Will:  

You are now teaching to sort of, you know, upwards of 40 people live and 40 people live stream at the same time. When COVID happened, you'd never gone live. Right? I think that's really a really important thing for instructors to hear. It's that, like, I know that it might seem hard, but you really like if you have a little bit of faith in yourself a bit of confidence, or willing to screw it up a little bit at first. 

Will:  

Hey, I'm Will Brereton, founder of Sh1ft Fitness and this is Group Fitness Real Talk, a show about how to survive and even thrive as an instructor in 2020 and beyond. Today in Group Fitness Real Talk, I want to focus on transitioning to virtual. Group fitness instructors all around the world have been put in a very difficult position in 2020. We've all either been forced to shut up shop indefinitely or move to teaching virtually, and it's been tough. Everyone has had a different reaction to it. The vast majority of instructors at the beginning of 2020 had never considered virtual, and were forced into a situation that was uncomfortable and way outside the comfort zone that they've been sitting in. I've taught in front of a camera for 20 years, but even when I started teaching live streaming classes, it was nerve racking because I was adding a whole new element of complication with the tech and wiring if the Wi Fi was working and making sure that people could hear me it wasn't easy. 

Will:  

So today, I'm interviewing two instructors and friends, Jen and AJ. Now I met both of these awesome woman through my group fitness companies shift. They both signed up to be instructors in 2019. Jen and AJ both jumped into teaching virtually after COVID hit and they've each had very different teaching backgrounds and strategies for taking on virtual completely different different approaches, but both are absolutely killing it. Now I can't wait for you to hear Jen and AJ stories. This episode is full of inspiration and guidance to help you succeed in the virtual group fitness world. But what I really love most about this episode personally, is that while it started as a way to share to virtual success stories, what actually shone through is crucially important it is to support MB a cheerleader for your fellow instructors. Now more than ever. So we've created a great downloadable guide for this episode, which gives you the top tips that Jen and AJ share in the episode, as well as some further detail on their virtual setup and equipment recommendations. So you can check out the link in the show notes for your copy. Right -- now on to the interview. Jen and AJ, welcome to the show. How are you today?

Jen  

Good. How are you? 

AJ  

Awesome, awesome. How are you guys? 

Will:  

I am very good. Thank you. So I'm recording this in Paris. Jen. Where are you?

Jen  

New York

Will:  

and AJ? 

AJ  

I am in one of the Washington, DC suburb areas. So I'm in Northern Virginia. I'm in Aldi, Virginia

Will:  

and what is the temperature there?

AJ  

250.

Will:  

Feels like 400

AJ  

Yeah, exactly. So it's probably, it's probably in the 90s. Okay, yeah, we've had really bad thunderstorms here all week. Jen are you guys getting those thunderstorms? Your way. So like at three o'clock in the morning.

Jen  

I got them in the middle of my class --

Will:  

Oh, that's right. We're gonna get to that actually, I'm gonna pull you back because we're gonna come back to that outdoor class you're doing. So, what I want to jump in straight away is I want you guys to tell me a little bit about what your teaching life was like right before the world went crazy. So Jen, let's start with you. You just want to tell me where you were teaching and what you were teaching before COVID.

Jen  

So I was teaching at a local gym. There's two locations and I was teaching 14 classes a week. Insanity, P90X, Sh1ft, L1ft and a lot of Spin. So the first thing that automatically went was spin.

Will:  

 Yeah.

Jen  

There was like no, no remote for that.

Will:  

And AJ, tell me about your teaching. Where were you teaching and what were you teaching?

AJ  

So I was teaching. I have a corporate customer that I would teach on Monday. So they are located in Northern Virginia. So it's a whole cyber security group that we provide a class for. So we teach the Sh1ft and L1ft classes there and then I have a boot camp in our neighborhood. So Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays, teaching the same thing Jen teaches, P90X, insanity, turbo kick, quarter fours, PiYo, anything Beachbody live related. Those. Yeah, all the things. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Will:  

Cool. So Jen you were teaching in a in a club and AJ, you were teaching in a company or a corporate

AJ  

Yeah, two places, a corporate location and then a local community clubhouse or out on their tennis courts or out in their parking lot. So local community center and then a corporate office 

Will:  

and were they your classes or were day the classes of the community center?

AJ  

They were mind. Yeah, so I live in the community. So like I've been teaching before I started doing the live group format. I was teaching some home fitness programs not really teasing them, but sharing them. One night a week it was free and open to the community. And it grew from there. And then when I became a certified instructor to teach live formats, we just converted things over to a boot camp style format and started teaching the things that they were doing at home teaching them live and it just kind of grew from there.

Will:  

Perfect. And I love that because we've kind of got the whole spectrum which is teaching in a gym for a gym that runs on timetable, and then we've also got teaching for yourself and then also teaching for like a corporate or company, which is kind of another, another thing. So, when COVID happened and around the world, everything started to lock down. I would really like to understand sort of your first reaction and the actions that you took off of that. So, Jen, let's start with you. You were teaching for a gym when everything started shutting down, what happened and how did you react?

