Tracy:  

So I seek trends, and I don't go in with a mindset of being judgey. So I look for what's happening in the fitness industry. And I sort of think instead of going, okay, Is it safe? Is it you know, people get people actually getting a workout, I go in and go, okay, what's happening around me? And what's the interaction? And how people feeling about this? And did they come back again? And could I actually get a spot in that classroom on my whitelisted? And why am I whitelisted? So I sort of come from that perspective, which is more kind of overarching, what makes this a fabulous experience. And I always seek those trends and you know, try to stay connected to what's happening, what's cool.

Will:  

Hey, I'm Will Brereton, founder of SH1FT Fitness and this is Group Fitness Real Talk, a show about how to survive and even thrive as an instructor in 2020 and beyond. What's the hustle of the fitness industry like as you into your 50s that was the topic of today's podcast with guest Tracy Minnoch. But what started as a planned chat around thriving and fitness in your 50s, actually went off in a lot of different directions. And Tracy and I covered a lot of ground. Tracy's enjoyed a long career across the Asia Pacific region, and is now a super successful boutique fitness owner in Malaysia. She was full of great tips and inspiration for those running their own fitness businesses. Plus, if you're a cycling instructor, she's got some great ideas on how to create an awesome class experience. Tracy and I also talk about her experience working at Les Mills, training instructors all around the world, and the fitness industry in general in Asia. Finally, Tracy talks about her views on the fitness industry and how they're different now that she's in her 50s compared to 30 years ago, and also gives us some awesome advice on how to stay at the top of your game, no matter how long you've been around. I think there's something in this interview for everyone. So I hope you enjoy it. Okay, so Tracy Minnoch. Welcome to the podcast. How are you?

Tracy  

I am good. Thank you for having me, Will. It's nice to catch up.

Will:  

Finally. Yeah, absolutely. And so tell everyone where you're dialing in from.

Tracy  

So I'm calling from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, and I've been living here for 18 years now. And I came via Hong Kong. We didn't get to stay in Hong Kong as long as I would have liked and in the company I was working with transferred across to Malaysia. So here we are.

Will:  

So obviously, your accent probably doesn't sound to our listeners, like it comes from Kuala Lumpur or Southeast Asia, maybe tell us a little bit about your background and how you ended up where you are.

Yeah, so I'm from New Zealand, like many of the people that you've interviewed. So yeah, I'll just say in advance for the listeners that there could be the odd swear word.

Will:  

Yeah, I have to do that disclaimer on every podcast.

Tracy  

Yeah, that never leaves us really there's a time and a place for an explicative. Yeah. And that happens frequently in our lives, especially now. So I was working as the trainer manager in New Zealand, with Les Mills, and an opportunity came up to introduce the Les Mills programs into fitness first Asia. They were expanding really rapidly. So when we talk about expansion, we're talking about going from 10 clubs, to 70 clubs and five years. Wow. Um, and that was throughout Southeast Asia

Will:  

So that was new openings, or..?

Yeah, all new. All new builds. And then so that was throughout Southeast Asia. So it's multiple clubs opening in multiple countries at the same time. So when I averaged it out, it was about six every six weeks a new club would open. And what they wanted to do, what they decided was probably one of the most effective ways to introduce group fitness on a mass scale would be to have the Les Mills programs. And so I was given the opportunity to apply. And I was one of those sort of freaky people that a jack of all trades, master of none, which serves me in this situation, because I could train every Les Mills program/

Will:  

Right. So you're one of those rare people that could dance, they can pump they could cycle.

Tracy  

Yoga. Yeah, I mean, some of it. I mean, you know, to, to get myself a little bit of credit, I did have a dance and triathalon background, so

Will:  

Oh, well there you go!

Tracy  

Yeah. And it just kind of, you know, made sense to to teach those type of programs as well. So I interviewed for the role of, I guess it was head trainer for Les Mills. And the position was based in Hong Kong at the time, and I only just got married, and I was actually kind of applying for the role before I told my husband.

Will:  

Where were you living at the time you applied for the job?

Tracy  

In Wellington and well And I was working. I was working at Les Mills Wellington group fitness manager for the two clubs that they had, which was extreme. 

Will:  

Right, that would have been when I first came across you, although as we established before, we'd never actually met in person, but that was when I was at Les Mills Christchurch would have been.

Tracy  

Yeah. And so I would have been down to Christchurch it a few times. Because I was trying to manage the Les Mills New Zealand team. And that's where I met people like given and um, yeah, so people up and down the country, Susan Renata, and sort of put together the first trainer team with the support of Maureen Baker. And, um, yeah, and so I guess I thought that, that experience that opportunity to learn all about the training modules, and she wrote two training modules.

Will:  

There you go.

Tracy  

Just a little bit of a memory thing coming back. Yeah, I remember sitting I mean, one of the very first computers that I ever had was at my house in my house that I used to write the body combat module and the body jam module, so that those programs could run internationally. And I was a part of the trial team to try the program out and see how they would roll out internationally. I actually did do a little bit of international training prior to moving to Hong Kong. So I introduced body pump and body combat in Brazil. Yep. and Mexico. Mexico was Cancun. So that was fantastic.

Will:  

Spring Break, but but training.

