Danielle  

I'm giving you pieces of me, but not all of me. I think as fitness instructors as just any personal brand on the internet, we need to be okay with that -- we're giving pieces of you. But when we give you pieces of us, it's an authentic piece. Right? It's us showing up as us, not trying to be, or pretend to be somebody else.

Will:  

Hey, I'm Will Brereton, founder of Sh1ft Fitness and this is Group Fitness Real Talk, a show about how to survive and even thrive as an instructor in 2020 and beyond. Have you found that your relationship with social media has changed since COVID? We've been cut off from seeing the members of our community in person. And if you're anything like me, you might have found yourself scrolling through your social feed more often than you did before the world changed, just to feel a little bit of that interpersonal connection that's been sadly lacking in 2020. In today's episode, I'm interviewing my good friend Danielle Natoni, former format expert for Insanity live and a person that I've often looked to for inspiration when thinking about how I put myself forward on social media. In this episode, Danielle talks, frankly, about the reframing of her relationship with social since COVID. And the new strategy, she's put in place to make sure that her time online is something that adds to her life, rather than taking away from it. As a fitness instructor, social media is a necessary tool for building your profile now more than ever, but it's not something that comes naturally to everyone. And you hear both Danielle and I talk about some of the anxiety we have about building a personal brand online, and how to find the right balance between building your business and sharing with your community -- and taking care of yourself in an environment that does have its downsides. The thing I've always loved most about Danielle is her authenticity, she tells it as she sees it. And there are some great takeaways in this episode to help you formulate the best way to approach building your brand with confidence, and in a way that brings you joy, and allows you to share that with the world. 

Will:  

So Danielle Natoni, welcome to the show. How are you?

Danielle  

Good. I'm so excited to talk to you today.

Will:  

Me too. I feel like we've communicated over social media. But we haven't actually had a proper chat in a couple of years now.

No, we and I, you know, I just love that about, you know, we have not had a proper chat. I feel like everything is just so much fancier when you say it?

Will:  

That's good. I mean, I don't think that anybody from England thinks that with my Kiwi --and, but I appreciate that you do. So tell me how are you coping in 2020?

Danielle  

You know, 2020 has been an interesting year, to say the least. But I will say this, I am fortunate. And I was not affected in a way that hit me viscerally. So what I will say is I am coping just fine. Because I know that there are so many people that were affected and hit and hurt in much deeper ways. And so my heart goes out to those people. And all I can do is try to help, you know, as many people as I can get through it with positivity and an open mindset.

Will:  

Yeah, I think I've been obviously talking to a few people and some of the other interviews that I've done. Even the people who recognize the kind of privilege and how fortunate they are to not be in a bad position. It's still knocked everyone around right, like just your expectations of what this year was going to bring have just been swept away, regardless of who you are or where you are.

Danielle  

I think it's just heavy. That's the word I would describe this year. It's like, all the compilation of everything, especially living in America. It's heavy. And--

Will:  

Yeah. Yeah, that's a topic for another podcast. But yeah, I forget that there's that added layer of complexity where you are.

Danielle  

Yeah, and it's just heavy. And you know, and heavy, it's heavy, no matter, you know, where you are, what your lifestyle is, or, you know, heavy is just that. You can feel the weight of the world kind of pressing down on you in every moment of every day. And at that's how I would describe this year.

Will:  

Yeah, I think that is a very apt description. So a lot of the people that are listening to this are going to know exactly who you are, but just in case people haven't come across you before. Do you want to give a quick summary of how you got into fitness and sort of what you've been up to?

Danielle  

Sure. Hi, my name is Daniel Natoni. And I'm probably best known for my involvement in the Insanity live brand. I actually came to fitness a little over a decade ago, as someone who loved fitness like I always loved it, but just didn't have a career in it. I was an elementary school teacher looking for a secondary stream of income. Thankfully, I didn't know that group fitness instructors don't do it for the money. And yeah, I got certified to teach. My first format which was turbo kick, which was Chalene Johnson's program, I know you had Michelle Park on already. And so at that certification, I kind of fell in love with all things fitness. From there I got certified in PiYo. And then I just kept getting certified in everything I could get my hands on. And I still kind of live in that mindset today. From there, I did the at home version of Insanity, went from fit to fitter got asked to be a transformation story in the infomercial. On that set of that infomercial, I met who would eventually become my future husband, and became really good friends with the creator of the program, Shaun T. From there, he asked me to be in his home program -- it is like the hardest home program ever.

Will:  

It totally is. Obviously there's nowhere near enough room and apartment in Europe to do that program. But I have done the Beachbody hit offices in the in the gym there before and it is tough.

Danielle  

Yeah. And then from there, that is when Beachbody acquired Chalene's company Powder Blue Productions and so they took over hip hop hustle, piyo and turbo kick. And at that same time, they thought, you know, insanity would make a really great group fitness format, which they were correct. It was a perfect for the group fitness studio. And so at that time, Shaun asked if I would become the format expert and program director. So for the pretty much the eight years that insanity live existed, I developed, created and filmed those workouts taught to instructors worldwide. I also was the master trainer. So I would travel the country, certifying people in that format. And insanity just kind of became my baby, I always tell Shaun, he created insanity, but insanity live was mine. But still to this day, I love fitness, teaching group fitness is probably my favorite thing to do. And there's just something so magical about it. But I'm certified in, you know, cycling, and I have my 200 hour yoga certification, and actually, this weekend, I'm going to get animal flow certified. Oh, yeah, anytime I can. I love movement, it's probably the best way for me to put it. But people have different hobbies. And if you were to ask me what my hobby is, I would say it's moving, like, I just love movement.

Will:  

I would have said learning. Yeah, especially when learning and moving get put together.