Jen  

I'm gonna get emotional. I was, I was devastated, honestly, because I have a big group, but it's a tight group and it's, it's a family and, um, you know, it was kind of like in waves where, you know, it was like we heard gyms were gonna close but we weren't sure. And the moment that it was announced that they were going to close, like, my phone blew up, like, what are we gonna do and you know, and I I had a really rough couple of weeks to be honest with you. 

Will:  

I think that a lot of a lot of instructors can relate to that, right?

Jen  

Yeah, it was really emotionally tough on me. So as soon as it happened, like, I took like a week to kind of regroup. And then I just went for virtual. And I had no idea what I was doing.

Will:  

And so, did your did your gym like help you with going virtual? Or were you kind of let your own devices in your head? Okay, great. Perfect. 

Jen  

So initially, we were doing zoom, and we were like, allowed access into the club, but then that all stopped. Right. And so we were allowed access to the zoom and it was kind of like organized through the gym, but then that kind of fell pretty quickly. So I kind of...

Will:  

and is that when you... because I know that you started on zoom and you transitioned on to Facebook. Was that around that time that you did the transition to teaching through Facebook? 

Jen  

Yeah. Yeah, I only did Zoom for like two weeks...hated it.

Will:  

That's interesting because like I personally I love zoom, which is why I really wanted to talk to you today because you are smashing it on the Facebook side. And so I think it's really good to get kind of well rounded, a well rounded repertoire of different types of digital teaching. So we're gonna come back a little bit your classes and kind of how you got kicked off. But AJ, why don't you tell me about kind of what your reaction was when things started shutting down? How did you first react to the news?

AJ  

Well, I had tried out virtual last year just just to try it out when the the group fitness formats that I was teaching allowed us to go virtual. So let me try it because I had a couple of people who also live in the DC area, but they lived too far to come to my classes. So I said let me just try this virtual thing and see how this works. So we did it for about a month and there were a lot of kinks and a lot of things that we had to work out. I didn't know what I was doing. I was new to Zoom. So I was like, let's try this. I had no idea how to work with technology. So we tried it out. We did a lot of, we captured a lot of lessons learned, for lack of a better term, right? Okay, this isn't work, if people can't hear me, there's a lot of delay. Is there anything we can do to fix this? Or does this platform not work? Yeah, yeah. And then we found out there were some things to fix it, we just need to understand the products and fix those things. So I didn't have quite the same reaction as Jennifer because the corporate customer that I'm working with, I also work with them on the corporate side of the house, right. So we do a lot of cybersecurity stuff for them.

Will:  

So you're a cybersecurity consultant as well.

AJ  

Yeah. I'm an IT consultant and part of what I do is cybersecurity, as well. So we're working for a large cybersecurity organization by day and then by night we changed the cape, right? And so they went virtual. And they were using zoom and so and they had communicated out to the whole organization about the fitness classes and so we just flipped everything to zoom, so that wasn't that wasn't hard at all for them because the whole infrastructure went to Zoom.

Will:  

Yeah, and I think that all  companies are used to doing video conferencing if they have offices and people internationally so I did find that everyone that was utilizing Zoom for work was totally on board with doing a Zoom right away. The barrier to entry was much much lower.

AJ  

Right. And so then the only thing was a lot of those people were face to face people right? So they're like, yeah, we have to go to work on Zoom. But how's this fitness thing going to work so we did it, they loved it, it's still it's still flourishing and more people are coming so that's going good. Then with the boot camp, some of my boot campers had done some of my virtual classes last year plus when I would travel for the for the day activities, you know, login and just teach our boot camp, you know, through zoom, but it was glitchy. You know, we had to work that stuff out. So now we've got it down pat, you know, I've got my home gym set up, I've got my ring light, like I have now. Yeah, we've got the lamp, the HD cameras, we've got all of the, you know, the boom systems, you know, got a speaker system, I've got the headset, all the things to make it a good experience so that it's not glitchy.

Will:  

So when you did this last year, early last year, sort of. So you didn't continue with it. But you started back up again and COVID happened? What was the reason for not continuing with it at the time?

AJ  

You know, I was thinking about that. I don't think there was any reason because it was of the technology or because it was virtual. I think we did it for a month and then everybody got busy, right? I got busy and the people who were coming got busy. And I said and I kept saying oh we'll start it up again next month. We'll start it up again next month and they were like, I can't come and blah, blah. I was like, okay, we're not started up again, we're just gonna do the live classes. So when when I had to actually switch to it and make it make it a real experience, right, not something that I just threw together. What I did was, my husband and I and a couple of other friends who were really techno savvy and know how to do things virtually, we did some beta testing. So what we did, we wrote out a list of all the problems that we had, and we tackled them, right. 

Will:  

You do sound like an IT consultant.