Tracy  

Three times. Yes. I think. I mean, in March one, yeah, it was the year before I moved away, and I went in March. And then I went again in April. So I had massive amount of jetlag because you had to fly through Miami and Cancun, and but it was absolutely fantastic and amazing experience. And obviously, within me, it was like, Hey, I freaking love this stuff. This is incredible. If I can go to a country and give the gift of least most classes, and train these guys to teach these programs at with multiple languages, because not everybody spoke English and still be able to get the point across. I felt like I wanted to do more of that. So that was the catalyst and obviously having the experience meet that by the time I applied for the role in Hong Kong, I had the experience internationally. And actually I did a few other things as well, like...

Will:  

So we havne't had anyone based in Asia on the podcast yet. So maybe for the listeners that I think are primarily kind of across the UK in the USA, tell us a little bit about the fitness industry in Asia and how it compares to your experience of fitness industry in other places.

Tracy  

Yeah, I was, I mean, I'm really lucky that I got into the fitness industry when it was starting to lift off. And Asia, it was really kind of new here you would have things like programs like aerobics program, right, that was the private yoga was really big. And lots of dance programs, nothing like that, but just, you know, freestyle dance classes and, and lots of freestyle step classes. So they were probably the primary classes that you would experience if you came to Asia, um, and, you know, wide range of skill levels, and lots of talent without a doubt, but not much opportunity for them to really hone their skills. So it was really good to go in, but I came from, you know, Les Mills background, so you've got the rules, and you've got the certifications and got the assessments and everything and it's all you know, laid out for you and you rock into an environment where it's like free. And everyone has the following. And we didn't have social media of course, but you know that the trainers that I met, they had massive followings. And that was really cool to see that in hindsight, um, and then hit the ground running with Les Mills training. So to to see how the programs are integrated into it was fitness first. And it just took off. And body combat took off massively because there is a martial arts affinity in Asia, every Asian country has a martial arts. And so they just grabbed hold of that program and flew with it. So that was awesome. Because I loved it. I was teaching a lot of it at the time. 

Will:  

So you and now you actually have your own studio. Is that right? So now you're doing like a roll right back around and you're back into the more, is it more freestyle? Tell us about that?

Tracy  

Yeah. Um, so five years ago, so that was my husband, actually. Yeah, it was my husband's business. I was working for at Les Mills Asia Pacific at the time. And he decided that he wanted to go out on his own and get into the boutique fitness industry. And it was, I mean, five years ago that was like there was wasn't much of that and Asia at all. Like, I think we might have been one of the very first boutique fitness clubs in Asia 

Will:  

and we'll put a link so people can see, but what's the name of the club?

Tracy  

It's called Fire. Fire Fitness.

Tracy  

In KL in Malaysia, yeah. So we have four clubs now. But the first club opened in 2015, five years ago, um, and the concept was HIIT training a treadmill, treadmill running, HIIT training. So it will be similar to something you would see at Barries, or Orange Theory. Bbut my husband hadn't even seen those programs. He'd never gone and done those workouts. So he completely crafted the workouts from scratch. I had been to see the workout. Yeah. And I can sort of vouch even though, you know, I've done, I've done the Fire workouts, I can vouch that I felt that they were better. Yeah, I know, I'm allowed to say it. But I will say it today, I'll stand by it. And even even having done a few few Barry's classes and a few Orangetheory classes, even, you know, as late as a couple of years ago, I would still say that the Fire workouts were really, really good. And they still are really good.

Will:  

in KL

Will:  

I mean, really impacted by a social media post that you made around studio cycling. And, and this was a few years ago. So I was watching you launched fire. And all of the branding was so cool. And obviously the studio looked amazing. It was very much kind of top notch design for what was going on in the boutique space. And I think as you made a post about what was important about a cycle class, and if you boil down the most important things about a cycle class, what is it that people go for? And I think you referenced the fact that you were you know, you came from an RPM and cycling background. So obviously, you've talked about once a year, obviously, you know, performance cycles, right. And so that was and I remember back in the day when I was teaching RPM, and when I was doing cycle classes, you know, we were would wear the shorts and we would wear the cycling shirts, and it was very much around kind of mimicking cycling. And when soulcycle came along, I do remember looking at and going, "too fast, unsafe, terrible, dancing on a bike, stupid. And then I came around to it as boutique started to grow up. And I really got into this is actually really fun. And I like doing this. And obviously I have some preconceived ideas about what a cycle class should be, but you post kind of talked about, I'm not actually I, do remember the post that I'm talking about? Can you take us through the most important things of a cycle class? Because I thought this was probably the best summation of what's important in a group fitness cycling class that I'd ever seen.

Tracy  

Yeah. Okay, so when I knew that I was going to catch up with you, this is actually one of the things I was thinking about, like, how does a person who teach RPM, move across to create a boutique cycling program, right, when you've got that in ground RPM background? And I fundamentally do believe in safety? Absolutely. I believe in safety, I think far out, if I hurt the people in front of me how they're going to come back? Yeah, it's not a good business decision. But I also had the opportunity to go to soulcycle and all the other boutiques in the US and I went in with a very open mind. So I came out of RPM, and I went into, you know, soulcycle, Fly and a couple of other programs, I have one called cycle house that I absolutely love in LA, it's just phenomenal. And I was like lifting up the blanket, looking underneath and going, oh my god,

Will:  

There's this whole thing here!