Danielle  

Yeah, when you combine the two together, it's like the perfect match. So still here still teaching fitness, you know, dabbling in it online, I'll be honest, it's not the same. It's just not like, there's a version of it, it's cool. And there's a version of it. That's and I know, that's where the world's going. But there, and yes, there's human connection. But you know, there's just still something so magical about that moment in time in the classroom. And I hope that at some point, the world can blend the two together, where we can still be really profound and virtual, but we can have our moments of actual, you know, coming together, and in the class. So anyway, that's where I'm at. And that's where I came from.

Will:  

So one of the reasons thank you for that, by the way, we are so excited to have you on is that you have been a bit of an inspiration for me over the I think eight years that we've known each other in terms of your brand online, because you sort of have your own brand, you've been representative of other brands. And obviously you work as a Beachbody Coach, and you have team fit and funky. So you work with, you know, hundreds of coaches across the country. I know you one of the most successful coaches in that regard. But you also have developed a very authentic sort of personal brand online, and I've watched you do it over the years. And one of the things that there are numerous things that have struck me, which I'd love to talk about. But one of the things is the confidence and realness with which you present yourself online. And also, and we'll talk about this, and maybe it's a separate point. But you're you go through experiences where you learn new things, and you're just so open about trying something new and whether or not it worked, and you just have no, there's no second guessing, saying that you got something wrong or that you tried something fresh, and it's just such a refreshing approach to social media. So winding all that back, because there's a lot to unpack there. The first thing I want to know is did you always have such self assuredness and self confidence, which is always what I think of when I think of you?

Danielle  

Well, first of all, thank you, I take that as a immense compliment. Secondly, you know, it's, it's interesting, I do get asked that question a lot like Have you always been this confident? What I would say is, to a degree, I've always had confidence even in my lowest moments I have always believed in who I am and what I'm capable of. With that being said, Please also know I go through my moments of self doubt. I go through low moments. Just like anyone else, but at the core, I know who I am. And I know what I'm capable of. And so there's never been a moment where I don't say the nasty things to myself that I know a lot of people, especially women say, because they know how damaging that can be. So, yes, to some degree, I've always been confident. But the other thing that I would say is, every year, I probably step into that a little bit more. You know, for me, I'm turning 42, next month, and so far, the 40s have been my favorite decade of my life. And I think as you grow, and as you age, if you if you do it well, and you do it with a mindset of learning, you figure things out about yourself, what you like, what you don't like, and what's gonna work for you What's toxic, what's not toxic, you become smarter about just who you surround yourself with, and the food that you eat, and every decision that you make actually kind of compounds that confidence. So what I would say is for anyone who maybe is struggling in the confidence area, it starts with some of those simple things like, what are the foods that you're eating? What are the books that you're reading, who are the people that you're surrounding yourself with it, every little decision that you make in that arena, slowly starts to help you kind of step in that power a little bit more. And interestingly, I always tell people, you want to get more confident? Become a fitness instructor, there is nothing that will really like let you stand taller, speak better in standing in front of a roomful of people staring at you waiting for them, you know, waiting for you to tell them exactly what to do, how to do it, all while to the rhythm.

Will:  

And then to fill the room with with what you're saying, because they're giving nothing at the start until they buy into you, right?

Danielle  

That's right. And so I really actually feel there is something to that, that fitness is kind of one of those things not because of your physical body. But because of the spaces that it puts you in, I would say group fitness has really helped me shape my confidence in a way that allows me to show up more profoundly.

Will:  

Right. And so the other thing, like leading on from that, that I think will be really interesting to a lot of people that are listening to this is that a lot of great fitness instructors have that confidence when it comes to standing up in front of the class, right? Like they've been doing it for years, I've spoken to a lot of people. And now with all the changes that have happened, they're having to switch that into a confidence in a virtual sense, whether it's teaching virtually, or creating their own on demand content, or just stepping more into being a persona that exists on social media or online in a way that they potentially could have coasted on there interpersonal showing up real life confidence before, when you started to build your following and craft who you are going to be online. Did you consciously think about it? Or was there a process you went through to become the confident kind of online person you are now? Or did it come naturally? I'd love to, I'd love to know your approach.

Danielle  

Yeah, no, it's interesting. Social has changed so much over the 10 years that I've been in the fitness industry. And I'm actually and I know, we're gonna get to this, I'm in a space of redefining my relationship with social because of that. What I would say is when I started, the climate of social was much different, certainly wasn't as heavy. It was nowhere near as divisive. Yes, there was negativity, there will always be negativity, there was negativity before the internet, right? Like it just wasn't, you just didn't see it as frequently. So when I started in social, I mean, you weren't posting 20 stories a day showing every moment of every, like, waking breath that you had. So it was very different. But I will say this, I knew from the beginning, I wanted to be me. I know in the beginning, I had no interest in being anyone else. I didn't care, like I showed on my social now and I did then most of the time with no makeup on hair completely a mess, very blatant about the fact to be wearing the same sweatshirt over my four days in a row. Because that's me. And if I have to show up and pretend to be someone else, then why show up at all. It serves me no purpose is it my goal is to get you to fall in love with me. Right? So I say that, if you would fall in love with me on the mic, you would follow me anywhere. Meaning that you know if you took my class, you fell in love with my class, that whatever I posted, you would do right and we all have had those for those of us that have been around when you taught actual classes. We had those people who would follow us from studio to studio to event to event why because they fell in love with you on the mic. But if you weren't being you and you are being this version of yourself that you thought you had to be, they wouldn't have felt that connection. And so that's how I felt about social media. You either love me for me or you hate me for me and trust me when I tell you, I have that, and I have the people who very blatantly dislike and hate me, and that's hard sometimes. But also, there's a saying that says, if I'm going to screw this up, but it's like, try to be for everybody, you're really for nobody or something to that effect. And so I just have known over the years that at the end of the day, I want to be able to rest my head on my pillow at night, knowing that I showed up as me. And if that means I lose followers, that means I lose followers, if it means I don't have as many followers as the person next door. That's okay, too. Because I know that if I show up authentically, as needed every night when I go to bed, I know that I did my job, too. Because why get you to like me if I'm not being me? What purpose does that serve, because eventually, you'll catch on, and then the relationship will be ruined, right? And then all that work will have been for not, so.

