Susan:  

And you know, I've been trying to give my instructors permission to be there. Right? Do something crazy, you know, if you want to be remembered, do something memorable.

Will:  

Hey, I'm Will Brereton, founder of Shift Fitness and this is Group Fitness Real Talk, a show about how to survive and even thrive as an instructor in 2020 and beyond. Welcome to Group Fitness Real Talk. Today on the show, we're taking a look into the life and career of my good friend Susan Renata. Now just a warning, Susan's a kiwi, I'm a kiwi and Kiwis tend to swear a lot. So just as a little bit of a warning, there is some slightly salty language in this podcast. So if that's a problem, maybe best you listen to it by yourself. Now we're going to be talking about how Susan got started in fitness has showed a tap into Les Mills and what it's been like to work for the biggest group fitness brand in the world. Now, what I love about Susan, why we're such good friends and why I was so keen to get her on the show is that she never shied away from the truth. She shares a lot of real talk, including the ups the downs, and gives you a real behind the scenes look into life at the very top of Les Mills. But before we get to the interview, I wanted to share something that you're going to love. The big passion that Susan and I share is transforming instructors from good to great. And in this episode, we wanted to find a way for all of our awesome podcast listeners to do just this. So as you'll hear in the interview, Susan is actually a life coach. And she's been doing more and more of that alongside her Les Mills work. And she's called on that experience to help me create a special quiz and exercise for this episode. It's called finding your unique strengths as an instructor. Now, this is an approach that's normally taught at advanced courses. That costs a lot of money but we wanted to give you access to this as we think it's super valuable as an exercise and something that every group fitness instructors should do now more than ever, you can find the download link in the show notes. I think this is actually my favorite resource that we've created to date. So don't miss out. right on to the interview.

Will:  

So Susan Renata, welcome to the show. How are you?

Susan:  

Hi, I'm Wonderful. Thank you, Will!

Will:  

And what time is it where you are? 

Susan:  

It's just gone 7am and it's a very cold winter's morning in New Zealand.

Will:  

Of course, because I'm sitting here sweating because it's the middle of summer here but I forget it's obviously the opposite of that where you are.

Susan:  

It is and don't be fooled by the white t-shirt. My trusty little oil heater is on beside me.

Will:  

Do you consider yourself to be a morning person?

Susan:  

Yes.

Will:  

So I've got you at the best time...

Susan:  

100%

Will:  

So I've known you a very long time, but I'd love the people listening to get to know you. I'm going to jump in with you. Two big questions. It's a two part question which I know you'll be able to feel perfectly. And that is: when did you find your passion for fitness? And then how did you find yourself as the face and head of education and training for one of the biggest programs in the world, Body Pump?

Susan:  

Wow. How long have we got? No, I can actually shorten that right down. I remember my mother and her friends taking me to a jazzercise class at the local community hall. And I remember wearing my leotard because I was a gymnast, and I remember this room full of people. Probably there was a record player or something in the background. I remember the music gramophone, something and I remember us running around the room which was probably the precursor to body attack and Something just switched in me actually. And I thought, oh my goodness, I love this, you know, a lot of the movements were quite callous finicky. So it was an extinction to, you know, my background and gymnastics. And so that was sort of I was probably aged about 10, somewhere between 10 and 13. And not long after that I joined the local gym. And if I can just put some kind of context around. This would have been the late 80s when competitive aerobics was at its peak. And funnily enough, the New Zealand peers champions, which was Gary Hudson, Gary and Lee Hudson, owned the local community gym and of course, you know, back then and across all sports aerobics was, you know, huge. And I thought, well I'm going to join this local gym. And that was a classic shoulder tap situation, you know, I would go to these classes after school. And Gary actually shoulder tapped me and said, you know, do you realize you'd make a great instructor and I thought, Okay, cool. I've got the outfit. I'm wearing my G string on the outside...

Will:  

--actually probably a common experience. I got the shoulder tap, and I've spoken to lots of other instructors who got the shoulder tap...

Susan:  

Just a pure shoulder tap. And I guess that's where you know, talent sees talent or you know, someone see something in you that you don't actually know that you have and then off I toddled down to Otago University to do a physio degree and of course, I didn't want to work in a bar and I didn't want to waitress drunk people. So I started teaching at the local YMCA. And back then it was freestyle. So I was making up, I was literally...I had A tape deck and I would hold my tape deck that was a double tape deck so you could record from one to the other.

Will:  

Yes--

Susan:  

--and then from the record player I try to tape it and I made a cassette and yeah probably another classic story that resonates with other instructors one day the instructor didn't turn up. 

Will:  

Yep

Susan:  

Yup.

Will:  

So this is Susan's time to shine...

Susan:  

Here I go. And so that became my way to one: in income, two: stay sober, three: not have to pay a gym membership. So

Will:  

Yeah, resonates with me.