Tracy  

This is amazing. And I went in with an open mind, and I knew it would be an unsafe workout for me, that would challenge my thinking, I knew that in advance and I went home thinking what else is happening in the room that makes all these people come here, and I got the lights and I got the I got my own speaker above me, you know, and I and the music was stuff that I loved. I loved the music so much and I really battled a lot with the music with RPM, um, just because you don't get the choices, right. So when it comes to freestyle cycling, you have a lot more choice you get to authentically and to express yourself through your music. I also just felt that the trainers were allowed to be themselves whoever they were, and they represented and unapologetically and obviously I'm in the US so I found it a little bit overwhelming. You know, being a kiwi, but I did embrace it. And I just felt like I am feeling this. So I left and I came back and I thought I'm gonna do I'm going to build a ride program that's going to, here's RPM at this scene, and here's soulcycle at this scene and I'm going to come somewhere in the middle. Yeah. Okay, parts of it that I love: I want it to be fashionable, I want it to be fun. I want it to be interactive, I want the trainers to feel that they can be themselves. So all these parts were really important. Now all I brought to it was a structure that was safe, but allowed them to be all those other parts. So the structure gives the the workout, the workout structure gives the guaranteed results, the safety and, you know, keeps people engaged. But the other part is really important, which is what we wanted to talk about. And I was able to flip the whole recruitment patch around, it became really important to me when I was recruiting people to teach ride, that if I sat down and had a conversation with them, if they could make me crack up laughing in the first minute, I felt like we could probably do something, you know, I wasn't hiring or recruiting based on their experience on a bike I was recruiting based on how much fun am I having in this interview right now? Yeah, you know, and I found that people that really loved music, that were DJs, that were radio posts, that were on TV, that were social media influencers that they loved fitness. And it just sounds so opposite to what I was used to where I was coming from, you know, my whole history.

Will:  

I mean, I completely understand this, because this is a journey that I've really been on to I kind of got into fitness and thought that the most important thing about being group fitness instructor is being the most impressive physical role model you can possibly be. I mean, we're going to talk a little bit about this later on. So I don't want to sort of jump in early. But as you get older, you realize that that isn't the most important thing. But anyway, let's let's circle back to that later and continue on the cycle thing, because I think you've got really interesting things to say about how to create a great cycle experience. And I know that there are a cycle instructors who listen to this.

Tracy  

Yeah, so that that was the first part, which was the recruitment of the rock star trainers. And we've always spoken of them as rock stars. And so when we put together the branding, I wanted to talk about and I wanted to show that people would come in and have an amazing interactive experience and feel a connection with the trainer and have a party on the bike, but they wouldn't be lifting the arms away from the handlebars. That wouldn't happen. And we won't do the double time tapbacks.

Will:  

Very hard for guys, by the way, I feel that the double time tapbacks are only ever programmed for females, just saying,

Tracy  

and maybe that's why it's mostly female. And I wonder if I thought about that. I just think about that. This can't be good. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I get guys in the room. So obviously, we're not doing double time. Um, so yeah, I felt like, another part to it was, anytime I taught her cycle class, at the 30 minute mark, I started getting a bit bored. Um, it just was a thing for me. And I don't know whether it's like maybe I've got a little bit of ADHD or never thought about it before. But I would, I would often when I was teaching a normal cycle class, get to the 30 minute mark, and feel like you know what, I want to get off, but I want to do something else.

Will:  

Yeah, yeah.

Tracy  

And so it started to percolate, that I was going to pull together a program that maybe wasn't just riding. So there wasn't a lot of hybrid cycle classes out there. Yeah. And so we're talking like, we launched four years ago, ride HIIT and ride yoga. But I was training in my backyard. And I thought, you know, what, if I can do a 30 minute workout, make it a little bit more intense. And then get off the bike and train properly for 10 minutes with weights or a suspension trainer or variation of equipment and properly train my upper body and properly train my core.

Will:  

Right. So I really think that you that your view of the hand weights track wasn't that it was necessary.

Tracy  

I think it's really cute.

Will:  

Yeah.

Tracy  

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I like to have fun. I mean, without a doubt, I mean, I still go to those I still go to. Now here's another thing. When we launched we, in the market, people said, Oh, you guys are like RPM, because we don't do the dancer fight choreography. So we got linked to rpm. And that also means that people felt that we did not ride with rhythm, which is completely not true. Our ride program is you ride to the beat. Right, right. Well, it is but there were parts of it where you could ride to your own pace and I'm like, nah, you got to ride to the beat man, as soon as that beat drops, you're on it. And if you're not on it, there's a problem.

Will:  

Are you one of those people that if there is a beat find it very difficult to not be on the beat because I am definitely... 

Tracy  

I struggled so much, I struggled so much...

Will:  

Speakin of Bevan, when him and I used to teach together Bevan made the comment in the podcast that he did with me that you know, his his choreo his and his timing didn't used to be the best. And I would teach with Bevan and when he would go on the offbeat. And then oh yeah, you want to do that thing you do when you're team teaching, which is you honor the person with the microphone and you go on their timing even when it's really wrong. 

Tracy  

But now you look so bad!

Will:  

But I'd do it. And so Bevin will be on the offbeat, and I'd be trying to do the off beat. And I just keep getting back into the on beat. And I'm like, ehhh!