Danielle  

And we actually the podcast that just released today. So it'll be a few weeks, it'll be the last couple of weeks podcasts when this one comes out. But it's on kind of finding your strength as an instructor. And one of the things that I talked about with Susan, the guest, is that there's no point in turning up and not being yourself because you just want to enjoy it, right? Like if you're going to do something, and we'll talk about this as well. But I know that you consider your superpower to be consistency. But if you're going to show up consistently, and by doing that you have to you know, be present and engage, then there's no reason to do it in a way that makes you feel bad. And the only way that you can feel good about it is by being yourself, right? Because if you're constantly playing a role, it's extremely tiring.

Danielle  

Right, exactly that.

Will:  

So one of the things that I love about your social media is that you are one of the people who I think is the most blatant about -- if if I'm not for you, I'm not for you. And I'm not going to make myself be for you, which you just said, right? Like you have to define who you are for. And if you don't define who you're for, then you're for no one. Is that, did that come naturally? Or did you build that up? Sort of over the course of a few years? When did you get -- so this is not the confidence to be you. This is more -- when did you get the confidence to be like, you don't like me? Fine. Bye. Because that's a very strong part of your presence that I just love and adore.

Danielle  

You listen, I would be lying to you if I said it's not hard. I would be lying to you if I said that early on, I didn't shed many tears over comments or, and I would be lying. If I said I still don't on occasion, shed a tear. Listen, the internet is a nasty place just as much as it can be beautiful and uplifting. And one of the most probably significant things that we have to keep us connected, it also can be the most damaging, the most hateful, the most hurtful place for no reason. So, you know, I don't know if there was a moment where I said like, I'm not going to give a flip who likes me. What I will say is that I just started to develop thick skin. And it doesn't mean it doesn't permeate. Because it does. But early on, I realized that those messages you may hear all this all the time that hate is never about you. It's always about them. And you know, and some of it truly is ridiculous. You're like, they don't really know you like they're just, you know, keyboard warriors or trolls and, and so I think I just really, you know, what I would say is this, I don't know that if it was a moment in time, I don't know that it was a decision. I think it was just years of personal development, constantly fueling my brain with positive messaging. And in that, knowing that some of those things hate is never about you, it's always about them. And also, why focus on the one negative if you are given 1000 beautiful comments, 1000 people enjoying your messaging, you know that you've impacted them in some kind of way you've made their day better. 1000 people think that you truly are an inspiration to them. And one, one person says something negative, so why give that all the energy? So I just think it was kind of like a gradual transition into, okay, I'm not going to feed into that I'm going to focus on the people that I am positively impacting, rather than the ones that I'm not. And you wanna know, it's funny. You're gonna laugh at this. Sometimes. If I have a moment because we all do where you're just like you're having a moment, I think to myself, do you know how hard it must be to be a Kardashian or to be JLo? Like you think that they don't get right like think about JLo at the Super Bowl this year. Right? And she puts on stunning performance, the closing show of the world. Yeah, and, and then just the hate and the spew and, and I and I think in those moments to myself if JLO can still show up and be JLo, I can show up and be Danielle. That small piece of hate, I'm not gonna let affect me I really think about some of the most well known celebrity people who are having a positive impact on this world. And you think about the level of hate that they must receive, and they still show up. And they impact us positively. And so they can do it, I can do it.

Will:  

I have a really question that I'd love for you to answer on this. And that is, I think, if you're someone who's super famous, then maybe you can just divorce yourself from the conversation, it still would be really hard. Sure. But if you're kind of a level down from that, and you're wanting to grow your presence on the internet, there's like, there's so many resources for how you build your following, right. And all of those resources around building your following are engaging with people that comment on your posts. So I know for some of the people that are listening to this, and they're kind of trying to build their following online, that they can't necessarily ignore the negative comments. So do you have any strategies for if someone says something negative on one of your posts? How do you deal with it? Do you ignore it? Do you engage? What are the...

Danielle  

Block, delete and move on. Listen, here's the deal. I don't and I give it no thought I, I don't care. And I don't care if I misjudged you. But because, listen, I wouldn't let you come to my front door, and spew hate inside my house. Right? Even if you didn't mean it that way, I still would invite you in for dinner. It is your social media and your place of positivity and business. And so I just and you know, some people be like, Oh, well, you know, you should still have banter back and forth with people who disagree. Maybe so. But that, you know, for the most part, my deal is like, if you say something, there's a difference between saying something in disagreement, but said, with respect, that can stay all day. But if you're just nasty and negative, I block, delete, and move on. And I give you no second thought. You want to know something funny. I go through on my social, who is following me on daily. And if I even think for a second, you're a fake account, I block, you may have just opened it. I don't even give you the chance to be there. Because ultimately, too, it's my -- I get to decide who comes into my house. Why should I feel bad even for a second? Like why should I have that conversation? Like well, they were mean to me, they were really rude. But should I block them? Or should I give them another chance to show up and be rude to me? No. And so I also think we give a little bit too much weight to ultimately, social, it's kind of like free space, right? Like it is it is showing up to other people's houses, uninvited very often. And so you get to decide the rules. And I think we just give a little too much weight to well, should I leave them there? Right? Are they positively impacting you? Have they been kind to you? No? Remove them. And hopefully, you know, because chances are, if they just were that quick to show up on your page and be nasty, nothing you say is going to influence them in a way to change that. And so I just my deal is like block, delete, move on life is too short, just spend it wasting my energy worrying about somebody who doesn't like me.

