know, it's interesting, now that we are where we are like, what, eight months and at the recording of this, it's like, for all the crap that's going on in my life, in every in every aspect in all the whole wheel, like the whole wheel. And his life in a funny kind of way I feel the most alive and the most strong, even I've got the most reason not to. And it's I think I'm not alone in that. I mean, I don't know it's just it's something very interesting being held in place. We're being pushed back to old values, have deeper conversations, use more sensors, slow down, stop, we're taking it can all be taken away. And we've lived in such privileged times, you know, and you I grew up you know, you know, we're privileged we've had such

Will:  

traveled the world like experience so many things never like I like I mean, I know that you traveled an awful lot like I but I would you know, never be in the same city for more than three weeks in a row without like at least a work trip or a social trip away.

Emma  

No. And the remnants of that has been deep gratitude. Like I've been really loving. I don't know what's been like for you, but I've actually been really loving because Facebook helps you do that right by shoving up your old content every day, but reliving just amazing memories and It's like a whole new appreciation of the richness of life. Like, that's definitely, definitely come to me, you know for sure.

Will:  

But I will be looking forward to getting back to Ibiza.

Emma  

And I'm so happy that we managed to squeeze it in in 2019. And I'm so grateful for that, because that's sort of been the juice that sort of kept us keep us going anyway.

Will:  

So that the only the last thing I have to say, or the last thing I had to ask, I should say is, so what's kind of next on the plan for you? Like, what's the major thing that you're focusing on as we go into the final little burst of 2020?

Emma  

Yeah, well, I mean, for us as a family, where we're actually deciding if we're going to stay here in the US to be honest. Well, just I mean, just for, you know, you've always got to look at all your options, and then we've all watched, everything can can go away. So you know, that's a decision we have to make we sort of in the last few years have our green card. So we're just, you know, looking at that, you know, and to be honest, we're dispassionately looking at that we're actually looking at all the options, because that's a bit another big, you know, listen I've had during these times is, you have to look at all the options and make decisions that you know, just give it a few months of, you know, going in the wrong direction, and seeing things more things be taken away from you. And I've actually, you know, you have this new appreciation of what's really important to you, and it is the health and in the welfare of your family of your loved ones. And just the stark reality of where's business going to be. So, you know, we've got that decision to make. We'll continue on with search, and I remain open to the ways in which I can serve the world going forward. So I have no judgment and that I can't tell you what I'm actually going to be doing in two years, because I don't know, and I'm actually okay with it. But I know that I will continue to step into the space that is asked of me. And that feels quite freeing, you know, like just yeah, I mean, that's it for now. Yeah.

Will:  

Well, I think that's a wonderful place to finish it. Thank you very much, Emma for joining me, I will be having you back definitely. We'll have to pick up another topic that we'll talk about. Cheers, Emma.

Will:  

I hope you enjoyed my chat with Emma. She's an absolute fountain of knowledge. And I feel like we could have talked forever. I'll definitely be getting back on the podcast in the future. To talk about some of the areas of expertise that we didn't even get to touch on today. I love the opportunity to look ahead to the future of the fitness industry. To jump past this difficult time we find ourselves in and look at the really exciting things that are going on most especially around technology. As we talked about in our conversation, there are some worries and concerns with technological advancement that we do need to be wary of. But overall tech can have a huge positive impact on our lives. And it can get so many more people exercising than or doing so currently. The most important thing to think about, I think when it comes to advances and technology is to not see them as a threat, but rather view them as an opportunity. Just last year, many instructors would never have contemplated teaching online. But flash forward to towards the end of 2020. And technology is the one thing that's allowed us to keep doing what we do. It's the same for hearables. augmented reality and companies like Apple fitness plus. Yes, things will change. But one thing is for certain, the want, the need, the desire for personal connection will always be the strongest. So those of us that can embrace technology rather than fear it will be well prepared for what the future holds. I feel like the podcast has been delivering you loads of Kiwi accents recently. So next week, we're going to switch it up. I'm going to be talking to my very good friend Dave Cross about what it's like to be managing group fitness at the biggest gym chain in the UK, Pure Gym. Stay tuned. Thank you for listening. If you're enjoying the show, don't forget to subscribe for all the latest episodes wherever you get your podcasts. And while you're there, please drop us a review. You can also get in touch with me at will@sh1ftfitness.com. I'm Will Brereton and you've been listening to Group Fitness Real Talk.