Tracy  

yeah, that was like that for us as well. I mean, we do write to the beat. So we alternate between writing the heavy beat and then picking up the pace to write it double time to get the intensity. Yeah, so it's a combination of it. Yeah, and then, you know, I do, I do go to rhythm writing classes and boutiques, because I have friends that teach and I go for the enjoyment I, my friends that come to my class, they also go to other boutique studios, and we go together, it's a really awesome kind of environment in KL, where I feel personally, a lot of the boutique cycling instructors support each other. And we think we're there for each other. We recently did a big charity event where we had 8 boutique cycling studios all raising money together for charity.

Will:  

Working together? 

Tracy  

Well everyone taught in their own studio. But it was over an eight hour period, and it was all on social media. So I think that that's awesome. And that was done even during through COVID. So we couldn't all be together. So we decided, hey, look, let's teach a class and raise funds for this animal charity. So there is quite a good community for boutique cycling. And for the instructors, they know each other we go to each other's classes. And so I still enjoy the 45 minute ride, I have fun with the cute little hand weights, I don't get a lot out of the air conditioning on the bike, you know, from a physiological physical educators perspective, I'm like, always want to get down and do my planks on the floor. So our studio, you probably saw pictures of our studio was developed. So we could do both. Yeah, we have a rig in the studio. So we can do suspension training, we have a whole lot of equipment built out. And we just have 16 bikes in 16 spots, so that you can train on the floor as well. So it is very small boutique. But um, we always start boutique would be 20. And that we could really interact with people in that way. So yeah, you'll do 30 minutes. And then you'll do 10 minutes of training. And you'll do seven minutes of yoga. And then we have the other program, which is ride yoga.

Will:  

I love the idea of a hybrid class. That's what we've just done with SH1FT actually is we've changed all the apps so that our instructors can basically teach a L1FT class. And then they can bolt on 10 minutes of a SH1FT class and 10 minutes of a M1ND. So they basically do some lifting followed by 10 minutes, followed by 10 minutes of mobility or flexibility or stability. And we've we've I've been creating this app was an absolute nightmare. anyone's ever done app development, I'm sure you understand, yeah. But what you can basically pull whatever workouts you want into a playlist and then move the playlist around so that they're just ordered perfectly. And so it kind of gives combinations you can do like a rise sort of step HIIT, followed by mobility followed by a finisher or whatever, whatever you want to do with your classes. But um, well

Tracy  

It's gonna keep you really busy. Because you're gonna have to keep making lots of little, little workouts like, like 10 minute workouts

Will:  

For me, the older I get, the more novelty I kind of want and I'm looking for and the less I'm necessarily wanting to focus on just, you know, training the same things, because I think that's what will work. And that's actually what brought me to doing the type of cycling that the first time I went to those rhythm rides the soulcycle style, I have to admit, my eyes popped out of my head and I'm like, what are we doing? This isn't gonna work out. And I realized that it was more about the connection with the instructor, the connection with the music, the fact that you could lose yourself in a dark room. And I yeah, even though I am probably quite well known now for creating formats that don't have music attached to them. I am a music based person like I that's what I do. I have I think we've talked about this. I have a body bike in my flat and in the morning, I get up, I put on a playlist and I just freestyle ride to it. And I find myself and this is great, Cory I could totally do this in a class.

Tracy  

Yeah, I have a body bike on my balcony. Yeah, and it's awesome. I love training outside. It's so hot here.

Will:  

So before we move on to some other stuff, I just thought I'd ask for the purpose of the listeners because they're probably interested how's the situation with Coronavirus on lockdown affecting fitness in Asia at the moment.

Tracy  

Okay, so we did go into a serious 12 week lockdown in April. So April, May June we locked down which means all fitness clubs were closed schools were closed. So it was like legit 90 days. Um, what we didn't do during lockdown is but it's something really funky. So some about boutique Some of our clubs have digital support in the studio, which means that as the trainer is training the workout, you can also see it on a TV screen, the same exercise. So in January, so

Will:  

Ah, so they're like filming the instructor from another angle or --

Tracy  

No, no. So in January, I shot 1700 exercises that we would use in six days, and the train is smashed, and they're so fit, they so fit, so they're awesome. And we did that for Barre as well, which was our new program. So we shot all the different variations of exercises that you could do with a kettlebell with a dumbbell suspension, China with a Barre, everything you could possibly shoot in six days, we did it. And then what that means that was that when the trainer teachers, there's also a visual on a couple of TV screens around the studio. So we took those videos, and this was so locked down in April, within two weeks, we were able to piece together a lot of the videos to create online workouts.

Will:  

And you didn't create the videos with that in mind, you created them with your purpose and... right got it

Tracy  

No, in studio purpose and for international licensing. Yeah. Because that's happening now. So, um, what we did is we, we, my husband, and I became video editors, DJs and we did the commentary. So we put together all the videos. And we did the commentary over the top we and we had so much fun because we key we so we decided we're not going to be serious about this, we don't know if this is going to go anywhere else. And this will keep our fire members engaged. And it was hilarious. But we also had to add music. And so that's when you find out about the whole music licensing rights thing. You know, so we've learned a lot along the way. And we did that for six weeks. And then when we were given permission to go into one of the studios and start shooting online classes, we went straight away. So we had all the equipment, we were able to get the platform that we weren't happy with. We obviously had our own license free music by that stage. And we started charging from the beginning online workouts. And we've always had that now and it's still going now. 

Will:  

So you're back in studio now? Do you have restrictions on capacity and all that sort of stuff?