Will:  

I really love that analogy too. And that I think you can kind of what everybody that is building a following, you know, often wants that extra, like who wants that extra person there. But the analogy of you wouldn't let them turn up to your house and be disrespectful. So why do you let them do it on your page, you own, that that's your conversation. You don't have to if someone disagrees respectfully, then it's great to engage, because you don't want to be an echo chamber, but at the same time disrespect? Gone.

Danielle  

Yeah. I mean, I just, I think sometimes we forget, you know, and I'll be honest, I kind of missed social media when it was just, and I'm sure it was, it was still nasty. But I also think over the years, we've all become really entitled in how we use social. And I think when it first started, it was like, oh, okay, cool. Look at these pictures, I'm going to give that a like, and then you set it down and you moved on for the day. But now since the advent of stories, I really feel like we feel entitled to know everything you're doing every moment of the day, and you better update and tell me what's going on. And you better do it quick. And if I if I sent you a comment or a message, you need to tell me what it is right now. Because I some help. I'm like, what, I owe you something I don't. And it's interesting, because it's like here we are giving out free content daily, because we want to affect you in a positive way. So if you're not receiving that messaging in a positive way, if you won't leave on your own, I'll help you get there.

Will:  

I love it. So this brings me to a question that I've been wanting to ask you because as I said, you inspire me in terms of how you treat your social and the relationship you have and love to talk about some of the redefining of the boundaries. But my first thing is that I -- we've talk about this a little bit in messaging before doing this podcast -- so I created Sh1ft a few years ago, but like people who listen to the podcast may or may not know that I've always had like a full time job outside of outside of the fitness things that I've been doing. I've also worked for Les Mills, and Beachbody. And I always felt very confident with those because I believed in the product, pushing them out and promoting them and being and selling them because I really believed in them. The weird thing that I've had, since I've been working full time at Sh1ft and not doing anything else, is that it's a little bit of a personal brand. And that, you know, I created it, there's obviously a team of people that contribute towards it. But there's, I don't know if it's a key cultural thing, but there's a level of anxiety and our lack of confidence that I have pushing shift, because I don't want to be salesy or I sort of I get anxious about putting myself out there so much, which I recognize is weird, because obviously, I created this from scratch. It's my baby when it comes to a product, and I believe in it more than I believed in anything else, yet, I'm more nervous about doing it. And I often worry about kind of the boundary between my public persona and my private persona. People send me messages asking about Sh1ft and I feel that I have to respond to them, because I do care about them. How did you define the boundaries of where your sort of public persona and your accountability to the people that are in your online community begins and the private Danielle sort of ends or the reverse of that I think I got it wrong.

Danielle  

Yeah, I actually think that's another thing I'm redefining. If I could go back and turn back the hands of time, I don't know that I would have been so public about a lot. Like if you take me in my husband's relationship, people watched it from the inception. And so they love our love. But because of that, have felt entitled not the right word. But they have just felt a part of that, which is cool. But also, like, there are times when maybe they feel they're...owed also isn't the right word. But like they feel like they're owed, like, there's some level of like buying of like, give me more info, like what's happening they need to know. And same thing with my kids. If I could go back and turn back the hands of time, I wouldn't have plastered them all over my social as much either. It's a crazy world we live in. Also, it's like, they're, they should get to choose, like how much or how little, they're on social. So what I will say is, is early on, I don't know that I had great boundaries there, right. And I was in that space of feeling compelled to like, Oh, I need to grab this. So let's put this on, or oh, they'll want to know this. Over the years, just like with anything as I grown as as they learn, and become more confident in who I am and who I want to be. What I realized is that I can share with you who I am as a person, you can know who I am this early as a human without you having to know like what I do on a Sunday afternoon. And that doesn't make me less real. It just means that, you know, there should be moments where I'm just enjoying the moment where I found myself with like, on a walk with my husband and seeing the beautiful sunset. And instead of enjoying it thinking I should grab this and share this. And that's when I realized that the problem. So I do think it's hard to know, where does your public persona begin and end and I think you just have to kind of set some bare guidelines for yourself. So I'm kind of working in reverse. I didn't have those set up initially. And I and I'm creating those now. So you know, as you know, I've started something called silent Sundays been the most beautiful thing I have done for my mental health and well being and and that is to not engage in the app at all. I do not open them. I do not look at them until Monday morning. And I just live life and I will tell you what, no, you want to know what's interesting. The first time that I did it -- hard is not the right word. It was -- just you realize how addicted you are right?

Will:  

Right, I realize that quite recently. Yeah,

Danielle  

Yeah, you realize how that in every quiet moment your instinct is to grab the phone and to open it. After that first one -- no, matter of fact, there have been Mondays I have to remind myself, okay, it's time to get back on.

Will:  

Oh, that's fantastic.

Danielle  

Because it's beautiful. You forget what it's like to just eat dinner and go swimming in your pool or to read a book or to just sit in some quiet because you can and and to know that you know if you think about it. Every business has days that they're open.

Will:  

Yes, very good point.

Danielle  

Every fitness program has recovery days, even nutrition programs. Built in treat meals, right? Because they know that you can't just go go, go, go go. And so why have we not applied that to social and so I know that I did not do a great job defining my personal boundaries when I first started, but I can fix that now. So in addition to Silent Sundays, I've also chosen to not put my children on my social, you know, I'm a mom, you don't have to see them to know that they exist. And, you know, and that doesn't mean that if you put your kids on your social that that's a wrong choice, either. But I think we feel pressure to or like you must, and like, No, you don't have to do anything. All you have to do is show up in a way that feels good and authentic to you. Darren's completely gotten off for months, and he says it's the happiest season and he's not sure if we'll be back. And that's okay. You know, so. But if you're building a brand, obviously, you have to be online, I would sit down and really think about it and say, Okay, what are my like, no social zones, right? So maybe for you, it's like, okay, we're never going to, you know, get on social or post about social at the dinner table. Or if we go on vacation, we can only upload five things at the end of the day, like, I think you should come up with rules. And only you can define those rules. But if ultimately you're a fitness brand, you're a fitness brand. And people do want to know you as a human. That's how they'll connect to you. But if you think about it, when you talk group fitness in a class over the mic, you might say, oh, yeah, I gotta go. Gotta go pick up the kids from school. But you didn't go, oh, by the way, the last night for dinner, my husband and I...