Yeah, those are the days we did it in bare feet on a concrete floor, which is why, you know ,my bodies and pieces now, but

Will:  

--knee replacements later...

knee replacements, arthritis, so let's not go there. 

Will:  

Another podcast.

Susan:  

Yeah. So I started as a freestyle instructor from many years, for about five years, and then I joined the police. After my physio degree, I worked in a gym I basically worked on the gym floor and looked after the timetable. And after doing that for a few months, I thought it was on an annual salary of $14,000. I think it was, which wasn't a lot of money then, that's definitely not a lot of money now. Right? And one of the guys that used to come to my classes was a police officer, and they said, you know what, you'd actually make a really great PTO. Have you thought about you know, doing that? I thought, Oh, yeah. bossing people around, Sergeant Major Susan, get down and give me 20. But to do that, I had to actually go through formal police training, which was six months in particular and I just fell in love with police work. And so I managed the two at the same time. So I would daytime police officer, nighttime aerobics instructor and I got stationed up in Auckland and blew my ACL. At the time I was working in Auckland central police station and right around the corner was good old Liz Knowles Auckland City who the group fitness manager at the time was my drinking partner from Otago, Emma Barry.

Will:  

A friend of the show, Emma Barry.

Susan:  

 That lady, that woman...we were like bookends at the bar you know...

Will:  

You know each other from prior to Les Mills? You knew each other as guffeys...

Susan:  

--we, we totally did. We laugh because back then I had one eyebrow. And I think how we got to be good buddies was we had mutual friends who played netball so Emma was a really good netball player. I was a terrible netball player, but I flirted with a whole bunch of very, very good netball players. So--

Will:  

--For all the Americans listening to this, we'll add a link to netball...I'ts like basketball with more agility.

Susan:  

With more injuries. Yes. So yeah, I knew Emma and I sort of said to her, you know, I want to come in, I joined as a member actually, I didn't want to teach, I wasn't teaching because of this injury. And I joined up and was just going to classes you know, doing the old step class here and there. And one day on my way to the gym, I was riding my bike and coming down a hill straight towards the gym. And a car nearly drove me off the road and of course, you know, and it was profanities both ways. Yeah, and I pull up outside the gym, I go up to the step class, and the person who was teaching, the step class, was the person who nearly ran me off my bike. 

Will:  

I'm sure there was some further abuse from the stage on the floor. 

Susan:  

Oh, God. So, that was the beginning. He was the first person because Emma had moved overseas. He was the first person that I really met at Les Mills and Carla, and because I loved step, it was freestyle, Reebok, Reebok back in the day, and he another shoulder tap, you know, would you like to be a step instructor? So it was my first Les Mills program. Um, and I, my first class that I got was on a Tuesday at 10 past seven, which just so happened to be the class directly after Mike McSweeney's Body Pump at 16.

Will:  

Yeah, so for context how many people would have been in their studio at the peak of Mike's time?

Susan:  

I look at 200, easy, and of course I used to walk up and back in those days that was an actual box. I think they weren't even steps they were an actual wooden box. And they would just be this mass of people. And of course I would arrive early like all good instructors do. And I would just watch the guy smash a workout and these people were just so intuitive. And I scratched my head and I thought, what's the catch here like, bicep curls really?

Will:  

Were you into weights? Were you a weightlifter or you a--

Susan:  

not really, a big cardio girl. I mean, I flattered underneath gujn with a decathlete so he used to drag me along to the gym and do these ridiculous weight training sessions. But I'm, I physically wasn't built to naturally move weights, like I was a gymnast. So, you know, I was more ballerina style. And so we, you know, we developed this rapport because I had no idea that he was the king of the castle. So I used to walk up on stage and go, Hey, mate, next time you need to like finish on time at least and then put your weights away douchebag, right, and I think he quite enjoyed the fact that I really didn't give a shit who he was.

Will:  

Right. This is Mike McSweeney, who for anyone that doesn't know was the sort of the first one of the first big presenters for body pump helped create the program. And for a long time when body pump first existed on the world stage was the face the choreographer, the program director, the everything,

Susan:  

--everything and in particular, the real mad dog, train hard guy, like Mike just drove the program from an athletic place and I think that's how pump managed to be so successful because it was always about the workouts.

Will:  

Right. Because how it kind of came out of the group fitness kind of from the ashes of jazzygenics into something that was modern and new and involved guys, as well and have weights involved.

Susan:  

All of that, I mean, that whole journey of Pump is a podcast in and of itself. So, I would watch these legends, you know, they'd have filmings and workshops and because it was in Auckland City, and I was quite taken aback and inspired by the likes of Donna McCourt and Ruth Tayner, who was also, so Ruthie T. back in the day, was a body stepper and a pumper so she kind of was my role model type thing. And I just made a decision one day as I'm going to find out what this is Pump thing is about so I put myself on a on a module. And it was actually the same module as Marc Sinclair, another legend. And then I tapped myself in that take a poner because I was so shit scared of teaching pump at least when I was in Auckland City that I would be, I felt fraudulent.