Tracy  

Yes. So after three months, restrictions were lifted, we were managing, managed to open up all the fitness clubs. And so we had four clubs in multiple studios and each club with different workouts, the capacity, and our biggest studio dropped 50% because it's a treadmill running class. And so most of the time you got everyone on the treadmill, half the people on the treadmill have people on the floor and then they switch. We don't do that. So we had that for us as the biggest challenge. With our cycle class. It's it's 80% capacity at the moment, which is great. It's only two bikes out. Because that studio was so big. Yeah. Right. And then the bar class. I don't know if you do the same pictures or images about last year. Yeah, absolutely gorgeous. And it's got all these lighting strips that divide the floor and we were within the SOPs for the distance between lightning strips. Yeah, so we don't change a thing. So that's running at 100% capacity. So in some studios, it's 50. And some and it's probably averaged 75% capacity. Now, we're in a semi lockdown situation, the numbers have spiked considerably, but not in Kuala Lumpur. Okay, so it's a state, which is if you can imagine, you've got New Zealand and you've got Australia. So there's a part of Malaysia, which is like Australia, and that's the distance away for us. And they have hundreds of cases. And in Kuala Lumpur, we might get four or five, not more than 10 cases.

Will:  

So this is interesting for for anyone that's listening to this in the US or the UK or Europe, where obviously cases are surging in Kuala lumper, you're still operating under some form of restrictions, even though you've got almost no cases and have been fairly steady for a while now. Yeah. So that's correct. With that in mind, how does that inform your decision about what you'll do with digital and virtual, obviously, something we've talked about on the podcast a lot, but I'm curious to hear like, given that you're still not back up to full capacity in all your studios. How do you feel about having a hybrid or digital model as you move forward? Even though there's very little well?

Tracy  

Look, I'm 100% behind it, and I was years ago.

Will:  

Yeah. 

Tracy  

Yeah, so this is not a new, it's not a new area. I you know, I've only been able to actively participate in creating well being a part of the hybrid model since Corona.

Will:  

Because you're too busy doing all the other stuff.

Tracy  

Yeah, but before Corona I'm actually part of a team in a fitness app? So being involved in digital fitness and presenting workouts internationally --

Will:  

We'll link to it in the show notes so people can take a look. So this app is called...?

Tracy  

It's called Fio. And the app is actually owned, and the brainchild of Joanna Seau and Joanna is Asia's most followed YouTube fitness, influencer. Okay, so she has a massive following. And that's grown incredibly, also during COVID. But year on year, she would be rewarded by YouTube for her following. And she decided to create a fitness tracker subscription based fitness app. And she pulled in a team of trainers of which I'm one of them. I think I'm probably we're going to talk a little bit later about sort of aging. But I think probably one of the cool things about being a part of that is she wanted a range of trainers that could offer a range of workouts and in in someone that I'm related to everyone. So I'm kind of that that older female, they've actually actually put...

Will:  

So let's segue into that because this is something that I did like I know that we both wanted to talk about, because I think it's a really interesting thing for a lot of people within the fitness industry. So what you're talking about so far as you obviously had a long career been involved with Less Mills training instructors at the highest level, you've also got a boutique studio, which is kind of cutting edge and cool. And you're a trainer on a youtubers fitness platform. So you're very much still kind of at the cutting edge of what fitness is in terms of coolness, but you're obviously not as young as a lot of the people that are showcased in these things. So tell me a little bit about your experience of being a female who is getting older, like just to be honest, getting older, but staying relevant. And at the front of the fitness industry. How have you managed that? And what are your learnings from it?

Tracy  

Yeah, so I mean, I have a lot of really amazing female role models, and I still do and I still look up to them. And I still honor them female fitness role models, people that have really looked out for me as well. And, um, but when I hit my early 40s, and you know, you can sort of start to feel the wear and tear on your body and you're still training at a really high intensity. I also started to think, Okay, so those role models that are, you know, older than me, where, where are they hitting? What's the trajectory? What does that look like? And I really started to, you know, mull it over and think about, what about me, and that, you know, what do I want to be doing? Yeah, when I'm like, late 40s and 50s. And just for the record, I'm 50 and I turned 50 this year!

Will:  

Congratulations!

Tracy  

Yeah, thank you. And it was not the 50th I had planned. 

Will:  

No, I mean, it's a bad year for a big for a big birthday celebration, isn't it? Dammit.

Tracy  

But we did have a wonderful, wonderful celebration and Kuala Lumpur despite the fact I was not supposed to be in Kuala Lumpur. And I did get to celebrate Emmit's 50th and I beat that.

Will:  

Ah, right, which she's been throwing back to on on Instagram. Basically, every day I've seen and I don't blame her at all.