Will:  

Right, or record the event as it happened or anything like that. Right?

Danielle  

Yeah. So I think it's also kind of remembering. You're in the business of fitness. And yes, you're more than fitness. And so give them some of those pieces. But it doesn't have to be your entire life.

Danielle  

So what I'm hearing from you, and I'm putting words in your mouth, and feel free to disagree with me is that so for anyone listening to this, who you know, is more or less in the same boat, right, this is for group fitness instructors, they're people who are giving to other people in the community, it might be in person, it might be digitally, they have a community that they serve as their community is interested in them. And that's important, because that's how you build your tribe and continue to like, positively impact more people. But I'm hearing from you that it's something you've done an actual audit of -- is it serving me? Or is it taking away and then set up some specific times and boundaries and rules around, like how you will interact with this technology that we know has the ability to really addict us into be a negative impact on on our lives?

Danielle  

Yeah, another thing that I did was kind of set parameters around...I'm sure you've heard this, but in case someone hasn't, your social media should not be the first and last thing that you look at, when you wake up and you go to bed, right? When you wake up, if that's the first thing you consume, that is not the best way to start your day. So similarly, it shouldn't be the last thing you do before you go to bed. And so I also have like I you know, do not do it typically until I actually got on very quickly to say I was doing this. But other than that I haven't scrolled yet I haven't really interacted because, for me, I don't actually engage on social until I have taken care of me in the morning. And that means that I've had water, I've read and I've done my workout. Once I feel like I am ready, I'm in a good space for me, then I can take on social because let's just say you open social first thing every morning. And we just said social can be heavy. So what if it's a negative comments, the first thing you read that sets the tone for your day? What if something really heavy is the first thing you read that sets your tone for the day. And so I also you know, shut it down. Once I eat dinner. That's it, phones done. And I put it in a in another room. Because also you don't have to be on 24/7. Your goal is to connect with humans in such a way that they will really gravitate towards you. And in turn will want more of your messaging, some of which is movement through fitness. But your goal isn't to get them to become addicted to you. Right and it's not the remember that movie MTV from back in the day. Like it's not that it's not the 24 seven you know will or DML show it is here and you know, you hear people say like, oh, you're only seeing people's highlight reel. I don't know that it's that I think it's just that you're seeing like a constant trailer like it's just like little snapshots of of their day. And that makes you decide like yeah, okay, I like that person. I want to connect with what they provide in this fitness space. You know, you're not promoting coming to live with you. And so they don't need to see, every so often times, they will say, give me a tour of your home. No, you see enough of it through the background of my social...

Will:  

You have my favorite house on all of the internet, by the way.

Danielle  

Thank you. But you know, you don't need to see every intimate corner in detail at home. That's where I live, that's my personal space. That doesn't mean that I don't want to connect with you on a very real level, it just means that you do see some spaces. And already that leaves me feeling very vulnerable. So I'm giving you pieces of me, but not all of me. And I think as fitness instructors as just any personal brand on the internet, we need to be okay with that we're giving pieces of you. But when we give you pieces of us, it's an authentic piece of us, right, it's showing up as us not trying to be your pretend to be somebody else.

Will:  

And I think that it's it's interesting that...So I'm in the same place as us sort of trying to reformulate my relationship with social media. And it's an interesting time to be doing it because that personally, I've moved to a new city, I'm learning the language. But also, it's such a weird time. Because I think that we are at the same time through lockdowns and all these things being closed, we're craving connection. And so I've been inclined to scroll on social media more than I did before, because I miss people, and I missed that social contact. And so I'm kind of searching for it there. But I recognized a few months ago that that the social media side wasn't making me happy that I needed to do it, in person engaging, is something that really makes my heart happy. And social media is something that I enjoy at times, and that I do to promote my business. But I was using it as a bit of a crutch for the lack of social interaction that I was having out in other places. When did you decide on this change, recently? Has it been a kind of during the COVID situation? Or has it been something you've slowly changed, like, when did your decision to realign your relationship with social media happen?

Danielle  

It almost happened right at the top of quarantine. So I have known kind of deep in the back of my head, like, I probably need to like, you know, fix my relationship with it. But didn't actually. I'm a huge fan of chalene Johnson and she was doing this group this like 30 day push group, she has something called push journals that I use. And it's this idea of like, you know, these 90 day goals of like identifying what's the goal that you need, like a micro goal that you need to focus on in that moment? And so you you go through and you answer these questions of, you know, how do you feel on a scale of one to 10 in different areas of your life, like finance and romance and whatever. And we got to the mental health and well being, and that was the one I scored the lowest in. And so when I really unpacked that, I realized that it was social media. And so right about when I'm like working through this group with her and like, what can you do to help, is when quarantine happened. And honestly, I think it couldn't have come at a more perfect time. Because yes, I will say that during lockdown. During quarantine during this unprecedented time, technology provided a beautiful way for humans to stay connected. However, with that being said it also simultaneously addicted people to new levels. And I feel the information that was coming in from all areas was also extremely heavy, divisive, often not true. And, and so it became like this very negative space. And so I feel that we all became more addicted to our phones. So I actually really at the heart of lockdowns where I kind of committed to all of this, this reframing and redefining and I actually think you're going to find more people coming out of this needing that and I don't know if you've watched yet a social dilemma?