AJ  

So so my husband logged in from his iPhone. I logged in from my droid, we logged in from my droid tablet, we logged in from the laptop, we broadcasted on the TV, we tested every platform we could think of, we went to different rooms in the house, we will lose connection. And so by the time that people came, I was you know, when they were having problems because a lot of these people that don't use technology like this, right? So I said if you're on your phone, you'll only be able to see me unless you swipe left, if you're on the iPhone you have to connect to zoom and the volume this way, if you're on your laptop, you can cast your Chromecast to your TV or you can hard plug into -- So that kind of helps smooth out the transition so people didn't get frustrated with this whole movin virtual because I've got some people who are just rider die diehard. I'm not doing virtual, I don't like working from home, I don't like working out from home and was like I don't know how to hook up the technology and I was like -- we got you, we can be your tech support and your fitness support all in one meeting. So you know if you know anybody who's having problems with this stuff, you can you know, do a lot of beta testing upfront to make sure you feel comfortable going forward with it because it's a it's a great platform. I love it. I love it.

Will:  

So we'll come back to Zoom in a second because I want to hear about Barbara, my favorite....but Jen, coming back to you. So you started on zoom, and you quickly moved to Facebook. And now you have created such a following. And so tell me what was, how did you find Facebook when you first moved on to their platform, and for those people listening, we'll put links to both Jen and AJ's social media in the show notes because I think it would be really useful. They post a lot of content about their classes, and you can kind of see how they're delivering because there's two very different delivery styles, both of which are really successful for who they're delivering to. But Jen, you're delivering on Facebook. Tell me about your class numbers. So I know that you kind of had say 30 to 40 people in person and then you were up around 100 person mark, not long after you got into Facebook. How did you do that? Like for the people listening, how did you manage to scale your classes, so big, so far, so strong?

Jen  

I mean, I do have a big following and everyone kind of, you know, stuck with it and having the class size of 30-40 people, that's all the class can hold, right? So there were days where I was teaching three classes in a row to accommodate 30 people each time, so now we have a platform where everyone's together. So what happened when this all started, it was like, boom 100 people. And as the months went on, it started to go like 60-80. And I was kind of hovering at that point. I just recently took myself off of public and started charging. And I was just telling AJ before you're on, like, there's 100 people solid that signed on. And what I've noticed now is that because I'm leaving my workouts up, that now the workouts like each timeframe has like 40 to 50 because now people can go back.

Will:  

Right, so this is a really good point. So you'll deliver your workouts live and then they exist in your Facebook group for your members to watch at a later time if they need to. Right so you've you've effectively free People out from having to do it like at that time, although a lot of people still are but people are watching those replays.

Jen  

Yeah, I think even I don't know what it's like for me personally, like the experience is so much different doing it when it is live, even though it's the same workout because we're talking about things that are like happening like that second, and there are like a handful people, it'll go back for, you know, scheduling reasons. So it's working out so only been two weeks, but so far, so good.

Will:  

Very nice. And you and I would also like to talk to you about hybrid classes because you have started teaching outdoors again and there's an awesome video on your social media of that -- who is who is your cameraman?

Jen  

My husband.

Will:  

Your husband, okay. So there's some great video of you teaching sort of to 30 or 40 people in a parking lot. And then you've got, I think, an additional sort of 30 or 40 people on the livestream. Is that right? 

Jen  

Yep. 

Will:  

And so and so the rules where you are -- tell me about them. You're allowed to have people in outdoor space or and your limited inside?

Jen  

Yeah, we outside it's 50 people is the large group gathering for social distance. Yeah. And what happened was the first two classes we did were free. So there was boom and in an hour 50 people and we just recently started charging and it was like 35. And I was like, come on people. Like it's time...

Will:  

Those are pretty solid numbers. I tell you, even pre-COVID those are some strong class numbers.

AJ  

Yes.

Jen  

So, uh, yeah, so the gym offered the parking lot. So we just started doing that. And it was weird because they didn't want to also offer streaming because they thought it would take the audience away from the outdoors. They're like, Oh, if you stream and go outdoors, you're gonna lose the outdoor numbers. And I was like, oh no, you don't know me.

Will:  

Is this because they didn't they didn't have faith that you'd be able to manage the in-person plus virtual experience?

Jen  

Yeah, yeah. So the first time we did it, I think AJ was actually on it was on a Sunday. And there was 47 people in the parking lot. And there were 36 online and I, the manager was there. And I was like, Oh, yeah, we got 36 online.

Will:  

And, like, it looks great. How do you find teaching that hybrid experience? Like tell me how do you set it up? What do you do in order to be able to manage both people in person and down the line? And I guess for people listening, that's one of the useful distinctions between Facebook and Zoom because obviously zoom is far more two way and AJ, we're going to talk a little bit about that two way communication. But on Facebook, it's a bit more of a delivering kind of video on demand style. So how do you how do you find it is teaching to a live audience, a live class and then also people through the technology using which is tell me about that.

Jen  

Well, first for me, I'm used to teaching like through a mirror. So now I have to face people and that is like a total like learning curve for, like the right and the left and all that stuff. I had to practice a little bit on that, but it's just fun if I have my computer next to me and I, you know, kind of engage with the audience that's live and then I go to my phone or my computer and I'm like, hey, yeah, you know, it's kind of like going back and forth. 

Will:  

And I've seen a couple of different setups from you. I've seen one we've got the phone on a tripod, sort of in the middle of the second row, and then I've also seen it where you've got your computer off to the side.

Will:  

Okay, so what about this? What did I say?