Will:  

Yeah, the home of where all the big, good instructors taught and yeah, the big stage, everybody's eyes on you...

Susan:  

and I, you know, and I was a stepper, so I had to really--it took me six months to learn how to stand still, direct things and not do finales and you know like, not sing. You know, I had to really--because I think step and pump are like almost the complete--

Will:  

-- so that's actually an interesting thing. So, body pump, even though you obviously kind of got to the absolute top of the world and presenting body pump, it didn't come to you instantly. It wasn't like, immediate fit with who you are as a presenter, or an instructor.

Susan:  

No. One big thing I learned out of module was that I was weak. And so--

Will:  

--as in, physically, like lifting weights physically?

Susan:  

Physically weak, yeah, yeah, my legs, my legs are okay. I've always managed to pull out a really good lunge and a squat, but my upper body was terribly weak. So I knew I had to hit the gym. Just to bring that authenticity, you know, so that I could actually make it to the end of the track without collapsing. But I took myself to take a poster and that's where I really started to look at what the greats were doing. And then use that as role modeling to become a great Pump teacher. Then the game changer happened when, you know, pre-me, the look, the female look for body pump was was shredded. Very, very ripped, you know, lean, lean, lean, lean, lean. And I think a decision somewhere was made you know, that's, that's not accessible for most women. Yeah. Um, so let's get her fatty.

Susan:  

I'm sure that was exactly what was going to people's mind. So who's the, who's that, oh it's Susan. 

Susan:  

It's Susan. Let's get fatty. I, I think that that was the original idea. And so Mike kind of got me team teaching with him a little bit. And then another interesting thing happened an instructor came down from overseas and he wasn't what they expected to be. And so Mike said, quick jump up and of course, I jumped up with Michelle Bridges. And I am I ended up being on a DVD and that was a DVD that went to know where it was right in the middle of music licensing issue. So it was sort of like the Australasian DVD. But that's where I think my potential was, was nurtured.

Will:  

So, that's really interesting as I think of you as such an amazing teacher with a presence and an ability to deliver coaching, but what you're saying is that your sort of opportunity came from the luck rather than the teaching, or a combination of both.

Susan:  

I think a combination of both, I think when I got on stage, you know, I nailed it. And Michelle was was pretty wrapped up in those days as well. I mean, she's still incredibly lean. Back in those days, I mean, she was an ex lifter, competitive lifter. And so you know,I knew I had to step my strength game up, which wasn't very good. So I just filled it up with personality.

Will:  

Yeah, for sure. Look over there!

Susan:  

If I can't out lift anyone in the room, I'm going to out teach in the room. 

Will:  

Yeah, for sure. Because the amount of weight you had on your bar during filming was a thing, right? Like it was it was noted.

Susan:  

Yeah. And that speaks to the history. And you know, Mike was always driving, how much weight you know, more weights, more, more, more. And, you know, I had to get myself to a point where it was authentic, but I couldn't ever lift, I never had the most lights in the room, ever, especially when I went up to Scandinavia, those Nordic girls, woah, more than the boys. So that sort of started my my DVD career if you like, and then I was probably one of the few people who caught Mike at the end of his career, if you like, you know, people's peak to end if you like, Yeah, yep. And so, according to the outsiders looking on had sort of softened off a little bit, you know, And I learned all of my stage craft from him and such

Will:  

--people on the stage, in the middle of a track.

Susan:  

Now 10 years in the police have prepared me for that.

Will:  

Yep. Hold no prisoners, direct feedback. Very, very Kiwi, New Zealand?

Susan:  

Yes. Oh, man. Not a lot of people could handle that. And sometimes it was it was pretty hard to take and it was pretty hard to hear. But with Mike there was always an element of the truth behind, even if the delivery was a bit, you know. Um, but he was always about two things. He was always about the three levels that are the most important. One, the music. And his direct feedback would be, either stop killing my song, or don't make me teach the whole release. Snd amongst those two pieces of feedback, I would have to kind of craft what he was talking about. Yeah. And I'd listened to, you know, because he was so passionate about the songs that he'd painfully. you know, chosen the night before. So I had to navigate ways of what worked and what didn't, and there wasn't a massive amount of people inputting it that time, I just had to try and figure that stuff out. 

Will:  

Right, because now in sort of, and we will talk about sort of the current fitness industry, but now with at the time, you know, videoing yourself was actually, you know, problematic, right? Like you had to carry the tripod and the camcorder. Then you had to get that thing and plug it into the TV. And so just recording yourself and seeing yourself back. It's not like today when you can literally give yourself feedback five minutes after class on your phone, like it was if you didn't have someone sitting there watching you and then giving you live feedback. It was very hard to get it.