Will:  

I watched it last night because I knew that this was a topic that we were going to talk about and I thought I'm gonna watch this and like yeah, I mean, I knew all that stuff before right? Like none of that was new information to me but seeing it compacted into that hour and a half. And also I challenged Max and myself to put down our phones and not check them and like I struggled to not duo screen at some point during it like I just wanted to go is anyone messaged me or? Yeah, like the huge irony of struggling to watch a documentary about the addictiveness of social media during and not and wanting to check my social media journey.

Danielle  

Yeah, you know, and there was a so as I'm like, redefining and I'm like, Okay, I'm going to I kind of called it like intermittent social fasting, right? No differently than I do intermittent social fast, or intermittent fasting today from a food perspective, right? Like they have it like a 16 hour fast and an 8 hour consumption window and I'm like, oh, well, maybe I can model my social somewhat similar to that. So as I started doing that, and even implementing Silent Sunday, one of my daughters was here this summer, and she made a post. And she doesn't post frequently. But she literally said out loud. I hate that it bothers me how few likes or how many likes I get on a post. Yeah, like, what do you mean by that? And a girlfriend, a person posted around the same time and had more likes than her. And she's like, I really hate that. That bothers me and makes me question, did I look pretty enough in this picture, like, and so when when you hear things like that, too, and this is a smart and intelligent young woman, who is struggles with this idea of like, like identifying like, that the power of the light is so strong, not only for us, but for kids and the generation that's growing up. I really realized in that moment to that, like, there is life beyond like, and we have to really like social media. You know, even from watching that. They say they're like, we didn't intend for it to like, yeah, you know, the guy who invented the like button, he was like,

Will:  

I know he said he's bringing joy to the world. It broke my heart.

Danielle  

Yeah, he was like, I didn't intend for it to cause depression, suicide, like self confidence issues. But this is where we're at. And I think it's just it's kind of like, you can almost relate it to like the food industry, right? There was a time when like, everybody, no one really thought about GMOs or whatever, and monsanto and all these different things. And then slowly over time, right, like, people started to basically like take back their food and really like advocate for, you know, non GMO and organic and healthy and pesticide free and responsibly raised a kind of thing. That's where we're at with social, I think we're in a space of, we need it. It has beautiful power. But also with that beautiful power comes in negativity. And I think we need to take it back. And so if you are a fitness instructor, I think right now what happened was you felt called to be online more than ever. Yeah. And I actually think that I think a lot of fitness instructors harm to the fitness industry long term at the top of quarantine

Danielle  

Yeah, by just giving away everything. Yeah, I hate that's not something that I've actually discussed on this show. But I completely agree with you in that, like, I understand why people did it, they wanted to get their brand out there, they wanted to keep connected with the people coming to their classes, they wanted to make sure they were servicing everyone. But like all of that stuff for free. Like people don't value what they can get for free, right. And I think that like, I know that a lot of the boutiques that I've worked with when I was at classpass. And now having to reframe that conversation, because they gave away so much for free and that's just not sustainable. Just like I guess that's not sustainable to give away so much of your own self all of the time. You can't drink from empty cup. Is that the right thing? Yeah, I mangle those things as well. But you know where I'm going?

Danielle  

Yeah, so I just think, you know, we're, I came to a space at the top of quarantine, you know, that this is the world we live in. And this is probably the world we live in for a while. Yeah. And this could be a time where I become even more addicted. And it would be even harder to pull back after. So instead, I'm going to do what's hard. And I'm going to pull back now. And I think it has been the best for me emotionally, mentally. I also think, too. When I come back online on Monday, I'm excited to engage with people, right? I have a newfound energy, like I'm ready, instead of feeling like, Oh, I have to get on or, you know, even now I'm kind of dabbling a little bit in in virtual fitness. And because I didn't do it, like because I felt I had to right from the start, I'm choosing to, now I'm excited. Even if there's not that many people, it's like, oh, this is fun, like, because I chose to be in that space. So I also think it's important for us to remember, as it comes to social context, just because somebody else is doing it doesn't mean you have to and i think i think that urge is very real. Oh my gosh, everybody's you know, getting their free classes. I'm going to miss the boat. If I don't jump on and put up all my content on HGTV right now. And so you feel like this, this overwhelming sense of like, Oh my gosh, am I doing something wrong if I don't do what everyone else is doing? But it's okay. You know, you can show up in the in the space and in the time where it makes sense for you.

Will:  

And so, you're you have started teaching virtual? Have you redone the gym, like I know that you are doing some renovations. Is it, like what am I seeing?

Yeah, this is our wall in there inside of our, inside of our gym room. Um, yeah, I've just started dabbling. You know, I don't know where I want to go with online fitness, as I know that, you know, I'm dabbling with virtual right now, just because I wanted to make sure I didn't lose that ability to cue and talk and speak and move, you know, without being like, um, and also, you know, dabbling with, like, you know, what does that look like? Do I plan on teaching every day, you know, 30 minutes to an hour a day, like with full packed virtual schedule? Probably not. Um, you know, what, I love to have my own program, maybe, but is that hard trying to figure out how to do that in the context of like, the other space and industry I'm in, kind of, you know, so I don't, I don't really know, I just know that I want it to be -- I do feel that teaching, cueing. All of that is a skill, but it's a skill that has to constantly be practiced. And if you get out of practice too long, just like with anything, it takes a minute to get that endurance back. And so for me, it was it's more of just a space of like, making sure I'm not letting my skills, kind of,

Danielle  

yeah, staying sharp. Right.

Danielle  

Yeah, yeah.