Tracy  

Yeah. It's I started to think about, um, you know, what would that mean for me when I also came into my 50s the other part is, I'm actually really young at heart. I am, I love music, I love clubbing I love the dance floor, I love concepts. And those things are life to me, you know, like to be a part of a live concert, or to be on the dance floor. It's it just fuels me it. I can go out dancing, comeback and have a million ideas of pulling workouts together. I don't know how it just kind of all comes together. So I think by putting myself in those situations as frequently as I can, it really does keep me kind of youthful and connected. So I seek trends, and I don't go in with a mindset of being judgey. So I look for what's happening in the fitness industry. And I sort of think instead of going okay, Is it safe? Is it you know, people get people actually getting a workout, I go ahead and go, okay, what's happening around me? And what's the interaction? And how people feeling about this? And did they come back again, and I actually get a spot in that classroom on my waitlist and why am I waitlisted? So I sort of come from that perspective, which is more kind of overarching, what makes this a fabulous experience. And I always seek those trends and you know, trying to stay connected to what's happening and what's cool. I was also challenged just a few years ago to get into digital fitness in some way. So, you know, that was a couple of years ago, like like yourself well where you had this belief that you couldn't teach beyond a live audience that you wouldn't be able to do the same thing and have the same effect and bring joy to people and movement by teaching on a screen. But I was challenged about that. So I got into Fio, one of the trainers and realized that there were people all over the world that were loving the workouts that I was putting together. So that kicked me also thinking, hey, there's something in this. And then now with Corona, it's a really big part of what I'm doing now, which is I'm coaching other trainers to deliver amazing workouts through the screen. I'm still doing it myself. aims, the lightest thing that I launched this year was a new Barre program. And that that feels like it's come full circle, because I was a dancer. And the ballet studio couldn't figure out the right from left. Um, but yeah, I mean, I think it's like, you know, if it's a deep passion, and you know, that you can contribute still to the fitness industry, then why not? 

Will:  

Sorry, no, continue. I don't want to break you thought.

Tracy  

I still, I mean, I still question like, when's my end day, you know, to the physical showing up and doing the workout? It could be any day. And the fact that I wake up every day, and I actually really love whether it's a live class or on screen class. I'm really loving it. I don't take it for granted. And my classes are still full. So -- I'll be back next week, then.

Will:  

Are there any, so as as you said, you're 50. Are there any times when you have felt that your age has been an issue with any of the roles that you've had in fitness or any opportunities that you have found not to be as open as they used to be?

Tracy  

I'm, I'm acutely aware of how it is how I perceived today. I'm with the boutiques issue, boutique cycling, and all my comrades are a lot younger than me like we're talking 20 years. Yeah. And yeah, and I feel like, you know, I'm acutely aware of that. But yeah, I like I said it, there'll be a day when I do hang up my cycling shoes. And I think it's coming soon. But I think where my greatest assets lies in coaching other people, and it's always been that, like, I've always done that. So being able to lift my game, maybe in that area, and online training. That's an opportunity as well. So I don't have to be that face out there. You know, I don't feel that anyway. I'm just really lucky that that I'm still on the schedule.

Will:  

Did you have that? Did you have that when you were when you were younger? Like Did you have the kind of I want to be up the front? I want to be the star or was that never a massive driver for you? Were you always driven by other things?

Tracy  

One Hundred percent.

Will:  

Okay, cool. Cuz I feel that there's no shame in that, right. Like, I think most of us got into fitness because we were like, Wow, it must be so cool to be at the front of the class, like holding your runs attention and doing this fun stuff. I want to be that.

Tracy  

Well, I just saw it as an extension of performance. Yeah. Right. Because I was a dancer performing on stage competing every weekend.

Will:  

Oh yeah, aerobics competitions, too. I've seen these photos. Yeah.

Tracy  

Yeah. So you know, from dance to aerobics, and it was all like, big face, big hair. Big eyes, big smile. And so that was that was just a natural extension, the, you know, the only thing The only difference is you had to talk and tell people to come along with you for the ride, you know, will come along with you for the workout. So, you know, yeah, absolutely wanted to perform. And the deep connection that I had with music means that that was obviously my, my biggest strength. And I had to work quite hard on the coaching side. Bloody nice to teach now and not think too much about that and just get the bare bones to the bare basics. Now it's all back to fun.

Will:  

Oh yeah, we've talked about this a little bit part of the things that if you haven't listened to the Susan Renata podcast, then go back and listen to it. We'll stick a link in the show notes. But this is part of the discussion that Susan I had, right. Like we, when you've started a little bit before me, but I would consider myself back in that time when the most important things were fun and charisma and intensity I think. Like, it was very important to teach a hard class. Like you want it to be sweaty. Yeah. And then through the sort of 2000s it got very technique focused kind of late like 2000, 2010. And then when CrossFit and HIIT came in, everyone was like, oh, I guess we're not so much focused on that, people are just gonna do crazy things. And now it's almost swung right back around to experience and it's nice, right? Because at the end of the day, yeah, I mean, like the, I have come around to the very strong belief that the important thing about exercise is people doing it, and therefore, it's not important that it is absolutely perfect. What's important is that people get up off the couch and are motivated to do it. I follow a guy on Instagram. I'm not gonna call him out. But he and I think he's really great. Like, I follow him because his mobility and flexibility stuff is really amazing. But he had a book on HIIT. And he basically did an Instagram post about how all these bodyweight circuits bodyweight circuit HIIT, aren't really hit because you can only do HIIT on a treadmill or swimming or a stationary bike, because otherwise you don't get into the proper training intensity. And I read it and I was like, Okay, I get where you're coming from, like, scientifically, I get you're correct, like if you're gonna do to TABATA it has to be TABATA on a treadmill, or on a bike or an assault bike or something where you've got a single point of motion, because the minute you're jumping, there's too much complexity to hit the top end. But I feel that that's really elitist. I'm very much at the other end of, which is I don't really care about whether or not the science is correct. I care about that person who might not have exercised otherwise getting up off the couch and participating.