Susan:  

Exactly. And sometimes, you know, we'd teach a class Mike would have the video, he was super tech guy. And then he would go and play golf. And he'd say, meeting at my house 730 tonight, and then you'd sort of, you know, spend the whole day going, God, what have I done? What have I done? So, the bonus is that I grew up in a musical house, in a musical home. So my mom was a singer. She was a performer. She was constantly and, and musicals. And so I knew how to play with music. Yeah. And you had to be dramatic with music. So I, it's not like I had to learn it from scratch. I just had to understand what the essence of the song was and how to match that with a bicep curl. 

Will:  

Yeah, right.

Susan:  

So it's, you know, in step we were so much more flamboyant and unable to express but--

Will:  

Right, you can jump higher you can jump bigger or you can do, you can do something bigger but a bicep curls is a bicep curl is a bicep curl, right? Like and you can't put more weight on halfway through the chorus.

Susan:  

No, kicking your legs around was totally not on the essence. You know? So I had to craft the musicality.

Will:  

Right and that would come down to your timing of what you were saying, how you were saying it, and when you were saying it?

Susan:  

Yeah, like understanding the essence of the song. Understanding the the musicians purpose of the song so what's in the message of the music? And then just learning when to shut up.

Will:  

Yeah, let the music speak.

Susan:  

Just just let, just shut up. Stop. Stop speaking. So for Mike it was always about the music. And the part two was always around the workout. And the one overriding thing was always his feedback was, if you can't feel it, you can't coach it.

Will:  

That's, that's really interesting. 

Susan:  

Yeah. And that was always at the essence of, you know, like, you want to get yourself to the point where you're in the zone so much that you can actually take people with you. And that was the inspirational side of it. So you don't have to put your pants on and do full push ups, which was a real struggle for me.

Will:  

--that's something that I, having traveled around the world and seeing people who teach, because some instructors when they do it for a living, you know, they teach 20 classes a week, and that comes at a cost and that you just can't do every workout as hard as the class. But for sure, the best classes I've ever been to, in a group fitness context, you know, are the ones where the instructor does the whole workout with you and does it with you, is working as hard as you are, is pushing when you're pushing.

Susan:  

Yeah. And I really empathize. I mean I've done trainings globally and I've been through Asia and I've been through Australia, where instructors and our industry and the UK are teaching to make a living. But the big, I guess, take home around that as always, Philip's ethos, which was: focus breeds genius. If you want to be a great Pump teacher, focus on being a great Pump teacher. So then the third lever I guess, that we always with pulling in pump was connection and, you know, being so present and being able to, if someone blinked, you caught it. Yeah, if someone, if someone had they shot a shoulder out of alignment, you caught it. You know, and

Will:  

--Mike was renowned for seeing, being all seeing,all knowing sour on, like everything in the room.

--everything and I learned that from him, you know, because he would he'd come off and oh didn't you see, so and so do such and such. And I'd be like, what? You know, focused on my teaching. But that ability, the ability to be really connected. And then the other word that sits strongly as charisma. Yeah, so Mike had massive stage charisma, you know, he'd be smiling while he was getting you to do something you really didn't want to do.

Will:  

So you're, you are delivering on international DVDs for Les Mills. But you're based in New Zealand. Tell me how you made the step into doing so much international travel.

Susan:  

Obviously I had a physio degree. So I'm, you know, I'm an educator by trade. And I was selected as a presenter for an advanced instructor module bit, Philip and Jackie had put together, there were five or six of us, actually and we were invited. I had to go to a global summit, it was in Portugal, I think it was. I can't remember what year it was 2004 I think it was, or 2002. And I was a detective at the time. And I got this incredible opportunity to travel and meet these trainers from all over the European part of the world. And the opening was a Maori performance. And I remember being overseas and every part of my body went into this mess of stage of goosebumps and I realized at that moment, this is where I'm meant to be. Yeah. And at the time, Maureen Baker, who's the Maureen Baker, who's the international training director was looking for another Auckland based a system. Yeah. And it was actually Dion Forbes who, she said to me you know, Maureen wants someone to help her with the education, would you be interested? I said absolutely. So I applied for the job, got it, left the police--

Will:  

--right so moved from the police to Les Mills international full time doing education, as well as doing the presenting and the DVDs and instructing side.

Susan:  

Yep. And so those two worlds started to amalgamate, you know, like, there was a title back then called an IMT. So it was an international Master Trainer. So you would literally go and upskill trainers around the world. So I started doing a couple of those, I think Taiwan, which was where a lot of us, you know, early days, our foundation was up there, and then I just started having a presence. So when you have a presence on the DVDs, people want to meet you live, what they didn't realize that a lot of people didn't realize that what they got on the DVD was actually what they got live and sometimes more.