Danielle  

And what's your experience been of it? So we'll link to your virtual studio so that anyone that wants to take a class with Danielle can take it when the next one is, not necessarily everyday. But um, how have you been finding it? Because I know that it's, it's not easy, right? And I think you talked about at the top of the show, like, it's, it's not the same as being in person, what's your experience? Feel free to be completely honest, by the way, like, I'm yeah, I am pushing people into virtual and saying you must do it. But that's because I care about people continuing their careers. It doesn't mean I don't think it's not different...

No, for sure. And listen, I do think that the fitness industry is forever changed. I do. I don't know how, like how or when it will come back. So I do think virtual is important. And I have what took me so long to be fair, is I didn't want to do it over zoom. And I didn't want to do it over Facebook or IGTV. I was like, Okay, if I don't do any of those, like I wasn't interested in like coming up with my own. So I found this company. It's newer. It's called Moxie.

Will:  

Oh, they're based out of Germany, are they not?

Danielle  

Oh, I don't know, maybe. But basically, what they did was they took it almost like zoom, except every person that gets on it doesn't degrade the video quality. Right. And and

Will:  

There's no delay, because that's the big problem with zoom. Right, is that it's almost impossible to not have that fractional delay between the video and the audio.

Danielle  

Yeah, so what I what I like about it is there's like a warmup room. So if I have a class, we can get on and chat a little bit beforehand. So there's that interpersonal connection. Yeah. And then you do class, they partnered with feed FM. So if you want to use you don't have to, but if you want to use feed FM, then it just plays into your audio and their audio, also no delay or sound degradation.

Will:  

Are you doing music based classes or no?

Danielle  

Yeah, music as motivation. Because if you do like to teach the music, you'd want your own mixer and like to pull in. And and then at the end, you know, there's like a cool down room thing and you can kind of chat and then of course they do, you know, you can put up your schedule. Obviously, they take a little percentage. But the other piece that I like about it is I'm also in the mindset of I teach fitness, because I love it. It's not my main stream of income. So I want the least path to resistance. Well, I understand for some people who fitness is their main stream of income, they can't afford to take away those little percentages for for convenience, but for me, the convenience is important to just be able to like turn on and go. I also like that people pay for me not for the entire platform, meaning if you like me, you subscribe to me, you don't subscribe to everyone on the platform.

Will:  

Right? So it's not an aggregator. It's just you they come on and they use this. So we'll we'll put a link to this in the show notes. Because I think that all of these resources, like all the different strategies, people are using a super interesting and worth looking at.

Danielle  

So and i they're also new, and like their CEO, like any issue I've had fixes it immediately, like, they're really receptive to change. So in that way, it's been good I'm in. I like that the video quality is clear. I like that I can see people, you know, but yeah, it's different, right? Like, in order for me to come check your form, I've got to stop moving. And I've really got to come into the right and if I, if I don't ever say your name or check your form, then I may as well do on-demand and that's how my mind works, right? Like if I'm not actually interacting with you in the moment and be like, oh, well, you know, you look amazing. Your forum is great. I'm proud of you keep going. If I'm not saying that if I'm just staying back and moving the whole time. Then why am I not just putting out on-demand content, right? Which you could do? Right? So I think too, you have to decide is that as an instructor, what do you want? Is it that you want to just put out content that your people can connect with? Or are you wanting that like, in the moment connectivity? And if you want that in the moment connectivity, you know, it's a challenge. It's different. But I, because if you are like, so for example, like with PiYo, I imagine it'd be very hard for Michelle to stop flowing, moving. I know, like, when I teach yoga I've been teaching opens on Saturday. I know that for the most part, if I stop flowing and moving, they stop. So I don't really get that personal on teaching. Like HIIT, I can stop and move and get in the camera. Yeah...

Will:  

Right. You can be like, right, you run on the spot, and I'm gonna come up.

Danielle  

But also, people don't adjust their camera angles each time. Yeah. Okay, I can see you when you're standing. But if we go to the floor, I don't see you.

Will:  

We did a shift release that was all standing up. Because we had instructors that were like, I just want one class where I can just be interacting with him the entire time.

Danielle  

Yeah, so it's just, you know, it's, it's, I wouldn't say that I love it. And I won't say that. I don't love it. I'm just, I'm in a space right now. Like, I don't know, we've got to explore, right? Like, this is the world we live in chances. And in my personal opinion, this is just my personal opinion. This is not research factor. My personal opinion, big box gyms don't come back anytime soon, if ever, right. And in my work, they,

Will:  

they they're gonna come back in a different cut-down low timetable way, and many of them are at risk of not opening again, I think that we can just like I think that New York Sports Club, the news dropped today, they're in administration as well, you know, obviously, gold got sold and then 24 Hour like, it's it is tough times. Right? It's very tough times.

Danielle  

Yeah. So I think, you know, like, for me, I used to always love teaching at a big box gym, it was easy. Like,

Will:  

I love turning up and then get past there. Like, I didn't have to do any of the marketing. I was a good instructor. And I could just, you know, teach my class and leave. I really like that.

Danielle  

Yeah. And I so I don't know that that that's happening anytime soon. I think boutique, very boutique studios will survive, yoga studios that, you know, like, small, intimate, I think those will survive. But even still on that, like, there's only they'll have what a handful of instructors per boutique. So I just think, right now, there's so much unknown, there's so much like, just kind of up in the air that as a fitness instructor, you kind of have no choice but to explore. Yeah, like, which platform makes the most sense for you? What do you like? What do you not like? Is it teaching virtual live in real time that really like feeds your soul? Or is it creating on demand content? And then just having a forum or a group to connect with your people? You know, what does that look like for you? I think we all just have to explore and test with it. Because let's also be honest, fitness is incredible. We all got into it, though, because we love it. And so if it it's not like because it well, it can be a lucrative source of income.

Will:  

Oh, I think we can we can be honest about that. And just be like, you know, like, instructors put in a hell of a lot more than they get back monetarily. Like maybe they get more community and happiness. But it no one becomes a fitness instructor because it's a high paying job.