Jen  

Well, what you saw was some of my husband's camera equipment.

Will:  

Okay.

Jen  

Yeah. And he like sets up like all...he has like a GoPro and a 360 camera, we got a drone.

AJ  

Yeah, that drone footage is awesome. I was about to message you and say, girl, where can I find that drone. I want it.

Will:  

Okay, so you're, you're, you're teaching to your laptop, which is just off to the side of where you're delivering the class. 

Jen  

Yeah. 

Will:  

Okay, cool. And you don't find and you like, did it take a little bit of time to kind of adjust to that or did it come quite naturally after live streaming?

Jen  

It wasn't natural to me, like and I think with the live streaming, it was like I had to, like get over that I wasn't going to be in a group fitness room for a while and just kind of go for it and embrace it. And once I like, let go of my anxiety, like, you know, you've seen me go live. I'm like ahhhh, I got my water...

AJ  

And you kill it every time, every time. I'm always I'm always on her, I think I'm on all your classes, probably laying down though.

Will:  

And so just to clarify this is you are now teaching to sort of, you know, upwards of 40 people live and 40 people live stream at the same time when COVID happened, you'd never gone live before. 

Jen  

No.

Will:  

Right. I think that's really a really important thing for instructors to hear. It's that, like, I know that it might seem hard, but you really like if you have a little bit of faith in yourself a bit of confidence, are willing to, you know, screw it up a little bit at first. 

Jen  

Yeah.

Will:  

So AJ, you're teaching zoom. And the reason I know this is because I follow you on social media and I see the clips that you post and I hear you encouraging the people in your class. So tell me a bit about zoom, and how you've used that to kind of create a connection with the people that come to your classes.

AJ  

So basically I'm just, I'm just doing what I do in person through the computer, right? I'm computer savvy, I do computers for a living. So computers are not roadblocks in my mind. Right? They are, you know, we get a lot of people even from the work side that say, well, how do I do this and blah, blah, blah, and I miss being able to walk over to the watercooler and do this. I said, You know what, you've got a chat box. Anytime you want to walk over to the to my desk and talk to me just pick up the chat box and do it. So it's the same thing with the fitness classes from my perspective. My style of teaching is centered around group fitness meets personal training. So I'm not I'm not just on the stage working out right. I'm actually looking at people, looking at form, looking at technique, making corrections you know, helping people out to make sure they stay safe. Because we all are doing this high intensity interval training and it's you know, it can be dangerous. So, now that they are out, they think, they thought they were out of my view.

Will:  

But they were wrong.

AJ  

They thought, okay, she can see as well, she's not really paying attention. I literally get up in the camera like this. What are you doing? I'm like, no, no, no, put the weight in your heels. And after class or like, you are really watching us. Of course, I'm watching you. I'm not just up here. It's still me. I'm just on the computer, you know. And so I think that's created, it's allowed us to maintain that community feel, you know, it's allowed people who weren't into technology or have never worked out. I'll say it that way. I've never worked out before using a virtual platform. It's, it's allowed to them to feel like oh, this is still kind of real. We're just inside of a box kind of thing. And I and I love it. I like that. The reason I like zoom is because there is a two way communication and I try and see the people, right. So like, even today, I chose to use a different camera today so that I could look in your face. I have an HD camera, but it sits up and if I put it up that I have to look up and I can't see. Right, so I like to connect, right? So it's all it's all the fun. It's the fun factor. You know, I'm like, I see you that squat is not low enough.

Will:  

So what equipment are you using to make sure that you can connect? So for those of those people that are doing livestream zooms. What's your basic setup, you don't go into too much detail but kind of like what do you have your laptop? Do you have a screen? Do you have a webcam? Tell us about that.

AJ  

Yeah, so I have my laptop I connected to a large screen television in my in my gym,

Will:  

Right, so you can see the people in bigger resolution.

AJ  

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So and I've got a webcam, just a webcam -- High Definition webcam. I've got lighting, so I've got a ring light, I've got another light, I've got a speaker that ion speaker that you can get at Walmart, you know for $79 and then I've got a headset. So same setup that I had in person minus, I didn't have the laptop and the ring light but I had you know same equipment so I just set it up at home.

Will:  

Yeah and do you use music with your classes? 

AJ  

I do.

Will:  

And how do you find the music works through Zoom?

AJ  

It works well it works well. You have to have a good I think you have to have a good quality sound speaker if you want it to boom because I want I want the holy, I try to create the experience right? Yeah, I don't want my music playing softly in the background you know and of course it is it is based on the receivers speakers and their technology right but at least coming from my in like my basement is shaking. We've got that boom system going, you know cuz that gets me going and that allows me to connect with the people like I want to, and they love it. I mean, we laugh we cut the fool. It's it's, it's just like in person except we're not a person and you know, so people are getting an experience. It may be, it's almost like going to the 3D show at themovie theater, right? Yes, I'm all up in the camera and they're all up in the camera and everybody's animated. That's a lot of sweat.

Will:  

And you have, I know that you have some older people that come to your livestream classes. So tell me tell me about that. Were they people that came to your bootcamps before or are they new people that have come in?