Will:  

Yes. So you were one of the trainers, so when Les Mills and BTS sort of broke up in the mid 2000s, you were one of the trainers that went over and set up Les Mills USA and did a lot of the big sort of heavy lifting on the training then right?

Susan:  

Yep, yep. 2005 we asked the agency to cease and desist and we basically set up a mini agency. And there were a bunch of Kiwis. We also had a Swede, couple of Aussies. And we literally built a trainer team from zero to 106 weeks. It was absolutely amazing.

Will:  

So how did you do that? What did you What did what are we looking for?

Susan:  

Well, I knew what the boys were looking for. Here's my pecks or here's the boys pecks. There was a lot of bossoms in those pecks right? 

Will:  

Yep.

Susan:  

Um Well, we wanted to represent New Zealand so I think the feedback and the conversation at the time from the Americans was you know what, how you do it in New Zealand, they don't like it over here. You know, according to the guidelines you're not allowed to do for clean and presses in a row.

Will:  

Right, I remember all of this. Yeah, there were a lot of rules around it. Which is interesting, isn't it because flash forward, you know, the days of insanity and high intensity training and like to think that there were rules around how many clean and presses you could do in a row in 2005. When now people are doing like, everything that they're doing is just insane and crazy. So to pre-CrossFit, the level of regulation and rules around group fitness, I think that for those of us that have been around for long enough to remember it, like we knew it was there, but if you got into group fitness, sort of in the last 10 years, I think you will be staggered by the restrictions that used to be in place in this data space, especially.

Susan:  

Yeah, keeping it safe, you know, which which we challenged and that was, you know, a big part of changing the world, which was one of our values, is one of our values. Yeah, we, we sent an email to every group fitness instructor that was teaching a Les Mills program in America. I think at the time it was it was in the thousands, like maybe two and a half thousand or something like that. And they got an email and picture this: So if you're Liz Mills instructor you wake up one morning and this is the email you get: as of such and such a date, unless your club signs up with Les Mills, USA, you will no longer be able to teach any Les Mills release. Ouch. So what we didn't anticipate and what actually happened was there was this instructor revolution, right? Yeah. But the instructors just went crazy. And they signed, they had to email us back to say, yes, I'm signing up with you, but of course, the clubs had to sign up.

Will:  

Right, right.

Susan:  

So all these, if you can imagine, you know, all these predominantly females back then, were harassing their club managers. Andwe didn't realize the power of our tribe and the--

Will:  

--the instructors

Susan:  

--of the instructors. Yeah, it was just phenomenal. And so we then sent out a further email because we knew that there were a lot of people that had applied to be trainers and had been tuned down. So we inherited the Canadians so they automatically came across for that. So they were a team of about 30. And so while we were doing admin in the morning and stuff, me and the boys that was then, there was Alani, Steve Pete, Bhevan, Yusuf, we would watch these videos and that evening and try to, you know, impact talents. So we all had our specialty programs, and we picked about 120 people, we invited them to Las Vegas and we changed their lives in three days we, we then sent them out, those that were successful, we sent them out. And if you can imagine it was me at one end, Emma at the other, no one could understand a word that we said, we were going 100 miles an hour, you're in you're out, you're out, you're out, you're terrible. You're good, you know, like there was more tears the strip than ever before. But we had a team and we literally spent the next three months taking these guys out on trainings, teaching them the content, but teaching them delivery, teaching them the culture and then generally getting them boozed at some point.

Will:  

Yeah, classic. So then you replicated that in sort of for the next what would it be decade you spent a lot of that traveling around the world, doing that sort of task for training teams all over the world all over the Les Mills world. What is it that you remember most about that time when it comes to kind of the characteristics of a great instructor? What were you looking at? 

Susan:  

Well, I think I've always got Mike in the back of my mind. If it was pump, it was always about the workout, the music and the connection because you're grounded and you're still. I think with step, it was always about the, you know, we did some work, you know, 10, 15 years ago, maybe that helped us understand the essence of each program. And I think that was a real characteristic because you can tell anybody to say, ABC. But if they're not on the essence of the program, then it's not going to sound like ABC. Yeah, it's going to sound bleh. So I guess, you know, I stopped doing initial trainings and I moved into the advanced, so I was looking, not at, can you drive a car, but can you drive a car really well? So my filter changed.

Will:  

And so what is it that you saw and instructors that, what was it that changed when they went from being able to do it okay to being able to do well? What was the transformation that way they went through that you helped them get to?

Susan:  

One, physicality. So, you know, you've got to, you've got to physically represent the program. So that's, you know, balance, it's be able to execute the moves. I think at that point, I was always coaching particularly in America. Yeah. The big driver was do something that you don't get on the DVD.

Will:  

Right? Okay. Yeah, exactly. deliver something in the live environment that you're not going to get on a video.