Tracy  

Yeah, and for them it's HIIT. Right? 

Will:  

Walking, briskly could be HIIT.

Tracy  

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, I agree. And I mean, it's there's so much freedom and being able to express yourself. And I think that's probably the greatest thing I got out of moving across from from Less Mills, not that I never expressed myself, I always did, but I was so so up in my head and conscious around the things that I felt I needed to say and tick all the boxes, yep, that I lost a lot of the opportunity to really deeply connect. Yeah. And now I feel like I, you know, I get on the bike, or I go into the studio, or what, even on camera, I'm just imagining that people are talking back at me, and we're having a good time.

Will:  

I do that as well.

Tracy  

And the shit that comes out of my mouth is, and I don't second guess myself anymore. I'm just like, in the moment, and sometimes teaching, right? I could go a whole minute without saying anything, because the music's so good, why would I kill it? You know, so, and I can see the people in front of me how they're so engaged in it as well. And it's so joyful. It's such a joyful experience, you know, so I think I didn't, I didn't listen to quite a few of your podcasts. And I'm massive fans of everyone you've interviewed. And it feels like I'm listening to conversations with my friends. I think I had a smile on my face from beginning to end on every single interview. But one thing that I remember Bevin talked about, which is you've got to make sure that you have a business. Yeah. Yeah. And I would say, you know, as you're aging in the fitness industry, I agree with that. And I've had that opportunity to do that. And, also to not, to not stop growing, you know, like, just because I'm 50. And there is kind of a cap on the physicality of what I'm doing. And that, without a doubt, that is, I mean, I take a lot longer to recover. I don't teach as many classes as I used to, but the ones I do teach, I have so much fun, you know, but I continue to grow and teach myself more skills to get the workouts out into the world. And, you know, Corona has given us this opportunity to, you know, really learn the skills around digital fitness, and it's here to stay.

Will:  

I completely agree. One of my one of my new shift instructors did their assessment, and part of the assessment for shift is you do a small video assessment. And it's basically three moves, it's tuck jump, skater and high knee run backwards and forwards like three like classic moves. And the key is they just need to demonstrate it, coach it safely and then sort of move on, it's very much a show me that you can do it. You can like execute it by execute it and coach it safely to make sure that people are getting an effective workout, they move on. And someone submitted the video and then sent me a message on the side going I'm really sorry, my tuck jumps aren't very good. And you know, I know they should be better. And I just remember thinking I like I'm so glad that you sent that to me because now I get the opportunity to send it back and go look, tuck jumps are the least important thing like if you just want to do any variation of a tuck jump and coach what a tuck jump would look like. But the very fact that you struggle with the tuck jump, but you're getting up on camera and showing that you're still going to participate in this and do it there's so many people that you have a connection to that, that wouldn't feel a connection to someone who just jumps up and does an amazing job. Because most of the people that like the people that are doing fitness already are such a small percentage of the people that we need to bring into fitness and bringing people into fitness really does require that there's a variety of role models of all ages of all stages of all fitness levels and seeing and someone who's on the couch and will never tuck jumps and not attainable to them. Maybe ever depending on how old they are. But certainly not now seeing someone else saying I struggle with this but I'm going to do it anyway and I really enjoy it is much more meaningful than a 25 year old with abs and a crop top doing an amazing tuck jump.

Tracy  

Yeah, no, I agree with it. I mean, I often express my I don't, when I'm teaching, I don't express my age and how it affects me, I just openly express how my body's feeling. Because I know that they're feeling it too. I mean, I'm a fit person. So, you know, if I'm feeling it, and I can express it, you know, through my words, and my voice and my body, then I think that that really lands with people. They're like, Oh, wow, she's feeling this. And I'm feeling this. This is good. And the connection is there, whether it's through camera or whether it's live. So yeah, so

Will:  

So, one last question around staying relevant. As I know, it's something that we've covered up in previous podcasts, too. As a 50 year old in the fitness industry, how has your relationship with social media developed and changed? Like how do you how do you find that element of that necessary element of being a fitness professional at a, at an advanced advancing age?

Tracy  

Okay, so I just keep real with myself, and I don't really think I'm relevant. Social media. I'm just gonna be honest, so I don't think I'm relevant. But what I do get out of it is I can tell people about stuff. So if I want them to know that something's happening, and I want to tag a few people, so because I don't want them to miss out, because I know that they'd be pissed off if they missed out. Oh, that's how I use it. If I want to tell people something that I know about fitness. And I know a lot, you know, and I think I authentically share with someone, some information, you know, about fitness or health or whatever, I think I speak from a genuine place because people do look to me as a female role model. Yeah, so I use social media in that way. And I know that it's, I am educating, I'm sharing. And I share a little bit about myself, and my journey and fitness. And I think because I'm in boutique fitness, I think that's, that's a part of what we do. And when we come on as trainers with fire, we do do some social media training. Because we require the trainers to reach out to a fan base and tell them about the classes. I mean, everybody wants a full class, this is the way to do it. 

Will:  

It's free marketing, right? Like Yeah, that's kind of I'm not a huge fan of social media and I but I know that it is, it's simply a channel to get what you want to give to the world out to a wider audience. And so there's not really, you know, you can choose to not embrace it, but then you're just cutting yourself off to all these other people that you can help. But uh, yeah, but I do. Yeah, for sure. So I'm coming to the end of our discussion all that's left for me to ask is what's next for Tracy? Like what's in the plans for 2021?