AJ  

These are new people. 

Will:  

Wow, so they're brand new people.

AJ  

Yeah, these are all brand new people. So Barbara...

Will:  

Yeah, I know Barbara.

AJ  

So Barbara, Barbara works on the technology side of the house. And, um, Barbara does jazzercise, right. 70 plus years old, and so she heard us talking at work one day, you know about some of this. She knew I was a fitness instructor and I said, you know, I'm teaching this awesome low impact. And she's just like I'm not getting ready to do all the foolish stuff. Well, we're still, we're still gonna do some HIIT training, but it's low impact so easy on the joints easy, you know, I can teach it and help you, you know, modify and do all the things that you need to do to come on in and join us because she enjoys hanging out with us just from a social and work perspective. So come on into this world. So you know, so she was able to come in and do the Sh1ft low impact and she loves it but she doesn't stay impact, low impact. 

Will:  

Right, she gets excited and then she's jumpin...

AJ  

So she's one person that is in her 70s and then we had a big...here's, here's what's awesome with this virtual thing, right? So I've got everybody connected in their house, but in different states, right and in different countries because I have family in Jamaica but here's something that's awesome that happened. There's a big outdoor boot camp group in Atlanta that connected with us so they were live out in the park doing their workout but they connected in with us and did my workout everybody in that group is 65 and older.

Will:  

That's so awesome

AJ  

65 and older and we were doing Insanity live, we weren't doing low impact and they were killing it, so to be able to see them, they were all you know, doing the social distance thing and spread out, but the virtual allow them to connect into our bootcamp. So we just had like a massive fitness thing going on, you know, in all these different states and it was it was awesome. It was awesome experience so....

Will:  

--that I mean, that's so so great. Like anyone that follows me knows that one of my kind of one of the biggest things for me in fitness is bringing everybody into the circle. And being able to see like you connect with all the people that might have been a little bit shy about coming into that class before when it's being beamed into their lounge or their living room, that barrier to entry again, is just dropped. And yeah, it's just awesome to know that like, while this might have been a little bit difficult and tough for instructors to get the hit around the change, it really can reach people that we a need to reach and be we weren't necessarily able to reach before.

AJ  

That's right. That's right. It's right. Because we have now we have people coming in from all the states, you know, so and that's awesome, because it allows you to kind of reach your target audience, right? Because, you know, you might not your target audience might not be in your local community. Right. So that kind of limits you from a live perspective, right. A lot of instructors get discouraged because they're like, I can't find anybody to come to my XYZ class because nobody in my community wants to do that kind of fitness, but then you plug into virtual and you can reach massive amounts of people that are interested in that type of it. That's key. That's that's really that's really important because, you know, I'm pulling in some more people, you know, because my people are these conservative folks. And it's like, come on, just do something, you know, but now I got people who are like, but that group out in Atlanta 65 they're like 65 to 75. Yeah, they were going bezerk, I was like, what's in the water out there? Ya know? I'm like, I can't get these 20 and 30 year olds to even walk around the block, you know, it allows you to connect.

Will:  

It allows you to connect 100% so you and your bootcamps have people from like, Washington, Atlanta, Jamaica at times, I think I heard you say, all joining in on the same class. Yep.

AJ  

Chicago. Other parts of Virginia, North Carolina.

Will:  

So increasing the reach now. Jin, in talking about increasing reach and promoting I have been, I don't think I've ever seen so many people in a fitness class repost their own workouts as your fitness people. I know that when you teach a class because I see it because quite often I'm tagged in this, you have like 20 or 30 people who are sharing their own video of them doing the class in their house. And that must have a phenomenal impact on your ability to reach new people. So how did you do that? How did you encourage your people to get so up to sort of so excited about sharing their own experiences on their social media?

Jen  

Well, as you know, before this all happened, I always posted videos of the class. Yeah, yeah. So I think it was like kind of natural for them because I was always in their face, you know, and I like, I would joke I'm like, this is a production, you know, like...

Will:  

You're in the front row? Then you came to be the stars.

Jen  

Yeah, exactly. So I think it was kind of exciting. Well, I wasn't expecting it from them. But I think it was like a very, very, like natural transition for us all to stay connected. Because it's, you know, like you see everyone reposting these stories. And it's like, we're all doing the same thing. And it's, you know, and so you know, the thing with zoom is like AJ was saying, you can check everyone's form.

Will:  

Right? And they can see each other on the screen, right? Whereas they can't see each other in real time on Facebook. So this is a way for them to see each other just a little bit after.

Jen  

Yeah, so it's like, it's different, but it's the same. It really does keep everyone together. And they are like, you know, they get reposted by Sh1ft and they're like, yeah, you know, it's like, it just makes your day.

Will:  

So for any of you, for anybody listening, like I suggest kind of having a look at Jen's stories and taking notes on that because one great way to amplify your reach is to get people in your class to share and I think one thing that a lot of instructors, you guys and stuff that we've talked about when I've been talking to other instructors his people during this lockdown. And if if this continues or it goes back in, people are just craving connection. And so they're just more inclined to do things like videoing themselves doing work and sharing it just because they're craving some form of interaction. And so if you're an instructor, you can really harness that to increase your reach. And, like AJ said, to appeal to more people in your demographic that you're not local to. So you're no longer you're no longer stuck with just, you know, attracting people that want to do your type of classes that can drive to it. Now you can, you know, get anyone that can log in anywhere, and people are really willing to do that sharing because they crave the social connection. So you can kind of harness that to promote your message and promote your classes.