Susan:  

Yes, that was my big message whenever I went round, and we would inevitably do advanced training and we would do quarterly workshop and I would get the trainer teams and I'd be like, okay, so these guys have got the DVD. They've seen it. Yeah. What are you going to do to one, be memorable? Because when we were actually like, financially, these guys had to pay you, like, we can't take money off them, and then just give them what they've already got at home. I wouldn't, I wouldn't travel six hours, if I could just sit down and just gonna get what I got at home.

Will:  

And I think this is something that's also like really pertinent to the age we find ourselves in where there is just so much fitness video. And if you are an instructor, and you are like in the COVID situation, you're delivering live stream classes, you still have to think what can I give them that is better than the pre recorded video version of this class? And I think that like well, we'll talk a little bit more about kind of finding strengths, but that question is still the key question. It's why should this person come to this class and what am I going to give them?

Susan:  

Yeah, I mean, who would have thought that we were living in such a virtual you know, in such a virtual space but you know, at Les Mills in Auckland City, I've got, you know, a third of the classes are virtual. So you know, be better than that.

Will:  

Yeah, they've got that. Why are they gonna come to you?

Susan:  

Yeah, and, and interesting that we're here because that's really what it was about in the quarterlies it was give them something that they're not going to get on a DVD and talk to them like instructors. You know, like, hey instructors, you know, ahh this piece of music is like epic, you know, teachers when you're teaching, you know, like, give them a tip or give them a solo release, you know, sell the workout. And I think that that was always the next level when when you're not just teaching the workout, but you're teaching it with extra, you're giving extra, you're leaning into more of who you are. You're, you're vulnerable about being you. You're not trying to be someone else, you know.

Susan:  

That was the sort of stuff that I made that was juicy stuff.

Will:  

Right and so now you are the group fitness manager of Les Mills, Auckland. So you're still teaching right?

Will:  

Yep. Yep.

Will:  

Still teaching but also managing instructors at you know, one of the best gyms in the world that has been for decades and continues to be. What differences do you see in the way instructors instruct now? So in 2020 versus say 10-15 years ago when you were on the International Circuit, like, are there any differences that you notice?

Susan:  

Yes, I think we've had a massive transition. So when I was sort of, you know, teaching presenting internationally, let's call it 15 years ago, um, you know, that was a way that was real. It was raw, it was rugged. 

Will:  

It wasn't filmed. Fortunately, there was no social media back then, so, a few photos that's about it.

Susan:  

Oh, had some very interesting introductions in my time. We've gone through this massive phase of coaching, right? And, you know, layer one, layer two, layer three with coaching the coaches, they run the coach, coach, coach, coach, coach, coach. Right. And we needed to do that, because it brought into some some intelligence and integrity and some education, you know, for people to understand what it was they were doing. Yeah, I think the pendulum has swung very, very far. So the teachers that have come through sort of call it five to six in the last five to six years, they're only coaching,

Will:  

Right. And when you say coaching just for anyone who's not a Les Mills instructor, that means just delivering the workout, the what, the how, and how you do it better.

Susan:  

Yeah, so the fundamentals.

Will:  

the essentially the things that the things that every instructor should do well in order to deliver a good workout, which are the building blocks, but aren't necessarily individual to that instructor, right. Like it's kind of the stuff that every person could do if they learned how to do it well.

Susan:  

That's right, like driving a car. You got your drive, you got your driver's certificate, you can get, you know, you can carry people in your car from A to B, and no one dies.

Susan:  

And I think what's happened, you know, as the focus has been so strong in that area that the other two, you know, fundamentals which are you know, performance and, and connection had kind of have kind of dropped off. And interestingly that we find ourselves in the times of of, you know, post COVID, is that no one cares if their knees are in line with their toes and I have, I have briefed my instructors, too. Layers, one, two and three should you know, the first three key elements should be a given. What we should doing now is making people feel amazing. That can start with connection. Yeah, right. The good old fashioned, you're the host, you know, you welcome people and, and then--

Will:  

because that was kind of if I think back to when I started in 1999 2000 it was personality, right? Like I got drawn in by charisma. And then throughout my career, I learned more skills and I became very proud of being able to deliver those skills and to teach those skills to other people. But when I look back on it, like the people that I was drawn to were the ones that was just fucking funny and or exciting, and unexpected and surprising and that you enjoyed going to and none of that had to do with it. Like I got a good workout because I was engaged in it, not because I was being coached in it.

Susan:  

Yeah. Yeah, so that's exactly right. And so, I think you know, I always aliken  teaching to a pendulum, you know, sort of swung all the way over here, when we're getting people safely, when we're coaching them and educating them. But now I think, particularly post what we've been through as we need to swing back, we'll keep those skills but start, start with the experience, you know, what do you want people to experience when they come in? And we're, that's what that's the blurry but because that's the unique you, right? You, you would welcome me into your home differently than how I would welcome someone into my home. So it's understanding who you are. And, you know, I've been trying to give my instructors permission to be there. Don't just...do something crazy, you know, like, if you want to be remembered, do something memorable.