Danielle  

If it's not bringing you joy, then why would you do it? So that's the other piece like, you know, it's kind of like, there have been moments where I knew in my career, like I was teaching too many classes, or like that gym format didn't serve me because you started to lose joy, you started to dread going to that class, or prepping for that class or heading to that gym. And so I think you've got to just be cognizant right now to like, if showing up live to two people, and you can't really see them and like, it just feels clunky. And that doesn't bring you joy, then you need to explore different options for for doing that. And so right now, I'm just like, I'm going to joy exploration and like, what is going to give me the most joy?

Will:  

Yeah. And the funny that you mentioned this, because I think the one thing that speaking with you know hundreds of instructors about their experiences is that whether they're doing a live stream or on demand, the most important thing and instructors are doing right now is actually just providing the community. It's the Facebook group that they have or the interaction that they have in the community space where they talk before and after. That's really the thing that people are craving. And I think this is the one thing that instructors can bring their authenticity to because the reality is that as you pointed out, so much free stuff went out there, there's so much opportunity to like if you want to train, you can find free content, that it's fantastic and it'll do it. But that that's just all it is. Whereas if you're an instructor, then your real ability to connect with people and build a community is by doing the stuff around the outsides. 

Danielle  

For sure, totally agree with that.

Will:  

So that I think is a great place for us to finish up. But before we do, I just wanted to ask, I know that you are a voracious reader of content, whether it be self improvement or learning, I always see these things. Are there any recommendations you have for anyone to any content, be it any type of content, so it could be book, could be website, it could be a course, that you've done recently that you think would be a really great thing for our listeners to explore.

Danielle  

You know, I'm currently reading, which is why it's so top of mind this book, Limitless by Jim Kwik. And Jim Kwick is kind of known in this space for being like, helping you learn knowing how to learn and how to be just that to be limitless. He works with a lot of the world's top actors and celebrities to help them memorize their scripts. And I will say that about halfway through with it, and the content is just so good, because we all need that right now, we all need to let go of any limiting belief that we have, right? Maybe you have a limiting belief as it relates to how to show up online or that you can't still, you know, your fitness career won't continue because, you know, whatever. So a lot about unpacking limiting beliefs a lot about, you know, just, you know, how to learn how to move forward. So that has been really great. And I'm also just a huge Chalene fan, especially for anyone who is in the space of like creating their own business, if you're not like also listening to her podcast, or kind of following her, you know, tips for social media and building your brand. I think, you know, she's just such a done such a great job with that. And here's the other thing I'll say about learning. I also think learning is personal, meaning I could recommend a book to you or a podcast, and it won't serve you. And I'll give you a good example of that. Like, I'm not a huge Rachel Hollis fan, right? But every girl under the sun thinks she's the best thing since sliced bread, which is amazing. I'm so happy that people are able to connect with her and her message. For me. I'm more of like a Jocko Willink kind of girl, right? Like I love like that idea of Extreme Ownership. So I also think was as it comes to learning, whether it's podcasts or books, be okay with starting a podcast and turning it off, or reading a book and going, nope, not for me. And then that really is going to like feel good and make the most sense for you kind of in the in the space that you're in, like, what need most right now? Do you need help with social media? Do you need help with confidence? Do you need help with building a website? Like, what is it that you currently need the most and then just kind of do a little digging on your own of like, well, what might be the thing that will help you get there, because I could recommend all the books in the world to you. And not any of them might be what you need to hear in that moment in time, because personal development is just that -- personal.

Will:  

So I think that's a fantastic place to finish. Because that brings us full circle, as when you were saying that, I realized that I'm not interviewing on you on a podcast that I started. The reason I got into podcast was actually because when one of your social posts like years and years ago, when we first met, you made the point that you'd stopped listening to music when you were doing a certain thing because you were using that space for podcasts. And I was like, that's a really good idea. I'm going to do that too. And since then, I've got fully into podcasts. And I use it for my learning. And now I'm interviewing you. So well, thank you for all of the great advice that you've given everyone that's listening and the great advice that I've sort of stolen from you over the years. And I look forward to having another conversation again about all the other stuff that we could have talked about today and didn't get to. So thank you very much, Danielle.

Danielle  

Thank you. Thanks for having me. And I love what you're doing. The group fitness world is better because you're in it. So thanks for that. 

Will:  

Cheers.

Will:  

So that was my chat with Danielle. It can be tough putting yourself out there for judgment, whether it's at the front of a studio, teaching a virtual class or promoting what you love online. And that's why I was excited to chat to Danielle as she's someone whose confidence and realness inspires me. I love the advice she gave and I hope that you also manage to take away some great strategies for approaching the way that you approach social media. I really admire the confident way Danielle shows up as herself each and every time I see her online. And I have to admit that it's slightly comforting to know that she also has her moments where it doesn't come so easy. Danielle has taken the time to properly reflect on how she uses social media and has solid Sundays are a fantastic strategy for redefining the boundaries of when and how you consume social media. I encourage you to give this a try. And also take a moment to really reflect on your relationship with your mobile. 

Will:  

Next episode, I have the joy of chatting with Sasha Cohen, public speaker thinker of interesting things and giver of wisdom. If you have not had the pleasure of meeting Sasha, I really recommend that you tune in as additional lockdowns loom and it starts to dawn on us that things aren't going back to normal. Sasha is going to break down the strategy for dealing with uncertainty and the five ways you can take care of your well being. Catch you then. Thank you for listening. If you're enjoying the show, don't forget to subscribe for all the latest episodes wherever you get your podcasts. And while you're there, please drop us a review. You can also get in touch with me at will@sh1ftfitness.com. I'm Will Brereton and you've been listening to Group Fitness Real Talk.