Jen  

Yeah, and I think for me, I don't, I mean, I take video of myself, but to me, it's like more important for my participants, and I think they have a better reach than I do because then their friends are like, Oh, what's that workout? What are you doing and and we are like growing that way where like, someone will randomly messaged me and be like, hey, I'm friends with so and so like, can I do workouts with you? So that's

Will:  

You have some really fit people in your classes too. There are some really, really good.

AJ  

I'm like, where did she find these people? 

Will:  

I know, I'm like do you teach at a university gym, are they all college athletes?

Jen  

I'm telling you, they were not always like that, like, you know, my superstar Jason. He was like in the back row. And the guy that works out with me, Mitch in my basement. He was uncoordinated. He couldn't like,

Will:  

A testiment to your instruction skills.

Jen  

It's like it's it's like crazy. It's It's why I do what I do. It's, to like see people get stronger and like mind body and soul. It's like everything to me.

AJ  

That's awesome.

Will:  

Now the other thing that I wanted to talk to you guys about, because I think that it is a really important message and we're kind of gonna we're gonna veer away from virtual for a minute and come back. Is that like, I have watched you guys supporting and big upping each other on social media for the last few months. And it's it always makes me really happy to see instructors helping other instructors to do well. Now you obviously, you're teaching on different platforms and you're reaching a different type of demographic and I see you cheering each other on. How did that come about? Because I know from my experience of being in the industry that sometimes as instructors, it can be a bit of a competitive industry, competing for classes. Now that everyone can go digital, it's very easy to fall into a trap of thinking that we're competing with each other again, when I think that there's so many people that aren't even doing fitness that there's just so many people that we've all got to reach them, that we can really work together and you should never feel like someone else's success is at the cost to you. But tell me how did you guys connect and how did you guys become such good friends?

Jen  

We connected via social media. For me, it was just like, I loved AJs vibe, like I would watch her videos and I was like, like I want to be there. I want to be a part of that, and we would kind of like, share, like what apps we were using. And that was just like very natural. Like, you know, there was never -- I think a lot of times instructors in the industry think like, we want something from each other. We're like trying to get like some angle. Yeah. We're like trying to get more followers or whatever. And to AJ and I, it was just, I don't know, we just kind of like weaved right in there. Like, yeah, let's hang out.

Will:  

And this is the bit that I was really surprised, you two guys have never met each other in person. Is that right?

AJ  

We haven't, but I think we talk every other night on social media where you know, we connect it because we were teaching the same fitness format. And so we would talk about different formats and different things and I would see what she was doing and I'm like, girl, how in the world did you do that 360 burpee?! You know, so we were just we just connected that way. I don't know. It's just, I think the advantage that I probably have is that I've never worked in the fitness industry, in a gym and but right from that perspective, yeah, so my nature is, you know, I like people, I like to connect with someone, I like other people's talents always have. I don't feel intimidated by other people's gifts and talents. I don't know how you can function in life like that. Right? And, and, and your motive and my motive for connecting with her is to learn what she's doing. Like, like you said, she's got a huge following and when I first saw that when she went, I used to always see her classes and see how many people were in the gym classes, which was great. But then when I saw what she how she exploded on the scene when she went through social media, I'm like, Jen! How did you do that? And shes's like, well here's what I did. I'm like, okay, I'm trying to get my three people to multiple to six, how do I do that? So, so she just talked to me and she was like, you know, but I just love her I love what she does and you know and even when you Will, like you didn't know, you didn't know me or connect with me until I joined Sh1ft right, but I had been following you for a while because when you were Beachbody live instructor you had done an insanity live workout. And I saw you in the workout and I was like, who is this dude that can match Shaun-T's energy, he's so real and authentic. So I started following, because you used to do crazy power jumps, crazy. I'm so into that, if I can, I don't know why wasn't a gymnast or something? I don't know. So I used to and every time you would post a video about that and you got hurt or something. 

Will:  

Oh, yeah, I hurt my back a couple years ago. 

AJ  

Yeah. And so and I was messaging you. I was like, oh, are you okay? I used to go to your page just to watch you do pirate jobs. I was like, I want to do that, I want to do it like that. Well, if I was hating on you, I wouldn't have been able to. When you are open to other people's talents and gifts, they inspire you and they open up whatever gifts and talents you have. If you are jealous, and competing in a negative way, I don't mean healthy competition. Yeah, I might get on there and be like, oh, gentlemen, kick your ass. But that's fun, right? Not real. Not real hate. But if I was negative that way, I wouldn't be able to enjoy your gifts. You couldn't inspire me. You couldn't. You couldn't lift me up. You couldn't, I couldn't draw from you. And that's what we're here for. We really are an ecosystem that should all be connecting for good in that April stuff.