Will:  

Now this kind of, is a really nice segue into what I was really came to talk to you about which is some of the work you've been doing with your coaching business and also like it aligns with all of the work you've done with instructors over the course of you know, a decade and a half is how does someone go about finding what is it about them that is unique and special? Like how do you find your strength?

Susan:  

I think we all know our strengths. I think we all have an innate sense of when we are coming from a place of authenticity. And I think, you know, if you think about how you are when you're with your friends and your family, then that's probably who you are at your true self. And, you know, I've always been the class clown, and, you know, a bit outrageous, and I always know that people like to talk to me about their problems. So I've got a big empathy driver. You know, I've done a lot of personal development work, so that stuff really, really helps you to understand who you are and what your purposes is.

Will:  

It's worth just saying here that we, in the show notes there, there's a handout that goes with this podcast, it actually has a really good quiz for finding your strengths. So even if you're struggling to think of what they might be, Susan actually has provided us with a great free quiz that you can take. And that will give you some results. Sorry, to jump in, just letting people know that if they're struggling and they're thinking, oh but I don't know what my strength is. That's okay. We can help you out with that. But back to you.

Susan:  

Absolutely. And that was it was actually a test provided to me by my friend, and when I did it, you know, I discovered my top five and each one of those was right, of course it is. Of course it is. You know, number one, my character strength is humor. But it gave me some intelligence around why I'm the funny person you know, it gave me context, you know. I've used it naturally to help lighten the mood, to help people see a different perspective to, you know, sometimes just keep it real. I use it to connect people because we've all got shared funny stories. And so once I sort of understood what my top and you just look at the top five, you sort of go oh ok, that's why I do what I do. And the whole ethos and the well being side of it is that if you're prepared to lean into your superpowers, if you are willing to be more of who you are, you're going to be far more engaged in what you do. Yeah. And you'll be far more likely to, you know, write your sort of personal satisfaction, pie. So why wouldn't you do that? You know, I think there's an old story around, you know, Lehman, you got to work on your weaknesses, right. And I guess understanding, not even weakness, but what we what we're less strong in, so you know, if you're not a funny person, don't be funny.

Will:  

Yeah, don't try be funny. Trying to make your weaknesses better is hard, right? Like, I'm trying to learn French at the moment, and it's a weakness, and it's hard and I'm not really enjoying it, I'm sure I'll get there. But if you're constantly thinking about the stuff that you do wrong, and trying to fix that it can just suck the joy and engagement out of what you're doing, and at a cost of not leaning into the stuff that you really love. And I think that as instructors, we often compare ourselves to other people and think, oh, they're much more funny than me or they're the way they execute that move as much better than me. And you try and sort of build up the areas that you feel you're deficient in, which like minimizes your joy and also doesn't allow you to step into your full self of what you're really good at.

Susan:  

Absolutely, and, you know, and I guess it comes with age, wisdom, you know, as just accepting what you are and accepting what you're not, but also looking to others and acknowledging their strength. So, kindness is not as not high for me. So if I want, if I want to do an act of kindness, sometimes I've got to tune to the people in my life who are really good at that stuff and go well, okay, so I'm thinking about doing this thing. How would you do it? You know, give me some ideas, but I don't beat myself up about that. You know, I just I think there's a authentic thing you know, and what people are smart, you might be on stage and you're might be faking it and whatever. People know when you're not being your true self.

Will:  

Yeah. Now more than ever, like when people are locked up. It's so worth noting that, Susan in New Zealand, is relatively back to normal. I'm recording this podcast in London, where we are not in lockdown, but parts of the UK are and various parts of the states are kind of going back into it. So we're in Susan's in the lucky position of being back teaching live. So you're kind of at the end of this, I'm sort of in the middle and some people listening to this, who knows if you're listening to this a little bit later, you may be back in lockdown and back teaching through the screen. But the stuff that we're talking about really does apply to in person or teaching through a screen kind of whatever you're doing, right. It's the connection that matters. I think you mentioned something that Dave, one of the other instructors that said, about like the reasons for coming back into the gym.

Susan:  

Yeah. He said, you know, after we had an eight week, I guess, you know, so he was doing on demand and workouts online and he said, you know what, there's only two things that are going to get me back into the gym. And this is a very motivated, you know, teacher. He said one is the equipment because I don't have the equipment at home and two, is the instructor, but I want the instructor. You know, any us me says, you know when you stand on stage I get all of you I get the crazy cow, which I am, is, you know, I get the crazy cow I get the comedian, but I'm not, I guess in context I don't. I'm not a stand up comic show. Yeah. I don't I don't get up there and it's not you know, like Robin Williams. It's, but if something's funny, I acknowledge it. You know, and I don't feel pressured that I have to stay in this you know, pump box the whole time. I'm literally just being myself on stage.