Tracy  

Ha.

Will:  

Asking someone what their future plans are in 2020 is cruel, isn't it?

Tracy  

Yes, I think we can think of it as 2021 as an extension. Okay, so just to clarify, so our company was bought a year ago, we sold to a bigger conglomerate. Good timing. Yeah, and all our staff is still working with us. So we're really lucky. Um, so I'm now employed and working with evolution, wellness. And one of our biggest challenges is when we license fire internationally, how do we train the trainer's?

Will:  

Right.,

Tracy  

So I am working on a project to develop an online training? It's an app.

Will:  

I know this well! 

Tracy  

Yeah, yeah. We're just saying at the beginning, right, so um, so that's my next project at the moment. And I think it's really good. It's teaching me a lot It helps to I ask the questions. If I am learning this from a distance, how do I feel about what I'm seeing, hearing, reading, and what you're asking me to do? So I'm trying to use as many interactive tools as possible to help people understand what it means to be a fire coach and successfully gone to teach our programs and the location where I may never get to see them.

Will:  

Right.

Tracy  

So yeah, so I think that's my challenge. Now, that's the project that I'm on. I'm really grateful for the opportunity, because I'm learning a lot along the way.

Will:  

And so you have 4 Fires in in Kuala Lumpar? Are they? Well, yep. And then so where do you think the next location might be? Or is it secret? Will it be secret? 

Tracy  

It's a secret! Well, I think that the opportunity in Asia is really good because boutique was still growing. Yeah. Um, and the COVID situation is relatively good here. It's, you know,

Will:  

It feels slightly better than the way it's being managed up here. 

Tracy  

Yeah, I mean, it's good. I mean, Singapore's good. Vietnam is like New Zealand. Thailand is amazing. So, all the markets are open and fitness but obviously with limited capacity. I'm so You know, would make sense that we would be able to expand throughout Southeast Asia, but we're also looking at continents closer to us. And I have to keep thinking about, you know, if we gave a trainer this tool, would they successfully be able to go on and teach one of our programs just through that tool without ever coming into fire? And I think, you know, it's an opportunity, it's going to take me a little bit of time. After that, I, you know, like you Will, I'm heading to New Zealand. So I think there's something an amazing, you know, breath of fresh air. Yeah, that's going to invigorates me, I think, mentally and emotionally that might help me figure out where to from here.

Will:  

Well, I think that is a fantastic place to finish, because that's certainly the same hope that I have gone back to New Zealand, I think I like, but listeners of the podcast will know that I did the podcast with Sasha, where I was kind of viewing my 14-day self isolation as a prison. But I have to say that, yeah, that as things have changed in the Northern Hemisphere, and as I have reflected on my conversation with Sasha, and also put into play some of the mindset things she talked about, I'm now seeing it as an opportunity to kind of, like focus on a few things that I haven't done this year, like learning French, and, and then getting that massive, massive privilege of spending a summer in New Zealand, where COVID kind of doesn't exist. I think, like we have as a New Zealand citizen, we've got like, the ultimate COVID privilege, right?

Tracy  

I know, I know, 60 days before I go.

Will:  

No that you're counting? 

Tracy  

No I am. Because you know, and also, I have to finish this project, the pilot level. So it's kind of good. It's keeping me busy. And it's

Will:  

So that's you kind of going full circle, right, I starting off with writing manuals and writing procedures, and then going through all the boutique. And now you're back to writing those training manuals again, but presumably, with a significantly larger fount of knowledge to pull on.

Tracy  

I think it's real. I mean, as I'm writing and typing, I get sometimes I get a bit emotional, because I'm sharing everything I've ever learned, and all the experiences I've ever had, and I'm condensing it down to the most effective way to communicate. Um, and so it does get me quite emotional sometimes because it feels like it's a legacy project.

Will:  

Yeah. And it is! Well, thank you very much, Tracy, it was wonderful to have you on the podcast. Maybe I'll see you in New Zealand.

Tracy  

Let's catch up in New Zealand. We might not be able to come back depending on rules around coming back to Malaysia. So yeah, I'm hoping I can come back but wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

Will:  

Thank you, Tracy. So that was my chat with Tracy. She has had such an interesting career and shows no signs of slowing down anytime soon. What I love about Tracy is that she's happy to own the fact that she might not be as irrelevant or cool anymore. But she doesn't try to be she knows exactly what is needed to deliver an incredible fitness experience. And because of that authenticity, she actually ends up delivering some of the most relevant and current fitness experiences I've ever seen. Look no further than the latest fire fitness bar studio for proof of that. That sort of knowledge, expertise, presence, and focus is something that comes with experience. But as we've talked about a lot on this podcast, everyone has the opportunity to create authenticity. You just need to reflect on why you do what you do and who you are trying to help. Next up on the podcast, I have a real treat for you guys. Long term friend of both Tracy and myself and one of my biggest fitness mentors, Emma Berry on the future of fitness. This is one that you're not going to want to miss. Thank you for listening. If you're enjoying the show, don't forget to subscribe for all the latest episodes wherever you get your podcasts. And while you're there, please drop us a review. You can also get in touch with me at will@sh1ftfitness.com. I'm Will Brereton and you've been listening to Group Fitness Real Talk.