Jen  

I don't know if there's anyone in the world that match your energy, AJ.

Will:  

I agree.

Jen  

Like I watch your stories and I'm telling, they bring me so much joy, like they get it Barbara, for an example like I watch a story on repeat.

Will:  

Me too. I've reposted that a few times.

Jen  

Like, your voice your energy, it's like, like, it's it's everything to me it really is. It's like, it's the definition of joy. 

AJ  

I appreciate that.

Will:  

So, tell me what do you think you would say the single biggest positive of going virtual has been? Jen, let's start with you.

Jen  

Being able to stay connected with everybody, yeah, that's number one. Because if I if I teaching group fitness is like such a huge part of my life, and if I lost it, I's probably be in a mental institution.

Will:  

No, that's a really that's a really interesting point. And, and one that we've actually, that is the topic of another podcast, which is kind of dealing with loss when it comes to losing your classes, because when you deliver something that's so important in your life that delivers you so much joy that brings you happiness, because you see the impact you're having on other people. And that gets taken away. It's pretty heartbreaking. And I think a lot of instructors have gone through a sort of grief period. And one of the things that I hope they get inspired to do from listening to you guys talk about your experience is that you don't have to lose it. And I know that a lot of people have jumped into virtual where a lot of people are at different points along the spectrum. Some are dipping their toes some of jumped in full steam like you guys and others are kind of still a little bit concerned about it. And I think that that message of if you love connecting with people, this is another way to connect with them is really important. Yeah, AJ, your number one best thing about or the number the biggest positive you have from going virtual.?

AJ  

For me, I think it's being able to connect with more people, same thing with Jen, you know, being able to stay connected. But being able to connect with more people and and just specifically being able to connect with these people during a global pandemic, let's take it here because I'm all about community outreach, touching people's lives, that's your whole life, your emotions, your physical, your spiritual, your mental, all that because that's what makes you a whole person, right? And we use that virtual platform to not only teach a group fitness class, but people wanted to talk about what was happening in the world. People were very emotional people. People were concerned. And we use that platform to allow people to say things that they probably would have never said in person because you finish the class and you got to leave the gym or you got to leave the bootcamp and go home. You know, one of the things I did was opened up my virtual classes free for any first responder, any responder. Yeah, and it's still open and free to first responders. And I had a I had nurses coming in these I had, so this is a lady who's worked out live with me before, but she lives far away. And so the virtual was a way for her to reconnect. Well she was a frontliner. And she just cried. You know, I just allowed her to talk because, you know, we use the platform for people that are involved people who had family members who died, you know, this nurse and she just cried just expressing, you know, what was going on. And it allowed us to really hear the impact of this pandemic was having on somebody who is on the front line, and you know, everybody has kind of rallied around her and said, What can we do to help and her response was, stay home. You know, that was such an impact. Everybody who was on that call got more than fitness that day, you know, so you can use the platform for whatever comes to mind. You know, it's not just about the fitness class, the thing, it's about connecting, but we used it as a community outreach, to talk about the global pandemic. You know, we've had like the whole book of Revelation has happened this year, right? We've had a pandemic, we've had a race riot? They've killed somdbody. So we, you know, we we took one of our fitness classes and did a moment of silence for George Floyd. We did a moving meditation where we didn't do any of the jumping in and sweating and acting crazy and having a good time. We talked about...

Will:  

...oop there's a dog somewhere...

AJ  

Yeah that's my dog, sorry!

Will:  

Just when you're getting deep

AJ  

Yeah, and see I ignore them. We, we talked about what was happening again with people and great races, not race. Yes, yeah, races, right cultures, what is happening, we're being pulled apart over skin color, and I can promise you, these people would have never had that open conversation in person. Yeah, but because everybody everybody's just tired. Everybody's guard was down. We had people from all different nationalities. It wasn't just African Americans. We had people from Puerto Rico. We had people from other countries, we had all because that's the other thing, I'm internet, I got people from all over the world, right? So and people just said stuff and express themselves probably in ways they wouldn't have done before. You can't, you can't buy that. And people felt comfortable enough to do it. You can't buy it, you can't fake it. You can't, you know, people felt comfortable enough to do it because they were at home and they could just, you know, home made him feel comfortable. So we've been able to maintain a small piece of humanity, using virtual.

Will:  

Because it's not just fitness, right? Like at the end of the day, fitness is meant to help you.

AJ  

It's not just physical fitness. Yes, it's not just physical fitness. So, you know, you know, I hope that people can see the value of that. And it's, it's the people that were involved, it wasn't the platform, platform doesn't matter. It's what are you willing to bring to the table and to the situation that we are in and what can you take and make of this situation? How do you take this horrible pandemic, this horrible race riot, you know, the dead, you know, everybody, just about everybody in that group either had somebody to die from COVID or knew someone, someone else who had a family member died, we talked about it, you know, people were scared, people are still scared. And so we just use the platform to just let people vent and talk and get things out. So I'm gonna go, you know...