Will:  

And what like giving the giving yourself the permission to be you. How does that impact your teaching and when you have seen other instructors that you work with, sort of unlock that? What does it change for them?

Susan:  

Oh, I think a whole lot of pressure comes off, you know, Les Mills, Auckland City has been sort of the pod for talent. And there's a lot of pressure on the instructors because the program directors are there. And, you know, I think when I see someone teaching, not themselves, it just looks like a stressful experience looks like it would be energy sucking. And, and also, there's an emotional backdrop to that of disappointment not being good enough. Right. And, and you know that our members in particular have been exposed to some great teachers. Yeah. And they know when someone's just not being themselves. 

Will:  

Yeah. I think everybody knows, right, I think like, that's where they as humans were trained to, even if you don't necessarily particularly like a quality in a person, there's a decent amount of respect that comes just from acknowledging that someone's living in themselves and being authentic and travels through in a fitness environment probably more than any other. That actually brings us to kind of good point to, I think close out this chat. But before we do, I really like to understand from you if you could give one piece of advice to an instructor that was listening to this and so, think of an instructor that is back teaching live or maybe someone that is live zoom live streaming to their participants, because they're locked out and they're not able to, they're not able to connect in person. What's one piece of advice from your years of training instructors that you would give them? Big Question.

Susan:  

All of that. That's a that's a positive sigh, so let me try to distill this down. I think I'll use my own personal experience. You know, when you're when you're putting yourself out there and you're opening yourself up for feedback always bring it back to why you are doing what you are doing. Why are you in the fitness industry. You know, why are you doing what you're doing? Because once you tap into why you do it, the risk just goes away. Right? So understanding, you know, well one, be real. Two, don't be a dick. Right? And three, just love what you do and love what what impact that has on people's lives. You know, if you can change one person's life in they in turn and change another person's life, so always be present for what's in front of you. That was like 500 things.

Will:  

I think it's okay, I think it's okay.

Susan:  

So the essence of what I'm saying is, you know, just drive from passion.

Will:  

Yeah. lean into your strengths and be happy and let that happiness sort of bring joy to the people around you.

Susan:  

Exactly.

Will:  

So just to wrap this up, one quick question. So what's next for Susan? for anyone that's been following your career and hasn't seen you for a while?

Susan:  

Oh, look, you won't see me for a while. I'm terrible at social media. I just, I don't know, my background is like, you know, I was grew up sort of like sit at the table. Shush, you know. Be quiet, be seen, not heard. And so I'm, well I'm dabbling. Well not dabbling. I'm becoming a certified coach, which is helping--

Will:  

Which is a great step for you, I have to say...

Susan:  

-- great step for me, and I can't wait to really launch and it's coming. So my website's being built. But that's, you know, so what I have learned about myself is that teaching group fitness has been a platform to make a positive impact on people's lives. But I don't want to be there for the next 20 years. Yeah. So it's time for me to put you know, big girl pants on and choose another platform to make a positive impact for people's lives and it's not lunging.

Will:  

Well, thank you for that. I think that is a wonderful place for us to finish up. So Susan, thank you so much for coming on the show. It's been great to you. And we will share the worksheet that we've created together with every listener so that they can kind of work through their own strengths and find out what they can lean into to bring more joy to their teaching.

Susan:  

Good luck, you guys. You're amazing. Thank you,Will! Bye.

Will:  

Thanks for listening to my interview with Susan. Both coming from Les Mills, Susan and I have very similar backgrounds and training when it comes to delivering group fitness experiences. But the one thing that we've both seen is that so many instructors get caught in the weeds of the delivery of the class trying to perfect their technique and losing the authenticity and charisma that the instructor has in the process. Now, probably one of my favorite quotes that I've ever heard from Susan is that in her 17 year career teaching at the top, not once in her life, did she ever have someone come up and say, Thanks for telling me to align my knees with my toes. And that's so true. People don't remember the technique. They remember how you make them feel. Now, if you can uncover and work with your unique strengths, this is going to be the key from going from being a good instructor to a great instructor. And that's exactly what our worksheet will help you uncover. So right now head to the show notes, download it and spend a little bit of your day working through this sheet and share with your friends. You'll be so glad that you did. 

Will:  

Now before I go, I just want to share a little bit about next week's episode. I'm going to be interviewing two amazing shift instructors, AJ and Jen. Now both started teaching virtually in March this year, and after a few hiccups and setbacks, both are absolutely owning the digital world. They're going to be sharing their mistakes, learnings and top tips on succeeding at virtual next week. So I'll see you then. Thank you for listening. If you're enjoying the show, don't forget to subscribe for all the latest episodes wherever you get your podcasts. And while you're there, please drop us a review. You can also get in touch with me at will@sh1ftfitness.com. I'm Will Brereton and you've been listening to Group Fitness Real Talk.