Will:  

No, actually, I think that's a really important place to finish, which is that what you are  doing as an instructor more so now than ever is helping people to connect and it's, it could be connect with other people, it could be connect with you, it could be connect with their own bodies so that they can feel movement and feel free. But the stuff that you're doing as an instructor it like it makes an impact on people's lives in so much so many ways. Yeah and so being afraid of stepping in front of a camera because you've never done it before is the worst reason you can have for not doing it because it benefits the...

AJ  

because it's not about that, it's not about the camera. It's not about any of that people want to know you care people want to people want to be able to connect with you with whatever you have to bring to the table. Let me tell you, Jen was in the middle of the hurricane last week, she was teaching outside, then she had to pakc up all of our stuff and run home and then get back on right. All our people stayed there and waited, you know, because there's something about her that they connect with and it was worth the wait to them. You can't pay for it. You can't fake that. No need to be jealous over it because you can't, you can't read you just have to create your own. I've had technology,  so that weekend when I had the big boot camp from Atlanta, my computer decided to do an update. So these are new people that I've never worked with before. My people will wait, these are new people. What I did, I picked up my phone and got on, and I just started talking to them and we just connected and I started doing what I do. Yeah, and they were like, you know what, we're gonna wait.

Will:  

The power of your personality, AJ

AJ  

And they waited for 30 minutes, you know and and, and here's the thing, you don't have to be personality plus, you just have to be you. I just happen to have a big old personality. Jen has a big personality. You need to be you, you need to be authentic about whatever it is, people need to be authentic about whatever it is they want to give to other people. So you're serving other people. And if you are whatever that is, if you're authentic and you're quiet, mild mannered, and you don't like to, you're introverted. There's a whole bunch of introverts that will love  you, you know that you are still able to deliver something to those people. So, you know, it's not about the big personality. It's not about the calisthenics, how high you can jump, any of that, it's just about understanding how to reach people.

Jen  

I think people are afraid to show themselves. I think that's what where people miss the mark is they're afraid to like let themselves go. And once you let go, and show people your true self, no matter how big or small your personality is, when you give yourself to people, then everyone like feels that calm and they want to be a part of what happening.

Will:  

It's not about being perfect. It's about being real. So I think that's a wonderful place for us to finish, I just want to say thank you to you both for sharing your tips and stories. So in the show notes to this episode, we're going to put, we'll put some details around some of the equipment that you use. We'll also give links to both Jen and AJ social media so that you guys are listening, and can put a picture to some of the stuff that we've talked about. I just want to say personally, you guys are such an amazing part of the shift fitness community. So that's how we connected obviously, AJ, we've been speaking for a while but you guys are part of the shift community you really active. You're so supportive of all the other instructors and I just wanted to take this opportunity to say thank you so much for all you do for each other. For me and for other instructors. I think it's really inspiring. If we can finish on one thing, I just want to ask one thing of you and that's, if you had one piece of advice to give an instructor who's listening to this that hasn't tried virtual yet, sort of just one thing to tell them, what would it be? Jen, you go first. 

Jen  

Go for it. You just got to go for it. Because if you don't you're, you're missing the boat on so many opportunities to connect with people.

Will:  

AJ?

AJ  

Trust it, trust yourself, learn something new about yourself. If virtual is new to you, add something new to your life. Try something new.

Will:  

Perfect. And on that note, we're gonna finish out. So thank you both so much for joining us. And we will talk soon. See you later guys.

Will:  

Thanks so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed the interview. Now as I mentioned at the start, we've created really great downloadable guide for you. It's got an outline of Jen and AJ's  set ups, links to their top equipment recommendations, and then also their top tips for succeeding at Digital. It's definitely worth looking at. So you can check out the link in the show notes to download. If there are two things to take away from this episode, it's that number one: there's no one size fits all. When it comes to teaching virtually, you have to go with the delivery that suits you best. And don't be afraid to change your platform like Jen did if it's not working for you. Number two is that it's not easy. It's uncomfortable at first, and it takes time and testing to perfect your approach. So be like AJ, and take the time to prepare and test test test. What I love about both Jen's and AJ's stories is that they've taken what was an incredibly difficult situation and turned it into something really positive. Now, whether you'd like it or not, virtual is here to stay. And if you aren't teaching virtually, or you've been too scared to try, you are missing out on an opportunity. And it's not just about your own survival as an instructor. It's about helping others in your community. We're all in this together. And you can never underestimate the impact of the you have on other people's lives. Right before I go, I want to talk to you about next week's podcast. I'm going to be interviewing my old friends and body step legend, Vanessa Labort about body image and diversity in group fitness and the fitness industry. This is a topic that's very important to me. And I believe that it's a must listen episode for every instructor. I think it's fair to say that most of us have felt pressured by the fitness industry to look a certain way. But whether you've experienced this personally or not, we all have a responsibility as an industry to be more inclusive of diverse bodies. Because the more inclusive we are, the bigger the opportunity to improve the lives of our community. It's going to be a good one. So see you same time, same place next week. Thank you for listening. If you're enjoying the show, don't forget to subscribe for all the latest episodes wherever you get your podcasts. And while you're there, please drop us a review. You can also get in touch with me at will@sh1ftfitness.com. I'm Will Brereton and you've been listening to Group Fitness Real Talk.